DRK Consolidated Feedback Thread

A damn near 70 page thread and absolutely no response whatsoever. GG SE GG.

Now that they released UCOB without a fix or mention of the possibility for a fix to DRK I'm starting to lose my motivation to provide further feedback. Hopefully others still have some energy left in them to fight the good fight though. I've been watching twitch streams constantly and have not seen hide nor hair of a DRK, even in lesser groups proging on Twin.

actually it might be the best time to demand changes as ultimate progression will show the imbalance that we have atm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

actually it might be the best time to demand changes as ultimate progression will show the imbalance that we have atm

---

Maybe. Kinda beside the point though IMO. It shouldn't take content of this difficulty to give SE the proper slap in the face. And if this is the only thing to wake them up and they seem oblivious to the feedback we've been giving since the weeks leading up to 4.0, it really just paints a picture for them of DRK being 100% working as intended outside of the absolute hardest of hardest content in the game. Not really the message I would have sent, but... yeah... w/e.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

Now that they released UCOB without a fix or mention of the possibility for a fix to DRK I'm starting to lose my motivation to provide further feedback. Hopefully others still have some energy left in them to fight the good fight though. I've been watching twitch streams constantly and have not seen hide nor hair of a DRK, even in lesser groups proging on Twin.

---

Honestly, I'm losing energy for the forums feedback as well. With not developer feedback, I think I might branch off my feedback to gaming websites and social media.

I actually have not seen a group progging ultimate with Dark Knight. Has anyone?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

I actually have not seen a group progging ultimate with Dark Knight. Has anyone?

---

Nope, none that I've seen so far. Xeno one of the hardcore players in the game and an outspoken individual, once said during one of his prog runs that: "You would be stupid not to have a WAR/PLD comp in this fight." Make of it what you will, but that alone says lots about DRKs situation at present in regards to coil ultimate but its also the only opinion i've heard at the moment from the hardcore raiders, i'd imagine that they are all singing off the same hymn sheet. Non-world first groups may be taking DRKs on the attitude of "play what you want." But logically speaking, in a fight where the difficulty is that high and even one death could derail a pull, you would want to bring as much DPS/party mitigation as possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

I actually have not seen a group progging ultimate with Dark Knight. Has anyone?

---

Yeah. Me.

The job's usefulness is sort of becoming a joke as how MNK was a joke in 3.0. Eventually we're going to see groups only looking for PLD/WAR. This is no longer just a meta thing for speedkill groups.

As SyzzleSpark predicted, hard content would highlight the flaws of Dark Knight. Really not hard to tell given how much feedback the developers have gotten from the player base couple with the development team doing absolutely nothing except buffing warrior.

Right know Ultimate just made the Drk situation worse.



The raid wide mitigation is just too good to leave it behind for a job like Dk that not add anything valuable at the table.


Right now the Dk don't provide anything of valuable for the paty in the form of dps, mitigation or utility over the other tank.



And while we have spoken about this problem in advance for the past month, yet SE didn't spend a post or a note to reply to our concern.

I have a feeling the stance with Ultimate is gonna be "either make what you want to work work, or find a better strategy," and seeing as how it's not something the average player will want/care/be able to do in the near future (or more, depending on the individuals), using it as a metric to elaborate on how DRK is in need of adjustments is grasping for straws. Hells, this fight is designed for the best, more hardcore and dedicated players to tackle. They're the types of people who will find the best strategy, not force a broken, arguably weaker strategy, to fill the same role.

But that’s the point, even if you want to try and do this content on dark you are at a disadvantage. We should not be in the state that people question if dark knights can clear the fight regardless of player skill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

But that’s the point, even if you want to try and do this content on dark you are at a disadvantage. We should not be in the state that people question if dark knights can clear the fight regardless of player skill.

---

I mean, I know this is gonna come off as dickish, but if the creators themselves said this challenge isn't for just anyone, and that to even get to attempt it you need to clear o4s, it implies you need to go into it expecting it to be ""unfair"". To expect every class, flaws and all, to be able to effectively clear this content seems too expectant IMO. Yes, every class should be able to do all content, that much I agree with. But, not every class will have an equal ability to do it, and trying to take a weaker job into it at all seems like you're shooting yourself in the foot.

