Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

How hard is it to to look where the tank is attacking, really?

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"How hard is it to throw an emnity combo on the second target you're engaged on, really?"

The problem was because of the nature of the situation, I couldn't tell based on HP bars what was getting "focused" until it was already on me. there were only 2-3 targets. You mean to tell me, as a DRG, i'm "supposed" to use Ring of Thorns or Doom Spike every time the tank engages more than 1 enemy before using my rotation? Just so I can see every emnity bar?
I'm not going to sit there watching animations or waiting on the tank to get 1 or 2 full emnity combos on every mob, either. They have tools for that, I don't. I don't get quelling. I get a single 3 minute cooldown.

I'm not going to say it was optimal what I did, but if I'm ripping hate after 1 rotation and it's because "i'm focusing the wrong mob", then... ok? I guess I'll demand my DPS to not touch anything until I get a full combo on every mob from now on when i tank? I need to keep a full mark order every pull?

All that said, is "focusing the wrong mob" out of 2 or 3 mobs in any way appropriate for harassment?

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

Um, most tanks will hold hate on every mob regardless. It shouldn't matter which one gets attacked.

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They were a level 60 DRG in the Vault with, according to them, a:

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level 58 unsynced DRK in level 56/58 HQ whites

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There are probably going to be enmity issues if the DPS knows what they're doing.

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Originally Posted by Pells

Don't encourage bad play.

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"Don't encourage bad play, but run yourself ragged as a levelling tank so DPS can attack whatever the hell they want and make pulls last longer."

The irony.

Obviously tanks focus the mobs with kill priority in anticipation of DPS burning them down, we're talking about regular pulls.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Honestly, you just sound like another one of those snotty DPS who gloats about their numbers and then looks down on newer tanks when they - surprise, surprise - can't keep aggro because you keep going after different targets?

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So you're giving the tank flak for them tanking a dungeon that literally pulls itself? No really it does the mobs engage you there's literally no need to pull lol all the tank had to do was use Unleash/DA+ Abyssal drain to keep threat while Scourging and cycling threat combos. Yeah it was a noobie tank but the tank got frustrated and didn't accept any criticism but no one gave any advice so there's nothing to work with there, most new tanks don't use their toolkits such as CDs or effectively how to use them.

As for saying someone's acting snobby how do you know? Were you there? None of us were we have just OP to go on saying they're a tank main could have at least responded the tank to say "okay well what can I do differently?" but they didn't and acted out on the DPS. Honestly if I pull threat in a dungeon my first impression is they're new or they don't tank much so I ask em, usually the response I get is "yeah I don't tank much and i'm kinda nervous" that's fine, then you get these tanks that just don't want any help.

Not defending or advocating anything just saying that's what I usually do with new tanks it never hurts to ask or give pointers but if they're unwilling to learn it's hard. I got booted from a party once because I dodged protect or the time I gave advice to the Smn for trying to bane Bio and just Miasma II while never having Garuda attack anything. It's the groups you run with and if you wanna help em it's on you and the group there's enough hand holding in this game as it is.

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Originally Posted by Awful

idek what point is being made here

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I was giving the DPS flak for deliberately making a new tank's life harder than it has to be and then being snotty about it.

Personally, I always focus on the tank's target when I DPS, unless there's an important mechanic/ kill priority to take into consideration. It just makes things easier, burns mobs down more quickly, and there's no risk of aggro issues. If you have your head firmly lodged up your ass because you have good DPS numbers and believe you should attack where you want and the tank just needs to deal, fine, do as you please - but if you're going to do that on a new tank who is clearly struggling and is much lower in ilevel/ level than you, and then look down on him for struggling to hold aggro, that's being inconsiderate and rude. I'm sure certain members of this forum will disagree, the special snowflakes that they are, but that's how it is, and how 90% of the parties I've been with play.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I was giving the DPS flak

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For doing their job? The tank STOPPED and caused a WIPE did the DPS cause the wipe? No they didn't so what're you talking about? The vault pulls itself I literally just said that and the tank can't hold threat, guess whose fault it is? The tank, they were running around in circles doing nothing about the party not tanking they could have said something but instead the tank literally tried to keep the party hostage by pulling the boss to not get kicked. It is what it is I was just saying that I give tips but that tank was belligerent and didn't ask for help or said hey guys can you calm down for all we know he doesn't fully know how to tank.

