Roleplay/Partyfinder Discrepancies & Policy Enforcement by GM's

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

You're not erping with the ad. You aren't getting frisky with a movie. You might go and get erp as you might get frisky with you s/o while watching a movie.

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How do you fail to tell the difference between a story you can't control being told to you, and an advertisement inviting you to participate?

A movie with a sex scene isn't saying "hey, come do this!" but an advert literally is.

I'm not going to argue this point further with you as it's clear you're willfully ignoring the difference. At least I hope so.

Anyway regardless of that, I hope SE will put in a rp tab in PF to put this whole situation to rest.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

How do you fail to tell the difference between a story you can't control being told to you, and an advertisement inviting you to participate?

A movie with a sex scene isn't saying "hey, come do this!" but an advert literally is.

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Ah yes. The carefully censored sex scene for the plot and nothing else.:cool:

Going to blow you mind about the intentions of saucy pg-13 drive-ins of yore.

Is the possibility of minors engaging in ERP with adults just kind of ignored?

Those ads and ERP venues in general have no room in this game, if you wanna ERP, there's is a way to do it that's more protective of minors and considerate of other players who don't want to see [ERP/18+] plastered in PF. Pretty sure most ERPers don't do the bare minimum of asking the age of whoever they're going to RP with.

If you could somehow ban people from entering an estate and such, ERP venues could be more acceptable, but until minors can be effectively removed from 18+ spaces "adult entertainment" has no room in the game.


Overall I think there needs to be a RP tab in PF and better filtering options or better yet, an overhaul to fellowships.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

Is the possibility of minors engaging in ERP with adults just kind of ignored?

Those ads and ERP venues in general have no room in this game, if you wanna ERP, there's is a way to do it that's more protective of minors and considerate of other players who don't want to see [ERP/18+] plastered in PF. Pretty sure most ERPers don't do the bare minimum of asking the age of whoever they're going to RP with.

If you could somehow ban people from entering an estate and such, ERP venues could be more acceptable, but until minors can be effectively removed from 18+ spaces "adult entertainment" has no room in the game.


Overall I think there needs to be a RP tab in PF and better filtering options or better yet, an overhaul to fellowships.

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But again.. the original problem was... the GM saying that Roleplaying.. as a whole, isn't content. That because they don't view it as content, that it shouldn't be put up in PF, the GM didn't say anything about it being ERP related, just that PF is made for content such as raids, dungeons fates and map runs.

So while people can argue back and forth on whether ERP and Adult things should be allowed in the game.. that isn't what the problem with the GM was

For crying out loud a poor fisher got in trouble for asking for friends to fish with..

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Originally Posted by Sevrin_Blaine

But again.. the original problem was... the GM saying that Roleplaying.. as a whole, isn't content. That because they don't view it as content, that it shouldn't be put up in PF, the GM didn't say anything about it being ERP related, just that PF is made for content such as raids, dungeons fates and map runs.

So while people can argue back and forth on whether ERP and Adult things should be allowed in the game.. that isn't what the problem with the GM was

For crying out loud a poor fisher got in trouble for asking for friends to fish with..

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This isn't completely relevant to the OP but still relevant to some of the discussions going on in this thread.

I do think ads and spam is annoying as hell but I can't exactly blame people for the former because there is no better alternative for this. I must also add that this is happening on Primal as far as I'm aware and ads for RP venues are absolutely rampant compared to what's seen on other DCs from my experience.


It's really annoying that there is no RP category in PF and actually good filtering settings to remove all of that eyesore.

