So anyone else tired of grinding tomes weekly for gear?

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Originally Posted by Cherie

I'm kind of curious, the people who are 100% cool with the system how it is, how long have you been playing?

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I've been playing since the Beta came out and I still enjoy myself
I do have to say that I've been gone for a couple of months due to RL things, so I didn't really get into the whole poetics phase
Sometimes I do feel like the game gets grindy, but when I feel that way, I just go off to gather or craft a bit, maybe hang out with friends
For me it also helps that my FC does a lot of stuff. We're not totally into going for Seph ex or anything, but we do slowly try to catch up with savage content. From time to time we even do some "old" content, like coil or ex primals, just for the fun of it or to farm some gear / songs / aetherstones, or to get a clear for someone who hasn't done it yet

i've been playing since beta, didnt expect this game to fail so miserably into a repetitive loop of farming with lockouts. Im pretty much done with the game. Started playing Black desert online, doubt i'll come back to this stupid system. Only thing i am annoyed is that i always supported Square enix, i payed for 6 months right before 3.2, i shouldnt have. Been grinding same pattern and content for years, it became so stupid and as soon as you put your nose out and check other games you realize how bad was the spiral you were caught into.

On many aspects and overall Xiv 1.0 might have had a better outcome. This? This is just like an apple store game, that what have become. Sadly it has an amazing graphic, but the content and how they keep moving with this system in place is just the worse i've ever experienced. No more.

Yeah it's pretty exhausting.

I wish raids and trials gave more tomestones, so that way i wouldn't have to spam 2 dungeons every day to cap, and could do the things i like more.

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Originally Posted by Adire

Lots of complaining, yet the same people complaining continue to subscribe and cap tomestones anyways.

So the amount of care necessary for this issue at the moment? 0.

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This logic is riddled with fallacies, and implies that someone should quit over a minor grievance with the game, despite liking many other aspects.

Most people complain about things that they care about, otherwise they would unsubscribe without a word.

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Originally Posted by Aarik

Hey Adire, question for ya. Where else are we able to express ourselves to SE?

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You're able to best express yourself with your wallet, like any paying customer. Official forums are a battleground of angry people of the vocal minority venting hot air, SE (like most game companies) are aware of this, and as such only take it so seriously. The official forums also require an active subscription (unless you stay logged in apparently? I've always lost my ability to post after 14 days of not being subscribed. In any case, most people posting are recently subscribed I imagine), so most of the complainers here aren't any real reason for concern on their part.

If player numbers were to drop, then they'd have more reason to pay attention to the people raging on the forums.

I also find it interesting that you claim there are "VERY few" people who have played longer than 1-1 1/2 years posting on the forums. That's not exactly a trend I've noticed O.o. In fact every poster after your post up to mine has played longer.

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Originally Posted by Averax

Yeah it's pretty exhausting.

I wish raids and trials gave more tomestones, so that way i wouldn't have to spam 2 dungeons every day to cap, and could do the things i like more.



This logic is riddled with fallacies, and implies that someone should quit over a minor grievance with the game, despite liking many other aspects.

Most people complain about things that they care about, otherwise they would unsubscribe without a word.

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Is that so?

You wouldn't think it's a "minor grievance" judging by the sheer enthusiasm, vitriol, and threats to unsubscribe people are giving off in this topic.

I think people should learn to use the word fallacy correctly instead of throwing it around in every post.

But I do partially agree with you. It is somewhat a minor grievance. Which is why SE shouldn't care since people will continue to give them money anyways. Why change a thing when the playerbase is satisfied enough to continue giving you their money? The way tomestones are done in this game guarantee they will get recurring subscriptions so long as there is not a high degree of hatred for the system present in a large group of people.

That's my argument, and it's the argument that all businesses with profit as the foremost goal will use. So no, there are no "fallacies" here. Unless a business being business-minded is a fallacy.

I cap every week just through normal gameplay, so I don't really notice.

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Originally Posted by ToniRomo

I cap every week just through normal gameplay, so I don't really notice.

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That's the other thing. People make out like you have to spam dungeons to cap. One expert roulette per day is enough....

You can cap through actually playing the game at a casual pace. True grinding is unnecessary. There really is no problem here.

(comment directed at the people complaining in general, not you ToniRomo)

Its not about having to aquire tombstones. Its about how they are aquired. Theirs literally no creativity, its a faceroll and the gating with gear lifespan problems makes no sense. Im not really fond of savage and the craftable isnt worth the gil cost due to lifespan leaving some people choosing only tomes.