Like I said there's only so much hand holding this game can do it's up to the player to learn and adapt by lvl 50 I'd hope that tanks can you know hold threat that's what they've been doing since lvl 15+ in dungeons, hell people even have tank issues where they're scared to tank. I don't think I'd want a tank in my dungeon that runs around in circles and causes us a pointless wipe but you do you.

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Originally Posted by Awful

raeg.

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That tank didn't cause the wipe. Nor did I say "the tank is completely innocent and it's all your fault", I just pointed out the hypocrisy in ragging on a new tank while making their life more difficult. I already said the tank reacted badly.

I disagree with placing all the blame on the tank - if you are new, undergeared, with capped players, trying to hold aggro on multiple targets and the level 60 melee DPS is going all out on a different target to the rest of you, you will lose enmity. No instance "tanks itself", and the Vault can be tricky for new players of any role. There's a big difference between "hand-holding" and "this player is new/ to the job so maybe I'll actually be considerate and attack their target."

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I disagree with placing all the blame on the tank - if you are new, undergeared, with capped players, trying to hold aggro on multiple targets and the level 60 melee DPS is going all out on a different target to the rest of you, you will lose enmity.

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I mean they're 58 I'd hope they'd at least know how to tank that was at lvl 15 or 30, they should be focused on new skills and how to use em while lvling as for having a lvl 60 DPS in your group shouldn't make a difference if they know how to use their abilities you can spam Abyssal Drain with no Darkside and have 100% threat :^). It's just the tank not being good and wiping the group they weren't courteous to the group and just yelled at the DPS while they wiped it so yeah they got a kick because of it I would have too, a reasonable person wouldn't allow or encourage bad play and keep them around but hey if you want to let entitled tanks refusing to tank and get into combat to not get kicked all the power to ya. Tis the season for special snow flakes right.

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Originally Posted by Awful

etc.

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If you're going to reply to me at least read my post (and the OP's) please.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

They were a level 60 DRG in the Vault with, according to them, a:

There are probably going to be enmity issues if the DPS knows what they're doing.

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The Vault is a level 57 dungeon where level 58 HQ gear is more than appropriate, it doesn't matter that the DRG is synced from 60, DF will sync the stats as if it was level 58 HQ gear.

The whole "synced dps = aggro loss" is only a thing in the first 5 dungeons of ARR due to lack of tank stance, after that there's no excuse other than not knowing how to tank.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

The Vault is a level 57 dungeon where level 58 HQ gear is more than appropriate, it doesn't matter that the DRG is synced from 60, DF will sync the stats as if it was level 58 HQ gear.

The whole "synced dps = aggro loss" is only a thing in the first 5 dungeons of ARR due to lack of tank stance, after that there's no excuse other than not knowing how to tank.

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Paladins would like to have a word with you. Up to when you hit level 40 enmity is always gonna be an issue if you take your eyes off one mob for even a second. Flash-spamming does very little you know >_>

Working on my alt-ling's tank jobs. Ended up in Sastasha three times total (twice on purpose with GLD and MAR at 15, then randomed it on levelling roulette later with a FC member in the group).

On all three occasions I ended up with a healer that sat in cleric stance spamming heals the instant my health dropped a single point below full. Well, at least the third guy was clearly new (and a CNJ), and eventually turned cleric stance off, though that didn't cure him of his Medica/Cure spam habits. The other two were AST though.

I know it's only Sastasha, and that you can still clear it just fine even with astoundingly bad healing tendencies (this being why I didn't kick up a fuss over it, even though the nonstop healing sound effects were driving me nuts), but how do people even convince themselves that they're doing a good job that way in the first place? The CNJ I can forgive, since he was obviously new, but the other two? Bah.

Oh yeah and I also got a BRD that kept killing the blasting cap on purpose on the second boss of Copperbell, because he thought it was funny. -_-

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Originally Posted by Cenerae

I know it's only Sastasha, and that you can still clear it just fine even with astoundingly bad healing tendencies (this being why I didn't kick up a fuss over it, even though the nonstop healing sound effects were driving me nuts), but how do people even convince themselves that they're doing a good job that way in the first place? The CNJ I can forgive, since he was obviously new, but the other two? Bah.