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Originally Posted by Julisia

I've been disheartened by the amount of posts here denigrating the RP community. I'm heavily involved in that community. Some of the best people I've met in this game have stemmed from the RP community. It breaks my heart that so many of you would seek to ruin our community just because you don't engage in that type of play. Who made you judge and jury to tell us how to play a massive multiplayer online role playing game? Are you seriously suggesting that the only content out there is raiding? Raiding stresses me out personally, that's why I opt for the RP - I lose myself, reality is painful for some and they use it as an escape. If I didn't have my group of friends, I would be lonely - I'm already suffering from anxiety and depression before any of it. RP breathes life into me. Why do you seek to take that away from us? Why does what happens between 2 consenting adults bother you so much? What is it your business if a club advertises in OTHER, when you have your own section for Duty Completion. You know you can filter those out by clicking a button right? You know I'm right. But instead of acknowledging this simple truth, you CHOOSE to click OTHER because you're too lazy to click on "Trials" "High End Duty". You have an axe to grind. Plain and simple. (I double checked the functionality, advertisements to not show up under those tabs.) You choose OTHER and think to yourself "Wonder what these degenerates are up to today?" I personally hope that SE reprimands this GM and issues a massive apology to the RP Community. You shouldn't have to log on to FFXIV and fear for your account b/c you want to play the game a different way than someone else.

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I don't actually think the GM had any real malice. Since they also went after a dude who was just looking for company while fishing, chances are he legit believes that the Party Finder isn't for anything but forming parties to do content... And I sort of feel that GMs are given a lot of power but not a lot of guidance.

Yet it is sort of annoying that people think that all role-players are the same. As a role-player, I get a little disappointed when I see the Party Finder filled with ERP venues since it means I'm not likely going to get any role-playing done that night... Since that's not the sort of thing I'm into playing out. I don't think that Kotaku article really helped, either.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

Is the possibility of minors engaging in ERP with adults just kind of ignored?

Those ads and ERP venues in general have no room in this game, if you wanna ERP, there's is a way to do it that's more protective of minors and considerate of other players who don't want to see [ERP/18+] plastered in PF. Pretty sure most ERPers don't do the bare minimum of asking the age of whoever they're going to RP with.

If you could somehow ban people from entering an estate and such, ERP venues could be more acceptable, but until minors can be effectively removed from 18+ spaces "adult entertainment" has no room in the game.


Overall I think there needs to be a RP tab in PF and better filtering options or better yet, an overhaul to fellowships.

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This. Isn't. About. Whether. It's. ERP. Or. Not.

It has been stated multiple times, and seeable in some of OP's proof, not everything getting smacked is about ERP. RP, as a whole, is not allowed in the PF according to the GM. You are not allowed to show your bar, or your party, or a hangout spot, and it sure as heck showed I can't start up that RP Triple Triad tourney I wanted to consider, since I'd need to use the PF to advertise that.

Great systems. Another tick from this to show why I don't trust the GM team.

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Originally Posted by Sevrin_Blaine

For crying out loud a poor fisher got in trouble for asking for friends to fish with..

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I'm sorry if I'm just dense, can you link me to where this happened? Not @'ing you 'cause I think you're lying or some nonsense, I'd just like to see it for myself.

This is wild.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

This isn't completely relevant to the OP but still relevant to some of the discussions going on in this thread.

I do think ads and spam is annoying as hell but I can't exactly blame people for the former because there is no better alternative for this. I must also add that this is happening on Primal as far as I'm aware and ads for RP venues are absolutely rampant compared to what's seen on other DCs from my experience.


It's really annoying that there is no RP category in PF and actually good filtering settings to remove all of that eyesore.

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I always just considered "Other" to be the RP and weird stuff category in Party Finder and if I wanted something specific, I would click on that tab. If I wanted to look at the "Other" tab, I would just click on that. Tabs filter. I think that is part of the problem though as "Other" has been used by RP venues and "other" comments like advertising a fc, art fellowship, cute mi'qotes looking for in-game sugar daddies, people having a rough time and needing some emotional support and more. I've found funerals in the "Other" section as well as Pride Parades, weddings on my server that were in desperate need of guests. Hell, I've considered jokingly running a free "uber" with my regalia so that people can get their aether currents in places like the Tempest so when they do hunts, they'll actually have their aether currents as opposed to slowing me down on a hunt train. I was even going to wear a tux... I would've stuck that in the "Other" section because "Other" can mean and has meant a lot of things up until GM Wyndallus decided to start dishing out punishments on everything from ERP to RP to that poor fisherman. All of that changed overnight with no forewarning.

