Thats sort of my point though. When I am doing craft leve well above my level I equip a set of traits that increase my chances of success, and I have to pay attention. When I actually make stuff for sale then I equip a set of traits that improve my chances to HQ, and I have to pay attention again. When I am doing rank 30 leve at rank 39 I don't have to pay attention, I can just hit the enter key over and over. Mining on the other hand I have to pay attention to in order to suceed. I think the crafting mini game should be something that you can't look away from while you get your SP even if you are well above the craft level.Quote:
Originally Posted by weeble
Freely admitted I don't grind much. I find that if I do 8 leve for 1 craft per 36 hours it keeps me just below the fatigue point. If I get really good leve for my rank 2 days in a row I hit fatigue.
I think Peregrine made a good point. Churning out shoddy goods in bulk doesn't make someone a craftsman anymore than a kid chained to a sewing machine making cheap sneakers is a craftsman. The guy who hands carves the case for a Rolex watch from a block of steel is a craftsman. Craftsmen are a breed typified by pride in their work, and that is what we should aspire to be, but SE needs to adjust the system to encourage that kind of crafting imo. Currently people churn out electrum rings and NPC them for great SP, and that's not a good thing. That's FFXI style crafting and that created a market where raw materials cost more than processed materials which cost more than the goods made from them. In XIV mats are cheap and you can make gil selling goods.
EDIT: grammar and completed a thought.
Fall back and regroup: time for crafting autoleveller?
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06-20-2011, 11:48 AMMireille
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06-20-2011, 01:19 PMJunkPunch
I think this idea could work of it were an option for crafting. This idea is mainly for ranking up classes, for players short on time, and the lazy alike. It should be penalized to an extent ~15% or so in addition to fatigue if present. The ever present random number generator will also spit out failed synths. You would get a final report on the success and failed attempts at the end. There should also be a type of cool down timer, maybe 24 hours for every 250 synths. In addition I don't think a player should be able to profit from this form of grinding as well, any parts, finished items made will be forfeited to the moogle queen.
How would this idea play out for local leves? Would you still have to manually craft the items? Since I rank up most my crafting classes mainly though leves, till about r30 or so, I'd like to know. Hello I'm Bushido Brown, and I'm a trait, training, and ability junkie. I like to have all the guild marks for the items I want to buy, when I reach r36
Just an off topic question:
I'm pretty sure everyone know new moon is best for finished items. Would anyone like to share which moon phase is best for parts? I seem to have decent luck with the 1/2 moon going towards new moon. Sorry I forgot the moon phase name {>,<}
I appreciate any help, take care. -
06-20-2011, 01:27 PMPeregrine
No. No penalties whatsoever. Skipping this idiotic part isn't lazy. The people who sit there and spam enter over and over deserve nothing. No advantage. Nothing. It's a waste of human life. Period.
Crafters who can grind electrum rings are a dime a dozen, just like the rings they are so eager to mindlessly spam. They make up for a lack of skill or effort by simply trying 4 times longer than everyone else, and the kinds of crafters that XIV's system selects want it that way.
It's a bad system run by bad players, if they're even playing at all.
Not only do I want an auto leveller for mindless crafting progression, I also want an automated HQ materials maker.
I come home from gathering with 200 iron ore, and NQiron nuggets are worthless to me. Changing them to iron nugget HQ takes almost 2 minutes a synth because it's twelve to 20 activations per synth to bold.
That, too is a waste of life not worth a real crafter's time. Mindlessly hitting bold for 2 hours just to convert a stack of iron ore. Botters do this as well, knowing that real players grow tired of such a stupid activity. And they profit from it.
Remove those two pointless grinds from crafting, and crafting all of a sudden gets a whole lot more interesting to players who are actually interested in working a craft, not pressing a button over and over.
The drones will balk when their enter button is nerfed. It needs to be for the good of the game. You can't make up for a lack of skill, talent, or involvement by simply spending 4 times longer than anyone else is willing to. I know there is a character in Naruto who teaches young people they can become extraordinary and epic by spamming ordinary longer than anyone else, but they can't. It's not noble. It's just pointless and silly. -
06-20-2011, 01:53 PMJunkPunch
We are talking about grinding for ranking up classes right? You still act like you won't do the same thing when you decide to finish your goldsmith. You'll be watching Netflix while mashing enter like the reset of the so call dome a dozen crafters. You'll be churning out the same easy synths to get there, or are you holding out for this change or yours?
Don't forget Netflix was your buddy, and the only way you have obtained close to 2 r50 crafts. At the same stop being two faced, and bashing for others doing the same thing. You got your reward for it, now it's their turn.