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Doesn't help when we have stories of people demanding the healer stop attacking and only heal, or being told your only job is heal and nothing more. Really just bad teachings I feel. Personally get so bored if I am not actively attacking or helping, one reason I didn't like to party much in FF11 originally. Sit...heal...sit...heal.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

The Vault is a level 57 dungeon where level 58 HQ gear is more than appropriate, it doesn't matter that the DRG is synced from 60, DF will sync the stats as if it was level 58 HQ gear.

The whole "synced dps = aggro loss" is only a thing in the first 5 dungeons of ARR due to lack of tank stance, after that there's no excuse other than not knowing how to tank.

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Disagree, it can have a big impact depending on the players - and the DRK was not in pure 58 gear. Even if he were, I don't think it's capped at that point (?)

If the DPS don't go off and attack targets on their own, yes, aggro is fairly easy to hold onto.

Was leveling my AST, was going through the Aery (Funs times all around right?) The party had a rather bad DRG (With a sprout too.). The guy would constantly pull aggro off the tank cause they decided "I'm gonna go tunnel vision and beat up this thing the tank isn't beating up." and they would just run ahead and pull enemies then come running back with them. But the worst part was when we finally got to Nidhogg. They would just got full tunnel vision and focused solely on doing their combos. The other DPS or I would get sabled, he just kept pokin' away at Nidhogg, during the add phase he just sorta sat there and waited for Nidhogg to come back and we'd wipe cause THE DRG ISN'T KILLing DRAGONS! We wiped 4 times, So I slightly snap and explain the Nidhogg fight and explain "When the Sable shows up, please kill it!" and they went "Ok." and then they just quit out. After that a second DRG filled in and we cleared Nidhogg in one fell swoop.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

It does for several reasons. If everyone is focusing the same mob it dies faster. Which in turn reduces the damage the tank takes. Which in turn reduces the healing the healers do which in turn allows healers to contribute more dps. If everyone is targetting a different mob even a 3 mob pull will take longer than necessary to kill. Focus one down move on the next. Unless your at levels where you can rain aoe damage.

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Well...it was mentioned that there was a summoner in party and that it was the Vault. That's all the AoE capability you need right there. When there's a SMN in party there's no such thing as focusing a single target for the tank, they have to rotate and AoE enmity gains. Outside of that, with DRG being the other DPS - whatever the DRG is attacking is what's going to be focused down first and it's mainly going to be the DRG doing the focusing down.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Disagree, it can have a big impact depending on the players - and the DRK was not in pure 58 gear. Even if he were, I don't think it's capped at that point (?)

If the DPS don't go off and attack targets on their own, yes, aggro is fairly easy to hold onto.

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"it can have a big impact depending on the players" - so you're agreeing with me, being bad at tanking is something that depends on the players.

And yes it is capped at that point, you should go do vault with HQ gear since you clearly don't know what you're talking about, with only PLD at 60 I dare say you don't have enough experience tanking either.

Just admit defeat for once in your time in these forums, people have been telling you over and over this is an issue of player skill and not gear and you don't have the experience to back up your claims.

Enough. As a DRK Main I can say this: That tank didn't know what s/he was doing. I may not be amazing, but even I can hold hate on a big group if I don't start the pull with low/no MP, regardless of who's in it. Hell, I've held hate against endgame-geared DPS recently with an average ilvl of about 230 (and an i240 weapon). With competent DPS I have to watch my aggro, but I still generally manage to keep hate.

In The Vault, with half-decent gear, that tank has no excuse. And then raging at the party? He'd get the boot from me, too, no question.

--Erim Nelhah

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Originally Posted by alimdia

are you ok

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No, depending on stats, level, who the DPS attacks, the DPS output, their gear, etc., as I've said a thousand times.

I've actually played the Vault more times than I count on all my classes, tank included, I'm WAR on an alt, and acquainted enough with DRK to know how they work, but thanks for your concern!

