Revelations from SHADOWBRINGERS

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Erm, if anything, Emet-Selch's "true form" would be similar if not identical to the phantasmal Amaurotines, or otherwise his base Hades form (as his second Hades form is hopped up on power from other Ascian souls).

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I can only assume the Shades are only just Shades of the people since he is not powerful enough to fully reconstruct their actual Physical Appearance.

Rebuilding a entire city is one thing but to recreate a large amount of different people's physical appearance is something beyond his powers.

We most likely will get a much clearer view on what they look like later in the storyline since this will most likely also relate to the WoL's Origin story involving the Original Soul of WoL.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

I can only assume the Shades are only just Shades of the people since he is not powerful enough to fully reconstruct their actual Physical Appearance.

Rebuilding a entire city is one thing but to recreate a large amount of different people's physical appearance is something beyond his powers.

We most likely will get a much clearer view on what they look like later in the storyline since this will most likely also relate to the WoL's Origin story involving the Original Soul of WoL.

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Given the whole extreme conformity thing that was present throughout talking to them he probably did create them the way he usually saw them in public. He was the only one we could be said to have seen in a private setting.

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

Given the whole extreme conformity thing that was present throughout talking to them he probably did create them the way he usually saw them in public. He was the only one we could be said to have seen in a private setting.

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Yeah there is a quest that shows that even children are forced to wear these robes and that wearing something else is against their system and really frowned upon. (So a big no for individuality in that regards)

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Either way, interesting to learn that Varis wasn't just talking out his ass when he was ranting about the "original, perfect master race"... but if not for G'raha's intervention, Black Rose would have been used on his order. Not that it matters now, given Zenos got his body back and did him in!

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The more I think about things, the more I wonder if there's this weird cause/effect thing going on between shards and the Source. It feels like, if we hadn't gone to the first like we did, Zenos would have never stopped Varis from using the Black Rose at the designated time. Maybe Gaius and Estinien wouldn't have managed to take out most/all of the facilities making it, but as we pushed back the timeline for the First's fall (Emet-Selch specifically complains we are doing this), more and more events on the first seem to be popping up showing that the ability to use it is growing harder and harder, until the end, where anyone in charge actively willing to use the Black Rose is gone.

Now, this could just be how things look because of the storytelling, and without being able to see how things were going in other shards for other Calamities (Would the 1.0 WoL stopped Nael sooner if the Flood was stopped on that shard?) it's impossible to make any direct claims. Still an interesting thought to me.

While there might be more direct cause/effect things going on between the Shards and Source beyond the Calamity stuff the changes here are all due to time travel. I've already made my own thoughts on some of those possible changes earlier on in the thread.

Question regarding a line from a certain shade:

Do the pronouns in this line from Hythlodaeus depend on your character's gender or not? I can't tell given the context.

https://i.imgur.com/OycIKmH.png

I've noticed a lot of people have been saying "He" and "him" in that context, so I am guessing yes, Can't promise, though, I ran as a female.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Question regarding a line from a certain shade:

Do the pronouns in this line from Hythlodaeus depend on your character's gender or not? I can't tell given the context.

https://i.imgur.com/OycIKmH.png

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Yes the gender changes.

I'm kind of wondering since we know primals to summon take aether why do people think Hydaelyn is somehow different than other primals.

I don't mean personality - but I mean the means in which she operates. Obviously she has a personality that doesn't muster up negative tones, but she wasn't entirely straightforward either. Obviously she becomes weaker during each calamity - and not I particularly want them to happen (due to death)...but obviously it levels the playing field when they happen.

Urianger seems fit on poisoning the well with some of his statements during MSQ or at least food for thought, not just about Umbral and Astral aspects, but I distinctly remember him mentioning about a "what if" in regards to being tempered. At least Emet freely admitted that's exactly what happened and so far said that's the nature of primals.

I just wonder what is the endgame here, defeating all the Ascians and then what? She is gonna slumber?

Then of course there is the matter of the WoL and the souls, is it gonna become a desire to make ourselves "whole" or do we decide that we were better off being sundered"

The random dark though entered my mind that what if we were really just a giant farm. I mean obviously your caretakers want you to be at your healthiest so you can be most delicious :P

Granted she's been our helper but I still don't see how she would be different from any other primal that tempers their followers. I mean is it a play or allegory on society? From our perspectives of the tempered she's done good things? If she was created as a failsafe, I believe the same flaws in Zodiark can be found in her since she was summoned by the Ancients. I don't see how she suddenly becomes an exception in all this.

What if WE the WoL ARE the failsafe. Those that summoned her also put in the "Hear Feel Think" so that when the time comes we can remove ourselves from being tempered?

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

I'm kind of wondering since we know primals to summon take aether why do people think Hydaelyn is somehow different than other primals.

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My view on that:

Because she does not behave like normal primals do. She does not force people to be her servants, heck even those with the echo dont need to do her thing. Even now barely anyone even knows that she exists, which goes quite against what a lot of other primals did, because to exist they needed more people that pray and sacrifice to them.

And she is really old. Lost quite some of her powers thanks to the Ascians yet seemingly she does not take (as far as we know) immens amount of Aether. If the existance of Alexander alone would have been horrible for our realm, how can Hydealyn exist thousands upon thousands of years without destroying the planet? Of course we could later find out that all is a lie and she is eating everyone but then how would new life even be born? How can we as the WoL for example have all the souls of the rejoined shards combined in us if she ate them?

I also dont think that those who summoned her as the enemy to Zodiark would do this with the same methods. Maybe they found another way on how she can sustain herself without causing problems..because otherwise those summoners were idiots too..

And maybe a bad example but still one for me: Minfilia got her power, she was one with her, knows about everything and was even her voice for a time and yet is still on her side. Of course one could argue that she simply was tempered but if she only was tempered then, than that means that Hydaelyn does not temper otherwise which makes her a big difference to the other primals and even Zodiark himself.

All of this could of course be wrong and she could just be something evil..but other than one time not being 100% truthful to us, she has been shown as good.