As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

No, it's the tank's job to keep emnity on all mobs, your example is bad. Besides, if you have a problem with someone else's play style and it's not causing anyone to wipe then YOU can leave and eat the 30 minute penalty.

Besides, I'm not even concerned about the issue anymore, I'm worried about the lack of compassion to other players since all people seem to care about is "BUT MAH DEE PEE ES." It's just a game, a 30 minute run vs a 20 minute run won't kill you.

Also refer to this thread if you think all healers should DPS and heal:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...xpert-Roulette

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I said earlier there are times when healers not dpsing is fine. However it does bother me when its obvious someone isn't trying, like my lazy dps example, which you conveniently ignored. 30% of healers actions are dps. Use em. Stop defending the lazy.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

Yoshi-P commented on this a bit.



So according to Yoshi-P, all of the game is designed to be beaten without a Healer having to DPS, but the option is there for people that do want to utilize it. If you're queueing for Duty Finder and your Healer is keeping everyone alive, that should be equal to a Tank consistently keeping enmity the entire run, or a DPS doing consistent damage throughout the run.

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Holy mother of out of context. They said that Savage content is designed around not needing Healer DPS because it would be over-tuned. There's no Savage raid group in the game that at least one healer isn't DPSing (the SCH).

Further, they even changed the Hall of the Novice text (originally it said nothing about DPSing) to incorporate text regarding damaging the enemies when no one needs healing. Why would they do that? Because too many healers were bad.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

A bit of it is true, it doesn't hurt to sometimes go out of your way, but as a option when the situation presents itself, but let's apply that same mandatory optionless logic to DPS.

"If you're a MNK and are not using Blood Bath to heal yourself, you're a bad MNK."
"If you're a DRG and are not using Foresight when taking physical damage of any kind, including physical AoEs, you're a bad DRG."
"If you're a BLM and are not using Eye for an Eye on the Tank, you're a bad BLM."
"If you're a NIN and are not using Keen Flurry, you're a bad NIN."
"If you're a BRD and are not using Second Wind, you're a bad BRD."

That is why this line of thinking doesn't work. Regardless of how potent Healer DPS is, it would be a double standard to expect this and not expect all of the things I mentioned because you can do them when the opportunity presents itself.

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OMFG, you are totally, AGAIN 100% missing the point. We are NOT TALKING ABOUT OPTIMAL DPS HERE. We're saying DO JUST A LITTLE BIT PRETTY PLEASE.
Seriously, we are not talking about 100% perfect stance dancing rotations and using all appropriate buffs and damage at opportune times. We're just saying don't stand there with your thumb up your butt at all times.
That's it. Don't stand around with your thumb up your butt. Again, all we're asking is: Don't stand there with your thumb up your butt.

I don't give two hoots about if you've used Swiftcast Shadowflare and got all your DOTs up and Aetherflow-Bane'd.
I'm just saying, please just throw out a few BIO's after you Adlo at the beginning of the fight (preferably the BIO's are in cleric stance).

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

Holy mother of out of context. They said that Savage content is designed around not needing Healer DPS because it would be over-tuned. There's no Savage raid group in the game that at least one healer isn't DPSing (the SCH).

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Seems you took what I said out of context, actually. I am aware Savage groups use DPS as Healer, I mean it's the hardest content of the game. However, the game is still designed at the end of the day to complete without it as stated by Yoshi-P himself. You can't spin it any other way.

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

OMFG, you are totally, AGAIN 100% missing the point. We are NOT TALKING ABOUT OPTIMAL DPS HERE. We're saying DO JUST A LITTLE BIT PRETTY PLEASE.
Seriously, we are not talking about 100% perfect stance dancing rotations and using all appropriate buffs and damage at opportune times. We're just saying don't stand there with your thumb up your butt at all times.
That's it. Don't stand around with your thumb up your butt. Again, all we're asking is: Don't stand there with your thumb up your butt.

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No, I actually understand the point quite well. I'm referring to DPS period, never once did I refer to hardcore DPS. It is not mandatory to utilize DPS as a Healer in a run, for you to mandate that on someone else, I hope you are also doing all you can as a party member by using all of your defensive options as a DPS as stated in my previous post, if not then you are having a "thumb up" somewhere not assisting the Healer by mitigating damage as DPS when it is possible to do so.

That's the mentality I have an issue with. If you want someone to do something outside their initial role, understand that is your personal want, and if the other person decides they do not want to do it, respect that and do not shame them.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

"If you're a MNK and are not using Blood Bath to heal yourself, you're a bad MNK."
"If you're a DRG and are not using Foresight when taking physical damage of any kind, including physical AoEs, you're a bad DRG."
"If you're a BLM and are not using Eye for an Eye on the Tank, you're a bad BLM."
"If you're a NIN and are not using Keen Flurry, you're a bad NIN."
"If you're a BRD and are not using Second Wind, you're a bad BRD."