In short, I said that DPS should attack the target the tank focuses (unless there's a blatant kill priority being ignored); that's how everyone I know plays, and how the parties I join play. DPS do not decide otherwise. Perhaps at higher levels it doesn't matter as much, but in levelling scenarios with lower-geared tanks and where aggro is a bit dicey, that's what you do. According to the OP's story, the tank and the SMN were attacking the same target; OP was deliberately going after something else - breaking your own "rules", as DPS supposedly "follow the other DPS" or something - then criticizing the tank for the result. I thought that was wrong, and I still think it's wrong, regardless of the opinions of several angry NA players. That's it. I also don't intend to change my mind any time soon, so I suggest finding someone else to try and convince of your authority on such matters. Clearly it's very important to you.

...what about dropping the argument and actually telling new Tales from Duty Finder...?

On topic, my rant about stupid people in Sophia EX preventing me from getting weapons helped a lot, today I got only oneshot clears and three weapons, plus I could buy the remaining weapons with tokens, so I finally have them all. I AM FREEEE~

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Chill out.

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Go outside or something if it bugs you that much holy just let it go and move on with your life no one really cares to be honest we know the tank was in the wrong because they were bad so shush and post on topic. If you want internet points or something go somewhere else and be an activist instead of wasting everyone's time on the forums everyone and I mean everyone, has beaten it into your thick skull so please, move on.

In any case I got into Levi EX for mentor roulette today had a great group 6/8 people were new me and the OT taught everyone how to do every phase and even got them on Discord. We ended up clearing on the 4th pull everyone was so happy we had people who never even stepped foot in Extreme back in the day getting their clear and were very nervous but it was an almost flawless clear only 1 person died! Kudos to you guys in my party today you rocked!

Edit: meant to say Levi EX not Seph EX

Heavensward Ex Primals aren't in the Mentor Roulette.

someone busted. LF confirm ( am not versed in the whole mentor feature )

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

Heavensward Ex Primals aren't in the Mentor Roulette.

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Meant to say levi EX oops lol been farming too much Seph EX for the bird lately :/ I got a bird brain lately.

It happens haha. :)

I ran leveling roulette as Scholar and got a sprout tank doing their Stone Vigil clear and they died twice during the run because I wasn't paying attention. Poor thing kept apologizing about dying after the last boss, and I'm just no that was really really my bad you're doing fantastic as a new tank. They really did do a great job I wouldn't have known they were new if they hadn't said so. I hope they believed me.

Snowcloak as SCH. PLD, DRG, and BRD.

To begin with, this BRD kept attacking mobs before the PLD could even reach them, which in my book is a huge strike. I actually just ended up standing there gaping at the stupidity of it all.

But no, the dumbest thing I saw from them was constantly keeping Army's Paeon up for whatever godforsaken reason. With Battle Voice up.

My last straw snapped when they started playing it at the first boss. At the start of it. How does someone get to level 50 BRD without knowing how their songs affect them? I just don't get how someone can play this game without being able to read basic instructions.

Aw man, I missed it...

Anyway, WC that went... ok? Only problem was our AST refused to use a Sect...

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Originally Posted by Awful

raeg!!

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r u ok...?

I haven't been playing in DF much because life reasons, but I had an... odd Dusk Vigil run the other day with a SCH, and a FR tank and BRD who seemed to be friends (60s). SCH says they're new; BRD warns tank in French to take it slow. Tank takes this very seriously, and pulls one - two monsters at a time, which makes SMN-me a little sad. We get further in, and I suggest the SCH is handling things so well tank could pull a little more. SCH agrees, but tank disregards this and starts pulling just one monster at a time after the second boss. At one point the wolf is right there, so I /point and ask them to pull. They ignore this, so I "accidentally" grab it and pull it over to the group. Tank's HP now falls at a terrifying 10 HP per second, but we make it through. The rest of the trash pulls in groups, so there are no more issues until we get to the last boss, where the tank goes barrelling in after skipping the cutscene and locking out the SCH, who is watching it. He's done this with every boss in the dungeon, so I ask if he could be a little more patient before boss fights. Tank now explodes into a rant of angry, bad English saying, amongst other things "ur the impatent one" and "u cry and cry about pull", followed by a lengthy diatribe on how I "brought the wolf over", and "u keep cryin u leav if u dont like it." Keeping in mind the only thing I said by then was "tank, could you pull more? I think the SCH can handle it." At this point SCH is loling and the FR BRD is babbling about omelettes and cookies in French... for some reason (they did this the entire dungeon ??) Eventually, once the frenglish ranting subsides, tank finally pulls. We clear. SCH kicks butt and avoids all the attacks, so I throw him a comm at the end. Tank exits without a word, BRD says something about sushi, waves and leaves. I get out to see I have 3 comms.