Sorry, no freebie uber offer now as I don't want to get a mark on my account for what I thought would be funny. :(

LisSquid is correct. You cannot take "object a" and conclude "result b". Object a in this case being an advertisement. "18+ Venue. Dancing + Stage. Bartender! Raffles to occur on the hour. RP welcome." Literally nothing wrong with that. The fact it says 18+ does not even mean it definitely has courtesans. And, even those that do, many have SFW courtesans. Like... PG-13 "strip" club types.

One cannot look at that advertisement and go "OMG, CHILDREN ARE BUYING ERP!" First off... children probably don't have the money, or the verbal/literary skills to pull off "sneaking" into an 18+ venue and getting a courtesan. Also, FFXIV is in no way COPPA complainant. "Think of the children" can walk right out the door. And no, teens should not be engaging in erp. I mean... they do... on basically every platform in existence. And...text is a completely different kettle of fish. Hell, in 2001 the Supreme Court of Canada deemed that young people have the right to express themselves sexually as long as a number of conditions were met, and that is with images. But all those laws apply to images/video. Again, this is why games deal with ToS and not legal matters, especially when the game is global. Literally everything that I can find for North America is image-based. So... as much as I would personally gag at the idea of a 13 year old erping with a 25 year old courtesan... it does not appear to be illegal. At least, not in Canada/USA.

Advertising an 18+ club is the same as a sign on an adult bookstore. There is literally nothing wrong with that sign. Once you enter that book store you are knowing entering a place that may have content of a certain nature. You have consented to that content by going to that location. The sign is still not bad, or against an rules. You cannot judge the person or venue for the sign. What might happen in the venue may or may not go again ToS. That's for the GMs to decide. And that means an investigation. Which means reports. Which means people would actually have to purposefully go to the venue, find courtesans, and then....report them for wearing a nsfw tag? Even though they may not have worked at all that night and thus had no logs? And it's not like a player can engage with the courtesan and then go "BUSTED" and report them, cause, uh... yeah, it goes both ways. Nor can a GM pull a sting. But man, can you imagine that being on your work itinerary every Friday night?

Advertisement is not erp. You want to report the erp? Go for it. But it has to be actual ToS violation. Implying sex exists somewhere is not against ToS. The game itself does that much. But sure, things occur in the game that are reportable. How FFXIV should handle ERP is its own thing. It's a completely different topic than what this thread is about. There are so many venues that have literally nothing to do with erp, and they should not be made to suffer because one GM is losing his marbles. Yoshi P is aware of erp. He has indicated that it violates ToS. Presumably they deal with reported infractions. Presumably they are not forcing their GMs to attempt to buy services to catch people cause that would be very...very out of scope of duties. I have absolutely no problem with erp, but SE can do whatever they want about it.

There is still a major, major difference between advertising a venue where they want the clientele to not be drama filled hormonal teenagers, and an erp brothel.

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Originally Posted by Eoko

Furthermore, something that would be obscene in visual media is highly unlikely to be considered as obscene in written form.

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I disagree. Words create images. You might not have showed the other person a picture, but you sent them the instructions to produce that picture in their mind.

Okay I haven't read all 74 pages (cause damn) but this looks like a rogue GM to me.

We've had someone that puts up an AFK Club on Aether for years. Never meant anyone couldn't find what they needed on Party Finder. Neither do any other non-grouping advertisements or when we all put up continuous PFs with lines from the Pokemon theme song. So long as it's not slurs or profanity, who gives a fig.