Im not sure why you seem to think se only makes decisions based on business. There is alot of stuff in this game that the playerbase asked for from their own ideas. Guess what... the lore primal gears was one of those. They could have said no. Just like they can keep rolling the same system here or if we are lucky enough, they will consider us. Is it about business, probably not. They could care less if a few people threaten to quit like you say, they could also be interested in giving it a try. Im pretty sure this is how diadem came to be to since it was pretty much an fc thing. It still needs work and added onto but it could be something great.

God yes I am!
I picked up crafting and gathering to try to break it up but the fact that all this does is eventually lead me to another grind is a little disheartening.

I think bc of the failure of ffxiv 1.0 devs are terrified of doing anything outside of the box. They're so scares to think a little they rather rinse and repeat. Can't blame them tho. None of us are unsubbing any time soon

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I'm not entirely sure of the point you're trying to make here :X While a lot of gear/items in XI did take a good chunk of time, it was still incredibly worthwhile because those items were still used for endgame. With XIV, you get spend months gearing your character, and then in about 6 months, you get to do it all again!

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My point was that it's a different model, and if you're going to highlight the upsides (gear remains viable longer) it's worth also mentioning the drawbacks (upgrades are very infrequent and acquiring them is usually vastly more time-consuming).

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

There is no real substance there, and no real character growth or improvement.

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I guess that depends on what you think the words "growth" and "improvement" mean. You're objectively, measurably stronger at i220 than you were at i180, for example.

In FFXI, on the other hand, it was a very real possibility that someone who had even moderate luck with drops could find themselves with lesser gear than someone who'd been level 75 for a considerably shorter period of time, but who'd had much better luck. In fact, if you take relics/mythics out of the equation, the difference between someone in the best possible gear and someone in average gear was considerably smaller than the jump between tiers in FFXIV.

So, given that even when you were getting the very infrequent upgrades, the actual improvement was barely noticeable, that seems like a much better example of "no real character growth or improvement."

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Stats and ilvl are artificially inflated to keep people busy.

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Just like drop rates were artificially deflated in FFXI to keep people busy.

Same goal, different methodology.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

You're correct, I was in University, and had the time to invest over the course of many years to get my avatar geared and relevant (camping HNMs while writing term papers comes to mind; hours spent waiting for 15 mins of actual gameplay xD). Nowadays, I wouldn't be able to even scratch the surface of everything I did in FFXI; hence why I love how casual this game can be.

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Yeah, I'm right there with you. There were many times while playing FFXI that I'd still be playing when the sun came up. These days I'm having to get up to get ready for work before the sun comes up.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

That's a bit of a stretch.

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I would have thought so too, had I not done the math. I'll skew in favor of lower total man-hours here.

Let's assume that you're running the zones with just a dozen people (probably low for most Dynamis shells) and getting an average of 500 currency per run (probably high for most Dynamis shells, especially with that number of people). A finished Bravura requires 17,900 total currency.

17,900 currency at 500 per run is 35.8 runs. Each run is 3.5 hours, so each person would spend 125.3 hours total in Dynamis. With 12 people, that's a total of 1503.6 man-hours. And, like I said, that's assuming a low number of people and a high amount of currency, so that's very much on the low end of the scale.

The Thief's Knife is harder to run the math, because it's much more random-based. Sozu Rogberry, according to his old ffxiclopedia page, was a lottery spawn with a 1-8 hour respawn from a placeholder with a 16-minute respawn. Even if you were lucky enough to have him show up reasonably quickly after you started camping, and either had no competition or were good at claiming him consistently, the drop rate on the knife itself was relatively low; certainly under 10%.

So even assuming he showed up at the low end of his respawn timer, an average drop rate would have most people at 10+ hours. If you factor in longer respawns, competition, etc., that number can increase very quickly.

No, not really. Because I would hardly call doing 1 expert roulette each day 'grinding'.

It's honestly quite laughable to even call it grinding. Nothing in this game even compares to the countless annoyances and time-consuming garbage that was rampant in FFXI. You don't even have to do a roulette every day-you can miss 2 days and still cap very easily. ;)

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Originally Posted by heynowjose

God yes I am!
I picked up crafting and gathering to try to break it up but the fact that all this does is eventually lead me to another grind is a little disheartening.

I think bc of the failure of ffxiv 1.0 devs are terrified of doing anything outside of the box. They're so scares to think a little they rather rinse and repeat. Can't blame them tho. None of us are unsubbing any time soon

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Nothing grindy about crafting. You can cap those tomes in 30 minutes tops.

Gathering maybe, but that's only as grindy as you want it to be.