Difficulty format for Normal and Savage will remain in 4.0

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Originally Posted by Ibi

We do actually already have a loose precedent for this in the rewards from The Feast's ranked mode.

Admittedly it's hard to say that's hard evidence that they'd move in that direction, because PvP's rewards in general are even less impactful than Savage's due to the item level caps, but it does show that they're willing to institute glamour sets as the ultimate reward for a particular type of content.

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I actually wonder if they might do something like this for Palace of the Dead... They mentioned a Leaderboard for Floor 101-200 I think... Create an automated reward system (because Feast didn't have one, we had to wait for a GM to send out our rewards...), have some metric to measure success in the Palace, then rank players up based on that on a weekly/monthly basis... Send out some tokens for us to farm or something... Could be interesting...

Probably just going to get "Grind Aetherpool to +99 to exchange for an i255 weapon" or something instead though... However a Leaderboard alone could peak my interest... Depends how the community as a whole embraces that though, it'll probably end up the same as the Lodestone Grand Company leaderboards, as in I've just reminded a bunch of people those even exist... Would be quite nice to aim for #1 at Palace of the Dead, then defend that position... More likely to get me interested in the content than some sh*tty item level I don't need...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Probably just going to get "Grind Aetherpool to +99 to exchange for an i255 weapon" or something instead though...

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That'll be from 51-100.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I actually wonder if they might do something like this for Palace of the Dead... They mentioned a Leaderboard for Floor 101-200 I think... Create an automated reward system (because Feast didn't have one, we had to wait for a GM to send out our rewards...), have some metric to measure success in the Palace, then rank players up based on that on a weekly/monthly basis... Send out some tokens for us to farm or something... Could be interesting...

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There's some people that the leaderboard thing will appeal to, but it's probably going to be its own niche group (like a lot of the game's content) and most people won't pay it much attention, especially if there's nothing else tied to it.

In addition to the gear sets that you got for beating a certain threshold, I think WoW's Challenge Mode dungeons each had a unique title associated with them that the group currently holding the record (per server, maybe?) could use, and lost once someone beat their time, which was a fun perk.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

This is actually part of the old school MMORPG tradition. It's honestly what got a lot of us to do the difficult raids and spend more time setting them up than actually doing them lol... a lot more time. I personally don't see it as a bad thing, since effort should be rewarded accordingly. Given that ilvl currently has next to no real value to have the best of, it's not exactly testament of the difficulties endured. As you might think I'm implying, I am indeed saying that prestige, bragging rights, and flaunting hard to get things is part of nearly all real hardcore raiders agenda. While there are always a few exceptions, the rest of the bunch absolutely love flaunting their achievements as time goes on or showing off new gear.

But hey, that's exactly how most casual players are too. They love being noticed for their vanity choices or achievements, it's not much different. Hence, why it'd actually upset you to know someone else has access to something you don't, even though you technically do have access (you're not literally barred from getting it).

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Yea I get you, and I'm generally not even against that, it's actually just something that particulary doesn't seem to fit with me in this game, which has to do with how gear progression in this game works. I also don't mind if it's single items that are totally OP and only a few hardcore people can get it. but here we simply don't have enough choices to alternate our gear. In the previous game I played I had different sets for different playstyles/dungeons, you'd hit max level and just have a bunch of choices, whereas here we just have whatever is the highest iLvl, with a little bit of freedom to go for a little more of this or that, always having to trade in iLvl for these choices.
If everybody generally has 10 different choices I really don't mind if there are a few people with 11 choices, but if there is basically only one choice it kind of becomes a big deal if there is a small elite group of people that has 2 choices.

Blah, this whole talk about the gear progression in this game left me pretty frustrated actually, because I totally get where raiders are coming from as well.

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Originally Posted by yexie

I'll be honest, if raiders would actually get REALLY awesome completely newly designed gear SETS I'd be upset (simply because of all the recycling that happens with gear in general), but higher iLVL plus maybe a super shiny i245 weapon or something I'd find totally acceptable.