To get into a fellowship it would require advertising which would be the equivalent of A spamming chat in major cities which is frowned upon and found annoying or the passive method of party finders which at that point is redundant the other issue with that suggestion is having every person who likes the RP of an RPg might as well have (lets use 20% as a random number) of a data center in one chat it would be chaos. the party finders it to find a group of people to do content with that content may be RP and not necessarily require the computer code of joining a party much like how hunt groups dont require the people to be in party to enjoy them. This is one aspect of the game and just because it doesn't kill or gather something doesn't mean they are not working towards completion of a goal. Whether if it is to relax in a cafe, have some drinks in a pub, or dance the night away to a dj. Fellowship is as much of an answer as creating a data center chat and would be ineffective at completing its purpose. the party finder using the other section was one way to single out club activities if anything the should probably add a RP Party finder.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I disagree. Words create images. You might not have showed the other person a picture, but you sent them the instructions to produce that picture in their mind.

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Exactly, you don't need images, most states have CMIP or CMIP type laws. Communication with a minor for immoral purposes. Written word alone is enough.

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Originally Posted by DreadCrow

You could argue that ERP is against the guidelines... I'd even agree with you. I think that there should be other things that take priority over it, like selling clears or flat out RMT... But here's the thing. It isn't just ERP that was hit. Standard, vanilla RP venues were hit... Something Yoshi-P has flat out encouraged to be part of the game. A dude asking for company while fishing got hit. People got hit for stuff that shouldn't be an issue.

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This isnt about ERP this is about RP in general whether if it is a pub or a cafe or dance club they are all effected. on another note talking about naughty stuff is not distributing content. that would be things such as using square to send nude photos and such. Not talking.

- she takes shower ( You all now gonna melt, it's so prohibited here, it's act of RP! Cover Your eyes text has no dress! )

/people got melt from nude text! So Dramatic!

Let's be serious.

I understand reporting for vulgar words used in public, and it is prohibited even irl laws, no brainiac.

But can some one explain me how text can be pornographic? ( no vulgar )
Because people tend to mix RP with pornography, so, just asking.

by oxford dictionary: pornographic

"intended to make people feel sexually excited by showing naked people or sexual acts, usually in a way that many other people find offensive"

Game has no nudity or sexual acts, all what You see is text, it's not real, it's all fiction ( using no vulgar, no prohibited words ) then where is problem?

Those who report some RP must not know that TV has commercials about x pills or "sex protection"

And God forbid using www.google.com, put three letter text! ( actually that one shows real things. Who knew!? )

So you mean to tell me that all those housing scalpers and moguls of XIV's black market realty can post their bs at four times base estate price...and that be there for years regardless of our complaining. Yet we can't advertise roleplaying in an RPG?

lol ok

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Originally Posted by Eoko

The USA is a little trickier since every bloody state wants to do it's own thing and I'm not going to do a list of all 50 and what bills they have passed in relation to an adult sexting a teen.

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There is a federal statute as well. Case law on it is interesting. Law doesn't apply, policy does. Policy is 99% of the time focused around the most restrictive laws where they apply.

That aside, the GM overstepped his bounds and that's getting corrected. SE has already issued statements to that fact. Based on the other images that were presented regarding conversations with the GM they were specifically targeting 18+ and 21+ venues. Could this be split in to two threads. Sure, and maybe it would be better that way. I think the root of the problem, even with the GM mess up, is what almost everyone is circling back to... The public advertisement of ERP.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

The game devs themselves can't even verify that the person playing is old enough to be playing, how does anyone expect other players to? Just delete brothels and ERP all together.

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Agree, because these people also mod the game with porn mods. That is what makes Yoshida angry, we don't need Reshade/ACT etc getting banned and anti-cheats (which would have to be kernel level rootkits essentially to be effective) added to the game because of this garbage.

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Originally Posted by testname

- she takes shower ( You all now gonna melt, it's so prohibited here, it's act of RP! Cover Your eyes text has no dress! )

...

But can some one explain me how text can be pornographic? ( no vulgar )
Because people tend to mix RP with pornography, so, just asking.

by oxford dictionary: pornographic

"intended to make people feel sexually excited by showing naked people or sexual acts, usually in a way that many other people find offensive"

Game has no nudity or sexual acts, all what You see is text, it's not real, it's all fiction ( using no vulgar, no prohibited words ) then where is problem?