??? ???? ??????

I was in PoTD floors 1-10 yesterday. I wasn't even paying much attention to the chat then I suddenly noticed that two of the players were raging against each other. scrolled up to find out that, apparently, the argument was over one of the players clearing the key room first and the other correcting him/her, stating that we should always clear the keyroom last. Then the other player starting raging and down hill it went from there. I was like, wow really? They're seriously arguing over a level 1 dungeon mechanics... Would hate to be in an actual raid with those guys.

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Originally Posted by Sciwolf

I was in PoTD floors 1-10 yesterday. I wasn't even paying much attention to the chat then I suddenly noticed that two of the players were raging against each other. scrolled up to find out that, apparently, the argument was over one of the players clearing the key room first and the other correcting him/her, stating that we should always clear the keyroom last. Then the other player starting raging and down hill it went from there. I was like, wow really? They're seriously arguing over a level 1 dungeon mechanics... Would hate to be in an actual raid with those guys.

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Granted it matters zero at 1-10, but it's worth telling people proper PotD strategy so they know it for higher floors.

Queued Aurumn Vale last night while leveling Monk. DRK tank, who was likely doing leveling roullete, decided to sight pull everything in the first room, using unleashed only when it was painfully obvious the the healer in our party was dying, causing a party wipe. Re-spawned, only do it all over again.

After the second wipe, the blm in the party suggested smaller pulls, only for the tank to get a hissy fit and say: "Learn to do big-pulls", then promply left before I could respond back with "Learn to hold hate." :(

I don't know how you can go through 60 levels as a tank, and not realize that sight pulls aren't enough to hold hate when the healer is forced to massively heal you because you've pulled an entire room without any cool downs. Especially in a dungeon where you are level capped to 49.

Queued as BRD for 50 roulette this morning and got Wanderer's Palace hard with a brand new tank. He had a 55 axe. The first few trash pulls on the way to the boss were unsteady but doable, did have to tell the tank not to pull mobs out of the flaming arrow circle to which he responded "my bad."

First boss, after the pull, the boss belonged to the DRG for a while, until Spears appeared and the DRG and I had to kill those. The WAR goes "wtf?" And I reply "?" guessing that it was the aggro issue, but no response. He tries to do the big trash pull after the first boss. We wipe. He does it again and we're okay. Then he tries to do the big, big pull after that and I tell him to stop, thankfully he does, and we finish off the trash on the way to second boss.

The second boss is the dragoon's for most of the fight. Tank makes aggravated noises and we prompt him, get no answer. Trash pull after the boss, tank dies again, but the scholar confesses it was their bad. After that one I say to the dragoon "hey, you know that elusive jump dumps aggro, right? To which they respond "really, it does? Interesting." I check their user info - all jobs at 60. Pretty sure they knew that, but hey, I learn stuff every week. They've got the 260 DRG relic and I'm using the 255 Soph bow. WAR is using the 55 grand company axe, poor guy.

At the final boss, the WAR pulls, I pop my cooldowns, I start to dps....and the boss is mine, all mine! I tank him where he's supposed to be, occasionally not attacking, but the WAR just cannot get him back. I die, SCH raises me, and I say "that's one way to dump aggro."

I ask the WAR if he's using butchers block combo to which he replies, frustrated, that he is. I tell him he may want to level gladiator to 22 to get provoke, the fight ends, and the WAR says "well, I don't need it now."

Commed the DRG for being such an effective troll, leave the instance, and discover he's commed me for being a good sport. At least, I'm pretty sure it was him...

Spammed lowbie dungeons last night with a buddy, who wanted to level his conjurer, and my wife, who was on her baby lancer. Queued specifically for Halatali, and we get some Elezen tank who just kinda looks around, targets each one of us, then finally spits out two gems: "i dont want to do this" and "this wont give me good gear"

What.

