PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

He's being diplomatic because it serves no benefit for the lead developer to tell players how to play, regardless of their whole. If you are going to keep echoing the sentiment healer DPS is entirely optional, I trust you don't complain about Ice Mages or tanks not using cooldowns? You can't have both ways. Either those players are bad/lazy or it's simply their preferred playstyle.

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Again, you aren't listening... Ice mages don't do damage. In a Damage role that's significant. A tank not using cooldowns is not doing what he can to stay alive, in a Tank role that is crucial. Healing in a healing role... that is all that is needed for you to keep people alive. I'm just saying to prove my point, so many excuses being made when the lead producer clearly states.. its not needed. Being diplomatic has nothing to do with it.

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Originally Posted by Tobalito

It is not ok to call a healer lazy or bad if they choose not to. They kept you alive, they did their job.

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lazy
adjective
1. unwilling to work or use energy.
characterized by lack of effort or activity.
showing a lack of care.

Sorry, but a healer that refuses to DPS when they could IS lazy by definition. And if they fail to create the ample openings to DPS in casual content, they are bad.
The fact that they did their job has no bearing on that matter. Yes they did their job, but their job is only a part-time job, because the devs made healing OP and easy. Don't be surprised people aren't going to treat you like you work 40 hours a week if you only work 8 a week. And that's actually the ratio we're talking about - healers can have around 70-80% cleric stance uptime in dungeons. Lazy and bad are the correct words to use here.

And if you want that to change, petition to SE that they make healing and tanking full-time jobs.

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Originally Posted by Tobalito

Again, you aren't listening... Ice mages don't do damage. In a Damage role that's significant. A tank not using cooldowns is not doing what he can to stay alive, in a Tank role that is crucial. Healing in a healing role... that is all that is needed for you to keep people alive. I'm just saying to prove my point, so many excuses being made when the lead producer clearly states.. its not needed. Being diplomatic has nothing to do with it.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...s_is_over_12k/

Yeah Ice mages do damage. Not very good damage, but damage nontheless.

Anyway I haven't been keeping up with this thread, I honestly didn't think people would discuss this so much on here but I do agree with healers should dps. I won't kick one for not dpsing but it's extremely lazy especially now that people won't have to stance dance.

The removal of cleric stance has essentially turned healer roles into dps roles (support roles) with green Job icons and very strong healing capabilities.

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Originally Posted by Tobalito

I'm just saying to prove my point,t.

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Prove what point? That overhealing is good or the fact when there is nothing to and you wont even hit some buttons to dps, will make it easier for a whole group? If adds die faster, makes the tank using less cds to keep himself easy to heal Or when dps runs out of tp on a big back of adds. Or when you do zurvan and there is ABOSLUTTELY nothing to heal before you fall off platform. When soar happens there is a chance few people die unless they don't screw up? Then again requires more healing. The most ironic thing is those healers who actually only heals are the ones who will never ever do a character growth og progress. I just was in a a11's where I actually dpsed a lot and kept EVERYONE ALIVE alone, because whm kept getitng killed. Or the other whm I had in a9s who overhealed insanly and had no MP left. You are just proving what resource you are to the group and you are a very bad one.

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Originally Posted by Tobalito

Again, you aren't listening... Ice mages don't do damage. In a Damage role that's significant. A tank not using cooldowns is not doing what he can to stay alive, in a Tank role that is crucial. Healing in a healing role... that is all that is needed for you to keep people alive. I'm just saying to prove my point, so many excuses being made when the lead producer clearly states.. its not needed. Being diplomatic has nothing to do with it.