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"Taking a shower" is not an example of a problem. The undetailed thought of someone having a shower can be entirely G-rated.

On the other hand, someone describing that they are naked, talking about body parts, doing "interesting things" with them... yes, that can be pornographic entirely through text.

If people want to legally do that in their own time then that's their own business, but it's still something that would be unacceptable to be writing "out loud" in a public area of the game where passers-by could read it.

Very disappointing, really should be removing the non-ERP events to discourage any more children from joining the game. Complete misfire on the part of the person doing the reporting and the GM.

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Originally Posted by DreadCrow

I don't actually think the GM had any real malice. Since they also went after a dude who was just looking for company while fishing, chances are he legit believes that the Party Finder isn't for anything but forming parties to do content... And I sort of feel that GMs are given a lot of power but not a lot of guidance.

Yet it is sort of annoying that people think that all role-players are the same. As a role-player, I get a little disappointed when I see the Party Finder filled with ERP venues since it means I'm not likely going to get any role-playing done that night... Since that's not the sort of thing I'm into playing out. I don't think that Kotaku article really helped, either.

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18+ venues aren't always ERP venues though. Most are just dance clubs with bars service in game adult beverages. What people decide to do with one another beyond that is their business. You can choose to ERP or not, that's a conscious choice. Live and let live. Seems many here don't care for the hearts of others.

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

Agree, because these people also mod the game with porn mods. That is what makes Yoshida angry, we don't need Reshade/ACT etc getting banned and anti-cheats added to the game because of this garbage.

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I mean, he legit hates ACT as well. They just don't often have the ability to get proof of use in any way to enforce it. But he's said a lot of times we shouldn't use it either. No third party. No mods. Some things are just harder to catch, or worth it to people to push until they get a warning. He didn't really care about cosmetic mods at first, but then they started getting really lewd and people were sharing them. And a lot of mods are also rips from other content, so intellectual property and stuff gets involved. His concerns are very legit on those fronts. But people will keep doing and using all those things. I mean, RMT is the biggest thorn in their side and that's also never going anywhere. All they can really do is investigate reports. Even if they did ban keywords for PF adverts, people would just make codes, which would be outlined offsite, which would not be said in game chat. -shrugs- I don't see an issue with Yoshi P and crew putting on the guise of a crack down. I just also know it won't do anything.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Something not being illegal doesn't mean it's right. I'm applying their logic to real life, in which their example would be very, very illegal. Because you can't use the excuse of "They totally told me they were <age>" as an excuse.

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I never said there wouldn't be any legal consequences, but on a moral standpoint I think it's definitely harder to frown at someone who wants to make sure they're doing this with someone of age.

If a teen lies about their age and engage in that sort of things, I couldn't blame the person they engage with.


Minors who enter adult space and lie about their age are a pest but it falls on people who produce adult content to make up where their guardians did poorly unfortunately.

(can't edit on phone)

I think people who play this game, do not know it's actually

MMO RP G <- MMORPG !

Yes you are playing FFXIV

Role Play Game the RP is in core


Can we ban ff14 from advertising itself on social media? Coz you know ... it's the RP

What are you a cop

Thanks to all this more HQ feet pics are for sale and that is awesome. Joking aside this seems like a dumb hill to die on let people be. Ignore what you do not like and please stop trying to use the children as a motive. Not the communities job to police every interaction between players. All people can do is advertise that are meant for a certain age and if people ignore it or lie about their age then that should be on them. I get that may not be the case irl but it can ans should be here.

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Originally Posted by testname

I think people who play this game, do not know it's actually

MMO RP G <- MMORPG !

Yes you are playing FFXIV

Role Play Game the RP is in core

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An RPG - long established, especially in the context of a JRPG, as a game where you take on the role of a specific character in the pre-written story - is not inherently the same thing as free-form roleplaying between multiple people.

There is overlap in this game, but it's not what the acronym means.

