I'm all for clever localization but please don't just leave out important story.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

The text did -not- confuse me, I did -not- go read the Japanese version prior to being not confused. Reading the Japanese version only confirmed what I already had mentally constructed from the information - and the information was generally already straight forward, just not verbose and redundant.

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Same, I had never even seen the strict JP translation until OP linked it.

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Originally Posted by Miitan

The issue is that by seeing the Japanese text, you unconsciously form a type of confirmation bias where you recall things in such a way that it confirms your idea that the English text contains everything the Japanese text did.

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The issue is that you'll never believe us and take us on our word. Not that we unconsciously form a type of confirmation bias.

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Originally Posted by Miitan

My main issue with most of these rebuttals is that they are being made after having read the Japanese text...

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I like how you think we didn't understand the story until after we read the JP translation. Do you think the players (including yourself) so daft that we can't understand what's laid out in front of us, but not explicitly stated? Come on.

Much of the information presented in the JP Midgardsormr dialogue was already known beforehand. We don't need to be spoon fed the knowledge directly during the confrontation. Like the fact that he's testing us. The implication in the EN dialogue is there. I got it. Other people got it. If some didn't understand it they likely did after he says speaks in the cutscenes following the initial chat with him. If others still didn't get it at all, then I don't know what to say.

/endrant. Not gonna do another text wall...

I'll do a breakdown of each line side by side later on based on the contested information that is left and provided, and where the assumed inference fails by my assessment.

Again, I state that a lot of what the people are claiming is inference by Midgardsormor seems more like deduction based off of previous game knowledge and context.

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Originally Posted by Zantitrach

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You quoted one of these wrong you may want to check it, if you check the thread you'll see more people stating that they couldn't understand it, or they could by speculation, but missed some information that was omitted, even you recognize it in one of your post. I can understand how some stories are hard to understand, their goal is complexity and free interpretation, see the first par of The Matrix, but ffxiv is not designed that way, it was just a decision made by a single localization team. In fact i enjoy speculating and complex scripts, what i can't consent is the localization team changing personalities and omitting information, and in this case they have even created a lore that have been approved only by one of the teams.

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Originally Posted by Renik

You quoted one of these wrong you may want to check it,

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Looks fine to me, what do you see wrong?

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Originally Posted by Renik

but ffxiv is not designed that way, it was just a decision made by a single localization team. In fact i enjoy speculating and complex scripts, what i can't consent is the localization team changing personalities and omitting information, and in this case they have even created a lore that have been approved only by one of the teams.

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No, they haven't
I summed up everything there, its all the same. The ONLY difference is Misgardsormr doesn't come right out and say "I'm fracking testing you bro!" And instead says

EN: Thou didst profit much by Her grace, but no more.
The convenant binds me to thee.
I shall watch... listen... and wait.
Fight and struggle, if be thy will.
Man hath ever coveted that which lieth beyond his grasp.
I drink of Her body, and thence doth mine own find new life.
When it hath grown whole, the loyal and penitent shall rejoice.
The Dragonsong healdeth a beginning... and an end.

I understood that he was indeed just testing us. As COUNTLESS people have said, the JP translation just beats you upside the head with it e.g., "Hey! I'm testing you! Hey! Listen! I'm testing you! Hey listen! I'm testing you!"

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Originally Posted by File2ish

I like how you think we didn't understand the story until after we read the JP translation. Do you think the players (including yourself) so daft that we can't understand what's laid out in front of us, but not explicitly stated? Come on.

Much of the information presented in the JP Midgardsormr dialogue was already known beforehand. We don't need to be spoon fed the knowledge directly during the confrontation. Like the fact that he's testing us. The implication in the EN dialogue is there. I got it. Other people got it. If some didn't understand it they likely did after he says speaks in the cutscenes following the initial chat with him. If others still didn't get it at all, then I don't know what to say.

/endrant. Not gonna do another text wall...

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That's a nice strawman there considering I stated nothing of the sort. I stated that seeing the Japanese text will affect recollections of the original and that there was clearly information that was not present in the English text. To claim that I think people 'daft' because they don't want to have to speculate on what the text could mean (where they could potentially be wrong) and that all the information was clearly available to anyone who wasn't 'daft' seems to suggest that you believe yourself superior to everyone else because 'I got it'.

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Originally Posted by Miitan

The issue is that by seeing the Japanese text, you unconsciously form a type of confirmation bias where you recall things in such a way that it confirms your idea that the English text contains everything the Japanese text did.

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You really feel a need to believe that don't you? I wish I knew why. In any case, you should take those mindreading abilities on the road; could probably make a decent buck.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Again, I state that a lot of what the people are claiming is inference by Midgardsormor seems more like deduction based off of previous game knowledge and context.

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I'm very confused about why you seem to think this is a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Zantitrach

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You quoted me with one of your sentences instead of mine.

About the lore, i'm talking about the dragon language created by Koji, which resulted in the dry speech on Midgar, this kind of speech based on Koji's dragon language have not been used by the other teams, there are a few links in the first page to the post where Koji explains his lore, you may want to see it.

I did as well, i failed to fully understand the Japanese VA because he was using some weird words so i decided to go with the English text first, and after SPECULATING i realized he was testing us, but after listening to the Japanese VA a few times to fully get it, i noticed some information was missing in the EN text, you can speculate all you want, but they have omitted information in the English script, and the have changed his personality, by making him more bad than wise, they even changed the relation Midgar and Hydaelyn have.

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Originally Posted by Renik

they even changed the relation Midgar and Hydaelyn have.

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Plainly false. There is zero evidence to support this claim. As of now, we don't know what the specific relationship between the two is, no matter which translation you prefer.

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Originally Posted by Mholito

I sugest we wait and see how things pan out in part 2 before we make any judgement calls. Things might end up not being as different as we currently think.

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Well hopefully someone passed word of this thread to the EN localization team and they take our comments into consideration going forward. If not, well there's always fan translations. I just don't think having to rely on a fan translation to really know exactly what is going should be the goal of localization though and I hope Fernhalwes et al. understand this now if they didn't before.