Tanks that think they are DPS, just stop...

So I'm seeing a lot of people talking about Vit begrudgingly, but wouldn't the existence of Tenacity increase the value of Vit, if even a little? It's not as if Vit was useless before, it just had a ceiling of use, but if Tenacity continues to increase on gear, that bigger HP will go a longer way, increasing eHP as well as regular HP.

The solution seems simple (And honestly what I thought was already done), just increase the AP weight on Tenacity. Perhaps near equal to Str.

It's not that people dislike Vitality. From 3.2 until SB, tanks really liked it. The system worked precisely because gear improved both your HP and the effectiveness of your actions.

The problem that tanks have with Vitality under the present system is that the effectiveness of your actions does not scale with better right side gear. Vitality is very important, up until a point, but tanks shouldn't have to trade it off stats that have a bigger impact on performance in order to have more Vitality.

It's the same issue with Parry pre-SB. The act of parrying something is good. Tanks like it when it happens. But Parry showed up on tank gear at the cost of other stats which had a bigger impact on tank performance, like Crit, Det, and Skill Speed. You never saw the same complaints about Block, because Block was a shield property that did not come at the cost of other stats. As a result, stats like Parry, and in some cases, Accuracy, ended up being "dead stats" on gear that didn't contribute to your performance. The end result was that some gear pieces 10-20 ilvls lower were more powerful than their higher ilvl counterparts with more Parry and Accuracy, purely due to secondary stat weights.

The Vitality change revisits all of this, but worse. Your right side Vitality has no stat weight to it. In fact, in spite of being a secondary stat (and a poorly scaling one at that), Tenacity is more useful than Vitality, because it influences both damage and passive damage reduction, the latter of which has a much bigger impact on survival than raw HP. The problem with Tenacity is that it doesn't scale well, probably because you don't want players having large mitigation differences based on how they pick out and meld their gear.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

because you don't want players having large mitigation differences based on how they pick out and meld their gear.

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Why not? A tank that melds a tank stat should logically be much more tanky than someone that chooses to use STR, at the expense of taking, for example, 25-30% more damage on average that CD's alone shouldn't be able to accommodate.

Why do people complain even though most of the people forget, ignore, or just blame others about mechanics? Yes with the stat changes it's taking people time to adjust to the new setting, yes people think because they are 70, have some better gear they can ignore certain things and expect everyone to be on their same level. Specially when older content is ran and don't anticipate tank being under gear or may be new. From what I have experienced it falls on everyone. Tanks need healers and DPS, DPS need healers and Tanks, Healers need tanks and DPS. Overall Tanks try their best unless they are new ( which they should communicate ) or trolls who expect players to be in par with them. While the stat changes take time to adjust, You could try cutting some slack to some tanks. In raids tanks compete for enmity ( specially random groups) , which is kind of dumb if people don't communicate, and healers are to blame as well for not taking their main job seriously. ( Thank you for helping to DPS but please keep tanks / DPS alive ). Unless people do all 3 roles at some point, people will always have something to complain about. SO yes stats help, yes it's great people know mechanics, and NO tanks only think they are DPS if they are off tanks and no mobs are present, or just plain trolls who refuse to play their role properly.

This isn't a black and white situation. Every party is different. Every encounter is different.

One thing I learned back when I was tanking in WoW is that there is a time to turtle and a time to contribute to the damage. So the rule of thumb was to build up enough health and mitigation to where you felt comfortable then added equipment to increase your damage.

After that, you worked with your party to ensure your survival and enmity. Your party was mindful of their hate and you were aware of when you could throw in a few damage hits. In short, it was a team effort.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

This isn't a black and white situation. Every party is different. Every encounter is different.

One thing I learned back when I was tanking in WoW is that there is a time to turtle and a time to contribute to the damage.

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Your right, however the problem is people refuse to work as a team, ( for the most cases even when mobs are marked, didn't know counting was a huge problem. ) or they don't know how to switch target if enmity is being reached on current target. Not to insult anyone common sense but if you see a tank struggling, maybe try attacking one target all together and not split it, not everyone can tank. Also for any tanks out there ID your struggling USE MARKERS AND ASK FOR CO-OPERATION it's not brain surgery and no one is a mind reader. ASK for help if your having a hard time. Prep before hand Max potion or ether come in handy sometimes and are pretty easy to get.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Your right, however the problem is people refuse to work as a team, ( for the most cases even when mobs are marked, didn't know counting was a huge problem. ) or they don't know how to switch target if enmity is being reached on current target. Not to insult anyone common sense but if you see a tank struggling, maybe try attacking one target all together and not split it. NOT everyone can tank. Also for any tanks out there USE MARKERS AND ASK FOR CO-OPERATION it's not brain surgery and no one is a mind reader.

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Most DPS that never touched a tank a day in their life, wouldnt know what the enmity bars are. They probably think its a dps meter, tbh. Most healers that dont touch tanks probably didnt know throwing medica 2 on the party right as the tank was nearing the group of mobs was why they all started chasing that healer as well. Until they were told.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

Most DPS that never touched a tank a day in their life, wouldnt know what the enmity bars are. They probably think its a dps meter, tbh. Most healers that dont touch tanks probably didnt know throwing medica 2 on the party right as the tank was nearing the group of mobs was why they all started chasing that healer as well.

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Sounds about right, hence it's Tank's job to minimum communicate or teach them on why it's making things complicated., that or adjust to the situation if they have enough experience to do so. ( not many ). Personally if anyone is tanking and some one ask for help I will gladly help them or give them tips if they ask for it. IF they don't complain I call it out and give them a tip (normally if we keep wiping ). Now if people are really being unreasonable I vote kick after several warnings ( if I'm tanking ) or refuse to tank until person is replaced. Last resort vote kick me rather than me taking a penalty.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Sounds about right, hence it's Tank's job to minimum communicate or teach them on why it's making things complicated., that or adjust to the situation if they have enough experience to do so. ( not many ). Personally if anyone is tanking and some one ask for help I will gladly help them or give them tips if they ask for it. IF they don't complain I call it out and give them a tip (normally if we keep wiping ). Now if people are really being unreasonable I vote kick after several warnings ( if I'm tanking ) or refuse to tank until person is replaced. Last resort vote kick me rather than me taking a penalty.

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Sounds about right. Those examples sort of applied to me when i first was learning the game, as tank, but then when i levelled healer next then dps next i had a broader understanding of all of these things to be mindful about, like if i take hate from the tank i always walk up to them, for instance.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

Most healers that dont touch tanks probably didnt know throwing medica 2 on the party right as the tank was nearing the group of mobs was why they all started chasing that healer as well. Until they were told.

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Or that Medica 2 spam on a large group of party members can also tear aggro off a Tank pretty easily.

I think I'm still traumatized on some level by the number of healers who did this on Titan Hard and Extreme. Even more so by the number who were told WHY the Tank lost aggro, then proceeded to blame the Tank for it regardless.