And an automated HQ system??? Wow how much lazier do you want this game to get? I bet you want a toilet that messages your stomach, wipes your butt, powders it, flushes, and sprays fabreze..... -
06-20-2011, 05:42 PMAenarionWould you like to add an "Auto-Max-Rank-Everything" button in the character creator too? that way we can skip every single grind in the game, nobody wanted to play the game anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
Fix'dQuote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
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06-20-2011, 07:30 PMTiraelina
Do you actually have anything meaningful to add? These downright asinine comparisons to other games crafting with no idea how they actually function. Rank shouldn't be the end all of crafting, it's SE's fault that it is. Just because you can power level your crafting to max in Aion, WoW and even Lineage 2 doesn't mean your skills are anything but worthless still.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiraelina
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06-20-2011, 11:46 PMMortikhanYou are referring to a RL craftsman. A trained and capable master of his/her craft. A person who practiced his craft time and time again until he was recognized for his skill. People are not born master craftsmen...they have to work at it. That means they have to spend hours and weeks and years learning and perfecting their craft. The phrase "Practice makes perfect" is not a punchline. In order to reach that state of perfection they needed to make something over and over again in the same manner. When they got to the point where making a basic version of that item was no longer an issue then they started to make better quality versions of that item and that is when they are recognized for their effort and years of practice as well as their ambition to make a better product.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mireille
I made a point about this before in another post about possibly making the item you are crafting have levels to it as well. maybe 1-10 levels and you must craft it multiple times before you can even have a chance of getting +1-3 qualities. In order to progress through those ranks they will have to make a certain amount of each kind of quality of item. That might sound a bit confusing so let me break it up:
You are making a pair of Canvas Half Gloves:
Rank 1 - starting point
Rank 2 - make 5 pair of NQ - still can only make NQ
Rank 3 - make 10 pair of NQ - still can only make NQ gloves
Rank 4 - make 20 pair of NQ - can make +1 version of gloves
Rank 5 - make 5 pair of +1 - can still only make +1 - better chance of making +1 items
Rank 6 - make 10 pair of +1 - can now make +2 version
Rank 7 - make 5 pair of +2 - can still only make +2 - better chance of producing +2 items
Rank 8 - make 10 pair of +2 - can now make +3 version
Rank 9 - make 5 pair of +3 - limit +3 reached - better chance at producing +3 items
Rank 10 - make 10 pair of +3 - better chance of creating +1-3 items
I doubt this would ever be implemented because of the time consumption necessary to truly perfect a craft but it would definitely separate the crafters from the spammers. I think it would also make gathering more significant since people would be looking for better materials for getting higher ranks so it creates a better and more constant market since not everyone will be on the same page all the time.
Another way of doing it would be to link the ranks of the items available directly to the leveling of the craft itself. You would not actually get SP to level on. Instead you would have to craft a particular item to obtain ranks in it up to a maximum of rank 10 for each item available in that level range.
Example:
You are level 1 in a craft. You have 30 items you can craft between levels 1 and 10. You would need lets say 5 total ranks between those 30 items in order to obtain level 2. To get to level 3 you would need an additional 10 ranks among those items etc. The catch would be that some of those items would be simple (less materials) to do and some more complicated (diverse materials) so when you run out of ranking up on the simple things if you want to break the boundary into the next tier you would need to use other synths.
This breaks the cycle of mindless repetition and forces someone to pay attention or waste a lot more time getting the ranks done. Botting is no longer a major factor since you can only bot so long before you run out of ranks for that item. Additionally the crafting abilities become far more valuable since failure would be less efficient so you would use the abilities more often to succeed. This system also offers diversity in the crafters themselves. Do you want to max all of the ranks out for the crafts or just get what you need to proceed to the next rank? Will you be a pro at a few things or be mediocre in everything in that tier? It really boils down to the individual. -
06-21-2011, 02:18 AMPeregrineThey really don't. Rank shouldn't be the end all of crafting, especially when that just gives crafting over to cheaters at worst and mindless low-caliber insistant button-mashers at...well hell I don't know what's worse. Cheaters or unemployed uninitiated Netflix watchers who want treated like they're kings of something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiraelina
When you fail at everything else...FFXIV rewards hitting a single button for 250 hours. There's always that.
Until they take it away becuse that's just stupid. If people want to talk about being lazy, how about the failure of a lifestyle that likes this current system. Epitome of laziness. If *that* is working to you...hitting the enter button and expecting to be paid for it...I'm not the lazy one. I have better things to do. So do you.
Humans are too good for this failure of a system. Wake up, people. There is MMO tactics to string you along, and then there is simply a waste of human presence.
This is a waste of humanity. -
06-21-2011, 03:20 AMEnthy
/like for OP.
I seriously DO NOT believe SE can make an UNBOTTABLE FUN mini-game for crafting.
Not even gonna bother saying more... Peregrine has said it all. -
06-21-2011, 03:22 AMTheVediswell if botting is the main issueQuote:
Originally Posted by Enthy
lets make an auto leveler for combat too since thats heavily botted also