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The glamor debacle could easily be solved by SE if they consolidated it entirely and made it so you could glamor any armor piece in the game without actually having it. Heaven forbid they streamline this system that is getting wildly out of hand, AND give EVERYONE access to anything they wanted (glamor wise). Problem solved in terms of unique looks.

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Originally Posted by zosia

Well, to answer you question, for me at least, exclusive rewards.

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This puts the lie to all the statements I keep seeing about raiding for the challenge and not rewards.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Then why have normal mode if you can just "Watch the cutscenes" the "Story is the Reward" is why all the people unable to even play the original coil are grasping so desperately to the story they get.

It feels cheap to watch the cutscenes on youtube because you didn't earn them.

Coil felt accessible to anyone willing to try and earn the story, Savage Alex is a different beast from standard coil at least in my experience.

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Just to comment on this, albeit a bit late. That feeling only stretches so far. The average gamer typically will either lose interest entirely or go to Youtube if frustrated to the point where it's no longer fun. For most people, Savage isn't fun, but an enormous source of frustration. Gating the story behind it won't motivate more people to do it. You'll just risk those players unsubbing instead of raiders. To use a friend of mine as an example. There is no incentive I could offer her to play Bloodborne. She would despise it because, for her, that level of difficulty simply isn't fun. She'll watch, but she won't touch it herself.

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Originally Posted by Sparktacus

The glamor debacle could easily be solved by SE if they consolidated it entirely and made it so you could glamor any armor piece in the game without actually having it. Heaven forbid they streamline this system that is getting wildly out of hand, AND give EVERYONE access to anything they wanted (glamor wise). Problem solved in terms of unique looks.

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So you would kill one of the game's most powerful motivation tools to do content? Okay

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Just to comment on this, albeit a bit late. That feeling only stretches so far. The average gamer typically will either lose interest entirely or go to Youtube if frustrated to the point where it's no longer fun. For most people, Savage isn't fun, but an enormous source of frustration. Gating the story behind it won't motivate more people to do it. You'll just risk those players unsubbing instead of raiders. To use a friend of mine as an example. There is no incentive I could offer her to play Bloodborne. She would despise it because, for her, that level of difficulty simply isn't fun. She'll watch, but she won't touch it herself.

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And where is this idea coming from that raiding is the only content in the game? 95% of this game is catered to the casual market. If raiding is the one thing that they feel they could not do, then besides that and Primal EX, every piece of content is catered towards casual for them to play. I have a hard time believing they would leave over it. It certainly wasn't an epidemic in 2.0. Raiders on the other hand will easily leave over poor raid structure like we have currently and they have. Midcore scene is in really bad shape and some notable world/server first groups have disbanded.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

So you would kill one of the game's most powerful motivation tools to do content? Okay

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There are so many ways that this system could be implemented without being a detriment, since you could not think of one let me share one with you. Here is an idea for you, tokens available from only doing certain content. And you know how SE loves their tokens. This is a simple example but you can let your imagination run wild, go ahead try it, its fun.

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Originally Posted by Sparktacus

There are so many ways that this system could be implemented without being a detriment, since you could not think of one let me share one with you. Here is an idea for you, tokens available from only doing certain content. And you know how SE loves their tokens. This is a simple example but you can let your imagination run wild, go ahead try it, its fun.

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People find the easiest content that drops the most tokens. Buy item. Done. All other content disregarded for this.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

People find the easiest content that drops the most tokens. Buy item. Done. All other content disregarded for this.

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okay, because you don't like the example given doesn't mean another can't take its place or it can't be refined further to fit whatever you are personally looking for. Also there is a fine line, and the glamor game will eventually in itself not be enough motivation for many. If you think it can last forever I will disagree here. It simply is not enough to sustain and engage the masses permanently.