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Originally Posted by VeradBV

Sexuality shouldn't be allowed until 25+ when the brain stops developing, that's science.

Also a pretty known consequence of restricting objectionable content like ERP, porn, what-have-you. LGBT is next on the docket for the person who does that kind of reporting.

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I'm not really sure you can just ban sexuality from minors. It's not like sexuality is a magic switch in the brain that you can toggle on or off.

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Originally Posted by VeradBV

Sexuality shouldn't be allowed until 25+ when the brain stops developing, that's science.

Also a pretty known consequence of restricting objectionable content like ERP, porn, what-have-you. LGBT is next on the docket for the person who does that kind of reporting.

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Oh wow there is so much to unpack here.

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Originally Posted by SecretIsland

I'm not really sure you can just ban sexuality from minors. It's not like sexuality is a magic switch in the brain that you can toggle on or off.

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Yeah, you're probably right, we should acknowledge the inherent tension between trying to defend minors from sexuality to which they're constantly trying to expose themselves and each other, often at the same time, and start reconsidering how we approach this issue.

Or we could just taze them whenever they have a dirty thought. That's what my family did, it almost worked.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Oh wow there is so much to unpack here.

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I know 25+ is cutting it a little young but I'm a strong advocate of letting people experiment early. 30+ is probably the more conservative position.

I think they should go ahead and keep banning their best source of income. That'll show us! How dare people desire to spend time with RP in a game that otherwise wouldn't be worth paying for? With how they continue to dumb down classes and homogenize any semblance of player choice... I'd rather play a game like Genshin where I have freedom of choice in character builds and team strategy. I could give my $20 a month to literally any other game so long as the devs and GM's respect their players in a way Square is starting to prove they just do not.

And the more people like me that stop paying them, the more this will hurt the company. That's unfortunately the only way you make an impact in this sort of situation. Complaining does nothing so long as they keep getting your paycheck. As of the start of this banning and crackdown nonsense I've canceled my sub and retainer service. Until I see an official source of apology or revert of this new "policy" I won't be paying another dime.

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Originally Posted by VeradBV

Looking forward to removal of LGBT spaces as 18+.

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Oh great. In addition to a bad situation, we now get to throw homo/transphobia in the mix for literally no reason.

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Originally Posted by Skyler_Magus

Oh great. In addition to a bad situation, we now get to throw homo/transphobia in the mix for literally no reason.

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Yeah it's gonna suck, but all it's gonna take is one 'phobe with a report button and a poorly-worded PF notice.

Good stuff!

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Originally Posted by VeradBV

Yeah, you're probably right, we should acknowledge the inherent tension between trying to defend minors from sexuality to which they're constantly trying to expose themselves and each other, often at the same time, and start reconsidering how we approach this issue.

Or we could just taze them whenever they have a dirty thought. That's what my family did, it almost worked.

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Sexuality and pornography are not the same thing.

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Originally Posted by VeradBV

I know 25+ is cutting it a little young but I'm a strong advocate of letting people experiment early. 30+ is probably the more conservative position.

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Oh. Wait. You’re just a troll. Never mind. Be careful. You can actually get banned/suspended or this. It’d be a really stupid way to suddenly be able to empathize with all of the players that now have a strike against their account, but I’m getting the strong impression you have a few already.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

Sexuality and pornography are not the same thing.

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I agree, but they're both things we should necessarily report in this PF instance because it is on responsible adults to ensure minors aren't, idk, what are overprotective parents worried about in LGBT spaces they can't control? Is it still grooming? I think it's still grooming.

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Originally Posted by Skyler_Magus

Oh. Wait. You’re just a troll. Never mind. Be careful. You can actually get banned/suspended or this. It’d be a really stupid way to suddenly be able to empathize with all of the players that now have a strike against their account, but I’m getting the strong impression you have a few already.

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You have the power to report at your leisure, and can freely do so regardless of the context of the post.

I'm surprised we got into the 70s before the trolls really starting lumbering in.