If SE's attitude toward class balance is "Hey, we said this is hard, so if you can't clear it on a certain class that's not our problem!" then I'd like them to be up front about that so that people have a chance to unsubscribe from the game.

The chances that they feel that way are close to zero, and the chances that you are actually literally unable to clear the fight with a DRK are about as small, but I've yet to see anyone even come close to saying anything like "Actually, DRK might be better than [PLD/WAR] in this one!" and can't really imagine a situation where that would be the case, so hopefully that (combined with plenty of feedback elsewhere) will be enough of a shock to SE's sytem to do something about it, sooner rather than later.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

I mean, I know this is gonna come off as dickish, but if the creators themselves said this challenge isn't for just anyone, and that to even get to attempt it you need to clear o4s, it implies you need to go into it expecting it to be ""unfair"". To expect every class, flaws and all, to be able to effectively clear this content seems too expectant IMO. Yes, every class should be able to do all content, that much I agree with. But, not every class will have an equal ability to do it, and trying to take a weaker job into it at all seems like you're shooting yourself in the foot.

---

I'm fine with content being gated by skill, thats by no means my complaint.

I'm not fine with potentially gearing out a class for 8 weeks and not being able to get a group because of the class I started on. I'm not ok with content being gated by meta. To early to tell how strict the dps, mitigation, and heal checks are but we aren't getting better gear for this content and it appears to legitimately be hard enough to warrant looking at what you are bringing to the fight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

I'm fine with content being gated by skill, thats by no means my complaint.

I'm not fine with potentially gearing out a class for 8 weeks and not being able to get a group because of the class I started on. I'm not ok with content being gated by meta. To early to tell how strict the dps, mitigation, and heal checks are but we aren't getting better gear for this content and it appears to legitimately be hard enough to warrant looking at what you are bringing to the fight.

---

Yeah. I spent 7 weeks getting gears for that DRK weapon from O4N only for the meta to shift towards PLD and WAR. So among my personal grievances since 3.0 I'm pretty pissed off. And I refuse to level PLD because of the super buffs it got. I wasn't getting on the bandwagon and still won't.

So I basically waited 2 months for my shit class to stay shit and get shit on. What fun.

The PLD band wagon still has crappy suspension so it makes for a bumpy ride.To me (really shouldn't have to emphasize that this is my opinion based on MY personal experience.) It plays like cold butter on soft bread, gameplay wise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

But, not every class will have an equal ability to do it, and trying to take a weaker job into it at all seems like you're shooting yourself in the foot.

---

That's the problem in the first place. Why we have a weaker job?




i've now levelled my warrior to lv70 and raid-wise my support to the group is far better in any aspect. And i'm not talking about Ultimate, but regular o3s/o4s.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crater

If SE's attitude toward class balance is "Hey, we said this is hard, so if you can't clear it on a certain class that's not our problem!" then I'd like them to be up front about that so that people have a chance to unsubscribe from the game.

The chances that they feel that way are close to zero, and the chances that you are actually literally unable to clear the fight with a DRK are about as small, but I've yet to see anyone even come close to saying anything like "Actually, DRK might be better than [PLD/WAR] in this one!" and can't really imagine a situation where that would be the case, so hopefully that (combined with plenty of feedback elsewhere) will be enough of a shock to SE's sytem to do something about it, sooner rather than later.

---

Therein lies the answer as to why a lot of DRK mains have yet to stop subscribing to/playing the game... they want to squeeze every bit of money they can by withholding information...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

I mean, I know this is gonna come off as dickish, but if the creators themselves said this challenge isn't for just anyone, and that to even get to attempt it you need to clear o4s, it implies you need to go into it expecting it to be ""unfair"". To expect every class, flaws and all, to be able to effectively clear this content seems too expectant IMO. Yes, every class should be able to do all content, that much I agree with. But, not every class will have an equal ability to do it, and trying to take a weaker job into it at all seems like you're shooting yourself in the foot.

---

DRK's new Job Description.

