Class Reform info.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

One could argue that they've always been in place and that the armory system as a whole has been a system based around reliance on other jobs other than your main.

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True.. but they are making the sub-classes more restrictive in terms of how many action from the sub class you can put on your main. So in a since they are making it a true sub-class/job mechinics

If you guys look @ how many actions each class learns it is really not a lot, take PGL for instance on the road to 50 we learn 25 skills that's 1 skill every 2 lvls, but here the thing they are doing seems they are trimming the fat off alot of classes so to speak.

I always thought it was quite stupid and lazy of the old dev team to have version 2 of everything damn near, Victimize, hay maker, jarring strike, second wind, blindside, concussive blow, and others from the PGL skill set that are dbl skills of the same move, so only having 15 skills does not seem that bad at all.

I personally think that cure magic should stay tiered, but offensive magic I'm kinda 50/50, if they do not fix spirit dart and the like then I am gonna always think sometimes "I could have lived if I could cast that lower tier spell to kill cause I did not have enough mp"

Edit: Mage classes is the only thing that worries me about the 15 actions to 50.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Really, the "what if they increase the level cap?" argument is, at this time, completely irrelevant. A level cap increase was not announced in the roadmap for 2.0, which means that such a thing is at LEAST a year and a half way.

In that time, they could add a fourth bar for skills, an item specific skillbar, delete actions, add actions, or any other number of things before even reaching a level cap increase.

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actually he said in live letter that it was a possibility any time after 1.21, though he didnt commit to it.

Also most of these plans are being laid very specifically with 2.0 in mind. (IE skill animations for the stuff he does now, not being fully implemented till around 2.0) So is he saying we basically wont be getting any more skills even after 2.0? That doesnt sound like a bright future.

b

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Originally Posted by Estellios

@Physic: It depends on how they split abilities among classes. People with only 1 class should always be weaker than those that have multiples, but if classes are focused enough they should be self-sufficient. Looking at Gladiator now, it needs abilities from 3-4 other classes in order to be able to tank anywhere within the realm of "effectively", which it is supposed to excel at. If the abilities it gets natively allows it to tank without much trouble, it can instead use the other abilities to focus on self-healing, dealing damage, or other utility stuff/personal playstyle stuff, but you would be able to solely do that one function just by having gladiator.

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this should actually not be the case, the more tanking skills they put on gladiator, the more incapable it will be of soloing or any other role, which is supposed to be the advantage of the class portion.

With even more tanking and enmity skills using up glad's 15 slots, they will get even weaker in solo. How will a glad solo anything with even less damaging skills?

yes, in all honesty most melee and non mages had approximately 15 abilities, the second tiers took up most of the other stuff. but for mages it reeeallly is crazy.

The combo they were showing sounded like Gladiator-based stuff, what with the enmity bonuses. Gladiator's new abilities could easily be adding enmity on top of damaging skills/combos instead of adding more provokes.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

If I may add yet another thought.

At Level 50, the maximum number of cross-class actions you can equip is 10.
At Level 30, a class learns it's 10th action.

Therefore, the bare minimum a Level 50 character should level a secondary class is 30 in order to "mathematically" not be gimp. That doesn't necessarily mean those 10 actions from the secondary class are particularly desirable. It's just the minimum. In essence this creates a sub-class system similar to the sub-job system from FFXI (e.g. CNJ50/THM30). The primary difference being that it allow for more granular sub-classing of actions (sub-actions??), for increased customization.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Another words... they are kinda bringing back subjobs.. in a way..

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Originally Posted by Alerith

One could argue that they've always been in place and that the armory system as a whole has been a system based around reliance on other jobs other than your main.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

True.. but they are making the sub-classes more restrictive in terms of how many action from the sub class you can put on your main. So in a since they are making it a true sub-class/job mechinics

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If they can get the balance right, this would be very nice. In FFXI, I always wanted to have just one or two abilities from a 3rd sub-job. This new system would allow you to do just that, just to a slightly more limited degree. Only actions, not traits.

So a character would have to be a GLA to have Ambidexterity, because traits are not cross-classable. No other class will ever have that trait, no matter how many GLA actions they cross-class to it. I'm not sure, but I think that has a certain appeal.

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Originally Posted by Vingtdeux

Pure speculation, but I believe the 5 available spots left on the skill bar are tied to future cap increase.

Following the same pattern of skills acquired every 4 leves (and considering there won't be additional cross-class skills spots available), that'd mean there's enough room to get to level 70 before reaching 20 skills + 10 cross-class.

They already stated that switching to a job will reduce which cross-class skills you can use or the number of them, so they will prolly fit among the 10 cross-class skills spots available.

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The five additional Spots are for Dragging Items to the Action Bar. This was explained in the break down of the screen shot during the live Letter

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Originally Posted by Sorel

If they can get the balance right, this would be very nice. In FFXI, I always wanted to have just one or two abilities from a 3rd sub-job. This new system would allow you to do just that, just to a slightly more limited degree. Only actions, not traits.

So a character would have to be a GLA to have Ambidexterity, because traits are not cross-classable. No other class will ever have that trait, no matter how many GLA actions they cross-class to it. I'm not sure, but I think that has a certain appeal.

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alls i can still say to that is fleet of foot is way to big to be lancer only.

Some of these issues may be solved with their class skill plans, but until i see it, i have to say there is some major hurdles here. Overall the plan isnt absolutely bad, but it has some decent sized issues imo

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Originally Posted by Physic

actually he said in live letter that it was a possibility any time after 1.21, though he didnt commit to it.

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I remember this as well, honestly I hope that lvl caps are still far away. The game is still underdeveloped and so is the current end-game content to keep people busy at 50, I think they should focus on that rather than raising the cap even if it's just 5 levels. however what is more important is that there shouldn't be a much larger gap between the established players and the ones that are going to be recruited with the 2.0 and PS3 launch. I think that a better option than raising the cap would be to add more classes and jobs closer to 2.0. But for all we know the jobs that are already on the way might also come with a lot of job related content to keep us busy.

Well, let's hope they fix Gladiator's enmity gain then because otherwise this (having no Intimidation to keep up the lack of DD and stuff) will just push it aside even more as tanking class.

Goodbye Prime Conditionin and Out of Sight for everyone. ; ;