Cue my response, "When you sign up for leveling roulette, that's a chance you take. Take what you got or take your penalty and leave." After a moment, the tank walked right out the gate. We three manned the first boss, then got another mentor for a tank who joined us and we destroyed the rest of the dungeon. Still got out before that first tank's penalty was up.

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Originally Posted by Lan_Mantear

snip

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First of all, Sac Pull would like to say hello. Your DRK should know how to do this, as should any level 60. Even if there was someone in the party who wanted a full clear, it is simply not possible to outgear a dungeon like this to make mass pulls viable, due to the level 49 sync. A tank would take too much damage, a healer can't put out enough HPS, and DPS can't mow the packs down quickly enough to save the party. This tank is not very smart, and he's got a chip on his shoulder. Be thankful that he left.

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Originally Posted by Elixirboy

First of all, Sac Pull would like to say hello. Your DRK should know how to do this, as should any level 60. Even if there was someone in the party who wanted a full clear, it is simply not possible to outgear a dungeon like this to make mass pulls viable, due to the level 49 sync. A tank would take too much damage, a healer can't put out enough HPS, and DPS can't mow the packs down quickly enough to save the party. This tank is not very smart, and he's got a chip on his shoulder. Be thankful that he left.

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It would have been mildly understandable if a Sac pull was his intention. But no, he fully expected to pull the entire room and keep hate solely from the awesomeness of being 60 capped at 49, without the need for cool downs.

I agree, we were better off when he left. Specially since another tank queued. I take note simply because the attitude displayed by the tank was rather more childish than I am used.

Not really a "horror" story, but 2 roulettes in a row with a Noct AST when I am on SCH. Y u do dis 2 me?

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Originally Posted by Aramina

Not really a "horror" story, but 2 roulettes in a row with a Noct AST when I am on SCH. Y u do dis 2 me?

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Oh man I signed up to do Void Ark with a buddy on Thursday and he always runs WHM. So I signed up as Noct Ast. We loaded in and I said right away to the party, "I'm gonna set myself to follow Avarrin and he'll be your healer," though I was joking.

We got through the first two trash pulls before I realized Avarrin was on SMN, and my co healer was a SCH. Whoops...

I switched to Diurnal before the boss and they definitely knew I wasn't afk because I was tossing out cards left and right. Even gave one of the bards an extended ewer because they asked for it. But after I switched to Diurnal, the SCH rarely used succor or adlo.

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Originally Posted by Aramina

Not really a "horror" story, but 2 roulettes in a row with a Noct AST when I am on SCH. Y u do dis 2 me?

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Had that recently. Thank heavens that streak is over now though ( for now... )

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I decided to queue up VA for WT on my i260+ MCH and ended up tanking Cetus and Sawtooth because I don't think any of the tanks actually turned on their tank stances.

...I eventually had to stop tanking Sawtooth because it went Physical Ranged immune though. lol.. Still held it for at least 30s more after the instant death raid buster went out before it dropped to pounce a healer.

Thankfully a DRK in the alliance turned on their Grit for the final boss. I actually stayed put and did nothing for 30s on the third boss just for cooldowns and to see if I could pull hate afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Aramina

Not really a "horror" story, but 2 roulettes in a row with a Noct AST when I am on SCH. Y u do dis 2 me?

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My girlfriend became one of "those ASTs" yesterday. We queued up for Trial Roulette (me on BRD, her on AST), we get Cape Westwind. We have a SCH so so goes Di and starts buffing everyone with Stoneskins except the newbie who is watching the CS. When the barrier finally drops, Selli goes to Protect and Stoneskin him...except she hits Noct Sect because having her Sects right beside Protect and Stoneskin is a good idea...anyway, the tank pulls and our conversation went something like this.

"Did you just-?"
"Yes."
"But we have a-"
"I know."
"You're one of those-"
"YES I KNOW I'M ONE OF THOSE ASTROS NOW."

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Originally Posted by Kallistra

except she hits Noct Sect because having her Sects right beside Protect and Stoneskin is a good idea...

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Reminds me of the time I was in sophia ex as smn and I had Resurrection right next to Titan, so instead of raising a player, I accidentally summoned Titan instead. I think I deserved it when I got knocked off a second later.