"A knight that fights the injustice of the self righteous. They are however the weakest of the front liners and do not take damage as well as their bretheren. Unable to swing their huge oversized swords effectively, their only ability is to make some very dark and edgy particles while costing an arm and a leg!!"

Here are some recent notable reviews from the players!

"drk sucks"
"delete drk"
"dont play drk, not meta"

Be a dark knight today! Be the weakest class in Stormblood that will be shunned by the community due to their overall ineffectiveness!

- SE

In an expansion promising balance they've somehow managed to make one tank indisputably the worst in its role by every conceivable metric of consequence, and moreover, they've managed to cement it in that position just in time to release perhaps the most difficult content in the game's history. At this point I'm just dying to know why.

Fights like UCOB should be released only after every possible balance adjustment needed has been addressed in some form or fashion. The gate to entry should be clearing o4s or whatever the 4th floor of a given tier may be, and not what job you are playing. In a 12-13 minute fight there is more than enough time to feature mechanics that play to every job's strengths, but if you're putting a fight like this out there when there are jobs that *have* no strengths, its a major slap in the face. Even if DRK is not "optimal" for the fight, it should at least have something to bring to the table, should you decide to use it. DRK wasn't optimal for A7s either, but people could still bring it back in the day because while PLD was better for that particular fight in the eyes of most people, DRK still had things to offer, such as higher DPS, softening up sizzle spark a bit, etc.

When your main job is in the state that DRK is and a fight like UCOB comes out, it sucks, really bad. Functioning at a disadvantage like this when every job has to be at their best to compete feels awful, before you even queue in.

Not sure if everyone saw this, but did we see the reason for the shake it off buff?

«Warrior»
Warrior’s party utility will be increased by changing the effect of Shake It Off and adjusting its party defending capabilities to be more in balance with that of paladin and dark knight.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/350624

I'm guessing their response to TBN feedback is that our utility is equivalent to paladin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

snip

---

yeah i saw it too this morning, was hilarious read "in balance", i did not know if laugh or just facepalm, i did both.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shao32

yeah i saw it too this morning, was hilarious read "in balance", i did not know if laugh or just facepalm, i did both.

---

I've been saying since the beginning that as powerful as TBN is for ourselves, it is not all it is cracked up to be on a party member. I've seen regens tick for bigger numbers than a 10% TBN is worth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Warrior’s party utility will be increased by changing the effect of Shake It Off and adjusting its party defending capabilities to be more in balance with that of paladin and dark knight.

---

We must have a party mitigation skill to unlock somewhere then xD

The whole DrK situation is starting to appear really grotesquely.

Do they think Reprisal is still a DRK only skill still?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Not sure if everyone saw this, but did we see the reason for the shake it off buff?

I'm guessing their response to TBN feedback is that our utility is equivalent to paladin.

---

How they came up with that idea is beyond me and sounds like they want to go back to 2.xx party comps... the solution for is so simple yet they choose to make things more complicated for balance adjustments...

It just sounds like scripted lines they would say infront of everyone anyways. Be nice if a dev just sat down and spoke their minds in regards to a class.

A part of me questions how they actually test these supposed "balancing" issues. Do they just look at numbers and charts or do they actually have a group work on a class, play the class in content, get the overall feel of what it can/cant do well then compare it to other classes.

[SARCASM] DRK is just as good as pld whatre you talkin' about! [SARCASM]

https://youtu.be/5dGp6vwKMHE

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mycow8me

It just sounds like scripted lines they would say infront of everyone anyways. Be nice if a dev just sat down and spoke their minds in regards to a class.

A part of me questions how they actually test these supposed "balancing" issues. Do they just look at numbers and charts or do they actually have a group work on a class, play the class in content, get the overall feel of what it can/cant do well then compare it to other classes.

---

I don't think they have the manpower to devote a group to each class. Or even one person per class.

It seems pretty clear that SE doesn't know what to do with DRK and/or doesn't care at all. Stormblood has been out for months and Dark Passenger is still so useless most people don't have it on their bars. SE may touch it again in 5.0, and then thoroughly screw one of the other tanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Not sure if everyone saw this, but did we see the reason for the shake it off buff?