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If you're a BLM and are not using Apoc on the tank, you're a bad BLM.

If you're a NIN and are not using Shadewalker or Goad when needed, you're a bad NIN.

If you're a Bard and are not using Foe Requiem, you're a bad Bard.

I just gave 3 examples that are much closer to the healer DPS analogy than the examples you gave. Want me to go on?

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

Seems you took what I said out of context, actually. I am aware Savage groups use DPS as Healer, I mean it's the hardest content of the game. However, the game is still designed at the end of the day to complete without it as stated by Yoshi-P himself. You can't spin it any other way.

No, I actually understand the point quite well. I'm referring to DPS period, never once did I refer to hardcore DPS. It is not mandatory to utilize DPS as a Healer in a run, for you to mandate that on someone else, I hope you are also doing all you can as a party member by using all of your defensive options as a DPS as stated in my previous post, if not then you are having a "thumb up" somewhere not assisting the Healer by mitigating damage as DPS when it is possible to do so.

That's the mentality I have an issue with. If you want someone to do something outside their initial role, understand that is your personal want, and if the other person decides they do not want to do it, respect that and do not shame them.

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I do all I can at all times, but again somehow you think that ANY DPS AT ALL as a healer is equivalent to maximizing every other class ever.
As a SCH, I consistently get the the top or near the top DPS wise along with keeping everyone alive, now that I finally unlocked Stoneskin it's even easier. As a BLM, I get the top DPS and use Apoc and Virus. As a NIN I get near the top DPS and use Shadewalker on the Tank so they can stay in DPS stance longer and Goad on any of my TPless friends and Trick Attack whenever it's off cooldown.
I also heal myself whenever it's off cooldown and I need a bit of healing.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

That's the mentality I have an issue with. If you want someone to do something outside their initial role, understand that is your personal want, and if the other person decides they do not want to do it, respect that and do not shame them.

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It's not outside their initial role. FFS, the Hall of the Novice bloody tells you to DPS when no one needs healing. They even changed the text to add that.
It's the I have a Green Icon so I can stand around doing jack squat 90% of the time and be lazy is the attitude I have a problem with.

If they can't even do what the Hall of the Novice says, (DPS when no one needs Healing) they should either learn a class they can play properly, or go play another game.

It's pretty sad, when a level 60 BLM/NIN decides to try out SCH and consistently is better than most other healers despite having zero experience.
I've had players get mad at me because they're DPS and I out DPS them.

I was apparently top 4 DPs throughout a weeping city run this morning, as white mage. According to the parse, I also had 77% overheal (though I'm pretty shitty with estimating how much healing I need in that raid). We had 3 scholars who refused to do any damage. Pathetic. Now I know to never queue up as Ast in there again. People are gonna be too terrible for my cards to be worth more than Assize/fluid aura

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

I said earlier there are times when healers not dpsing is fine. However it does bother me when its obvious someone isn't trying, like my lazy dps example, which you conveniently ignored. 30% of healers actions are dps. Use em. Stop defending the lazy.

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It's already been said before, but if healers didn't have damaging skills what about quests? Would we just heal the enemy to death?

My issue isn't about if you SHOULD DPS as a healer, of course you should DPS, standing around doing nothing during combat is could reproductive.

My issue is with the people who say you HAVE to DPS. If I'm in a new duty and I'm uncomfortable with the content and the damage patterns I might opt out of dpsing until I get the gist of it.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

It's already been said before, but if healers didn't have damaging skills what about quests? Would we just heal the enemy to death?

My issue isn't about if you SHOULD DPS as a healer, of course you should DPS, standing around doing nothing during combat is could reproductive.

My issue is with the people who say you HAVE to DPS. If I'm in a new duty and I'm uncomfortable with the content and the damage patterns I might opt out of dpsing until I get the gist of it.

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There's no excuse for not throwing out a DOT at the beginning of a pull no matter what the dungeon is. There is no pull where the Tank should die in less than three GCD's. Which is the amount of time it takes to throw out 2 DOTs, Switch out of Cleric and pop a Lustrate if necessary. There's never not a time you can't do that.
If they're being super squishy and you're having a tough time keeping them alive, that's the only time it's really acceptable to not DPS, but that's not what we're talking about. If you're having a hard time keeping a Tank alive, you're always casting. We're just talking about the times when the Healers are literally doing nothing, and that's what's not okay.

You are all missing the point. We're not talking about the times that Healing is super tough. We're not talking about maximizing your DPS potential. We're talking about all the times you're not casting anything and standing there doing nothing.