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Correction! Ice Mages do crap damage, but they still deal damage. We are allocated 90 minutes for a dungeon. Therefore, so long as it's completed within that time frame, it's technically considered "successful." As for tanks. If we abide by the holy trinity, they are only meant to hold aggro. I can do that spamming Flash. No other job can literally do nothing and still be considered good. In fact, last night I ran Dun Scaith, where my co-healer had the healing aspect covered to such an extent I did not turn off Cleric once throughout the entirety of the second boss and barely dipped out during the third or fourth; just brief moments to cover high aoe damage. If I had chosen not to DPS, I would have been 100% useless for that second boss and upwards of 85% for the other two. Would you call me a good player when I'll spend more time alt-tabbing or making dinner than actually playing the game because two dedicated healers simply wasn't necessary per my example?

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Originally Posted by Raikki

So if I just do my 1-2-3 combo on DPS it's fine because Yoshi didn't say I had to do more? I mean, there's a 90 minute timer on the instance, it's ok if it takes 89:59 to clear it, we still accomplished the objective right?

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Already gave my response to this gotcha moment you're trying to throw my way. Lemme fix your comparison though, 123 combo on a dps only is like a healer using only cure and nothing else to heal.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

lazy
adjective
1. unwilling to work or use energy.
characterized by lack of effort or activity.
showing a lack of care.

Sorry, but a healer that refuses to DPS when they could IS lazy by definition. And if they fail to create the ample openings to DPS in casual content, they are bad.
The fact that they did their job has no bearing on that matter. Yes they did their job, but their job is only a part-time job, because the devs made healing OP and easy. Don't be surprised people aren't going to treat you like you work 40 hours a week if you only work 8 a week. And that's actually the ratio we're talking about - healers can have around 70-80% cleric stance uptime in dungeons. Lazy and bad are the correct words to use here.

And if you want that to change, petition to SE that they make healing and tanking full-time jobs.

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Again, im kinda done stating my opinion as this will just go back and forth. In the end this entire thread imo is incredibly hypocritical and unwilling to listen which I find hilarious.

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Originally Posted by Crysten

Don't let the Stone III hit you on the way out~

Seriously though, if you can't see the healing benefits of spamming Holy as a "half assed DPS" for 10 seconds then I don't know what to tell you.

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I know the benefits of it seeing as I did it all the time back when I was spamming ARF for my relic. My point here is that I don't see much point in me just spamming holy all throughout the dungeon while occasionally throwing out a heal. Yes I think that's not much more than being a half assed DPS. Power to you if you like that, but I'm tired of it. If I'm going to have to do that even MORE now, I figure I might as well do it full time on a job that does it a lot better, and SAM looked like a blast to play from the live letter.

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Originally Posted by Tobalito

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I don't think the lead developer would even bother creating more damage-making abilities for the healers if he truly felt that it wasn't necessary. He would just double down on all healing abilities. To be honest, they wouldn't even care to make healing damage be based on MND if they didn't care about healers doing damage. That doesn't make any sense.


And I don't fault you for wanting to just be healer. But if you are the healer in the dungeon, the tank is doing everything they can to mitigate damage so its easier on you, the dps is doing their rotations perfectly to maximize their damage so that the dungeon goes faster and putting much less stress on you as the healer, and you can't even do something so simple as throwing out some dots with a couple of Stone IV's during your down time? The game has made even easier for you to do such a thing, and yet you still refuse?

If that's you, you are doing your party a great disservice. The skill set is right there, the buttons are on your hotbar, yet you'd rather use 60% of your overall capabilities. That's just lazy.

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Originally Posted by ToasterMan

I know the benefits of it seeing as I did it all the time back when I was spamming ARF for my relic. My point here is that I don't see much point in me just spamming holy all throughout the dungeon while occasionally throwing out a heal. Yes I think that's not much more than being a half assed DPS. If I'm going to have to do that even MORE now, I might as well do it on a job that does it a lot better, and SAM looked like a blast to play from the live letter.

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Half assed?!? What even???? Do you even know how much damage a whm can put out with holy spam and assize??? They are almost on par with SMNs!!!

I vote for renaming the healer role into support...
And before someone chimes in and says, support is only buffing/debuffing:

support verb [ T ] (HELP)
​ to help someone emotionally or in a practical way