«Warrior»
Warrior’s party utility will be increased by changing the effect of Shake It Off and adjusting its party defending capabilities to be more in balance with that of paladin and dark knight.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/350624

I'm guessing their response to TBN feedback is that our utility is equivalent to paladin.

---

I guess our skill is just as good as PLD's wings... oh wait, it's not even as good as PLD's Cover.
But we're still equals guys.

Mr. Happy just (kind of) called for us to get a buff in his vs. video. Kind of half-cocked but I guess its some publicity since devs clearly don't care about anything posted here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

Mr. Happy just (kind of) called for us to get a buff in his vs. video. Kind of half-cocked but I guess its some publicity since devs clearly don't care about anything posted here.

---

Ill watch it, but sadly the biggest hurdle facing DRK to getting any buffs is, overall, the amount of people who play, and even "main," tanks. If it's sincere and not a "You wanna know how best to gear DRK? Go to your armoury chest and equip a WAR weapon" remark from Xeno.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

Ill watch it, but sadly the biggest hurdle facing DRK to getting any buffs is, overall, the amount of people who play, and even "main," tanks. If it's sincere and not a "You wanna know how best to gear DRK? Go to your armoury chest and equip a WAR weapon" remark from Xeno.

---

I was starting to really like and respect Xeno towards the latter half of 3.x. But he's made it clear that as far as his influence within the community, he's not going to stick his neck out for any job other than WAR no matter how bad it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

Mr. Happy just (kind of) called for us to get a buff in his vs. video. Kind of half-cocked but I guess its some publicity since devs clearly don't care about anything posted here.

---

I'm just glad that Happy is voicing that DRK needs fixing. Sure he may not have hit all the problems with it and all the "pros" he listed for it were also strangely called out as cons when he talked about DRK, but at least it was clearly stated that DRK was discernibly the worst of the tanks and by a good amount. Also since a good portion of the playerbase likes to just take what the well known YouTubers say as gospel and parrot it back ad nauseum, seeing this makes.me hope that maybe they'll start parroting this and finally we'll maybe get some acknowledgement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

I was starting to really like and respect Xeno towards the latter half of 3.x. But he's made it clear that as far as his influence within the community, he's not going to stick his neck out for any job other than WAR no matter how bad it is.

---

Xeno's a great player, but his bias towards and preference for WAR is, and always has been, extremely obvious.

"So PLDs are basically perfect right now, WARs are basically perfect right now, and DRKs are just lacking a little bit but still super fun to play? Good job, SE! I'm sure they'll get on those DRK changes shortly..."

Comment from happy's video. This is probably what most of the playerbase is thinking, sadly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

I was starting to really like and respect Xeno towards the latter half of 3.x. But he's made it clear that as far as his influence within the community, he's not going to stick his neck out for any job other than WAR no matter how bad it is.

---

Actually he has stated on his stream multiple times DRK needs to get buffed we are all biased towards our favourite class but he definitely does like DRK too he did say the class needs more damage and that the mitigation tools/tbn is horrible and the ways its designed all around is fucking stupid he praised the old 3.0 DRK for its versatility and risk/reward/skill balance.

TLDR Xeno has definitely shown his dislike for SE's actions regarding DRK often calling them retarded.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dio_Tiferet

Actually he has stated on his stream multiple times DRK needs to get buffed we are all biased towards our favourite class but he definitely does like DRK too he did say the class needs more damage and that the mitigation tools/tbn is horrible and the ways its designed all around is fucking stupid he praised the old 3.0 DRK for its versatility and risk/reward/skill balance.

TLDR Xeno has definitely shown his dislike for SE's actions regarding DRK often calling them retarded.

---

I'm aware that he does this on stream. To be perfectly frank though I wish he would make a youtube video or something.

Its not gonna change a thing the outcry has been big enough to warrant SE addressing it but they refuse to do so a video wont change that. We just gotta make do with what we got and adapt because SE does not seem to prioritize balancing out the classes even when they are starting to get blocked from content.

As far as Xeno goes i think he has been vocal enough but i also think its not up to him to hit up SE and telling them to get their shit together hes probably been dealing with these balance issues throughout the game long enough to know its futile and we just gotta adapt to whatever the meta demands.