New Jobs Gated Behind Completion of 2.0 Story?

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

True. It's already happened on this very issue. They've made a complete reversal of their earlier position that the jobs would be available regardless of story progression. Now people are waiting to see whether they'll flip back again.

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... You have a link? Please tell me it wasn't an unofficial translation.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

... You have a link? Please tell me it wasn't an unofficial translation.

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http://i.gyazo.com/ed62d177c244475b02a7fc084ae81dbf.png

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

http://i.gyazo.com/ed62d177c244475b02a7fc084ae81dbf.png

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When you put the two stories side by side like that....that is a VERY massive mistranslation on the author's part originally lol. How they got "You'll be able to use them at any time, I'd recommend leveling as one of the new jobs while catching up on the story" from the actual response is beyond me. That's Yahoo Journalist level.

The heck? They are completely different! LOL

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

http://i.gyazo.com/ed62d177c244475b02a7fc084ae81dbf.png

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The original answer there was the original expected translation, however the Yoshi statement was the correct answer. Yoshi did not change his mind, it was mistranslated by the fan.

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Originally Posted by SlyTribal

The original answer there was the original expected translation, however the Yoshi statement was the correct answer. Yoshi did not change his mind, it was mistranslated by the fan.

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Precisely, this proves it was never one plan later reversed. In light of this evidence, it is easy to presume that SE always intended for these three jobs to be more difficult to earn.

Misinformation, how I hate thee.

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Originally Posted by SlyTribal

The original answer there was the original expected translation, however the Yoshi statement was the correct answer. Yoshi did not change his mind, it was mistranslated by the fan.

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That article was posted by Justin Massongill on Mar 07, 2015 // SCEA Social Media Specialist.

I suppose you can consider an employee of Sony Computer Entertainment America LLC a fan...and whoever the editor of the official playstation blog site that added the correction.

The blog post is linked in the OP of this thread but here it is again. (LINK)


Also if interested...

LinkedIn profile for Justin Massongill



EDIT:

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Precisely, this proves it was never one plan later reversed. In light of this evidence, it is easy to presume that SE always intended for these three jobs to be more difficult to earn.

Misinformation, how I hate thee.

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Yes, i too hate misinformation.



EDIT 2:

Sorry, just noticing my first sentence might sound like i'm implying the poster was the one that translated.

This is found at the bottom of that article:

"Quotations provided through an on-site translator. They have been edited for brevity and clarity."

So it took 2 weeks and 69 pages to find out it was a mistranslation?

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Originally Posted by Lexia

So it took 2 weeks and 69 pages to find out it was a mistranslation?[/IMG]

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This entire thread has happened before, and it will happen again.

Whats done is done. Can't argue with the decision of a developer.

Oh the humanity - having to play the game to access other parts of the game! Say it ain't so!

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Originally Posted by Fenral

This entire thread has happened before, and it will happen again.

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And will keep on happening. Thus we have been taught by Blazblue and it's chronolooping bullshite.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

So it took 2 weeks and 69 pages to find out it was a mistranslation?

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PR statements are usually very crafted and deliberate in their word use and the editor using the words clarification and updated insstead of corrected (i know i used that word and i shouldn't have) gives me the vibe that it's not a mistranslation.

Especially since there's that statement that the quotes are from an onsite translator and edited for "brevity and clarity."

(Don't know how they did the Q&A but i assume they have transcript/recordings they can go back over for their editing for clarity.)


But what do i know. Perhaps someone who is fluent in japanese could chime in if it's actually possible to mistranslate the two seemingly very different statements.

I'm especially interested if it's possible with these:

OLD: "If a player had stopped playing around patch 2.2 or 2.3, I’d recommend choosing one of the new jobs and leveling that up while catching up on the story, then transitioning into Heavensward."

NEW: "If a player had stopped playing around Patch 2.2 or 2.3, it would be best to revisit the A Realm Reborn main story quests to get back into the groove as you head towards Heavensward!"

Or is this another personal housing type of "clarification"?

Looking through tons of the pages, it seems almost every one of us commenting has a 50 or multiple 50s, and almost surely have finished 2.55. Unless we are trying to get friends to play, and therefore really concerned with the new player experience, maybe we should all agree to disagree on whether or not jobs will be gated. I'm sure we all want a vibrant and thriving community, but at this point until SE releases anything new - since it doesn't matter to we who are posting -- maybe we should let it the topic die an honorable death :P

Edit: As Y'kayah mentioned further up, I also forgot those who are re-rolling alt Au Ra -- they, too, would be heavily influenced by the newbie experience ^^

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Originally Posted by Blueyes

That's honestly my question, though. Referring to Dragoon as another example, the main NPC you interact with is found out in Coerthas. Currently jobs don't really have "guilds" to begin with, but they decided to use those for the new jobs while also placing them behind the gates of Ishgard. They could have placed the job quest NPCs out in Coerthas like they did with Dragoon, but they chose not to and for reasons that haven't been explained.

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for 2 of those answers you can find the relevant information here: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/heavensward/

http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/p....png?2caac64v1 http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/p....png?8030151v1

When did they update the Heavensward site?

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

When did they update the Heavensward site?

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Not sure when, but they did.

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

When did they update the Heavensward site?

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Earlier today or last night was the first time anyone mentioned it.

They didn't mention anything on Lodestone or the game launcher, odd....

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

They didn't mention anything on Lodestone or the game launcher, odd....

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This is SE so... baby steps. They did mentioned that they updated the website on the Heavensward website so the idea almost crossed the finish line.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

So it took 2 weeks and 69 pages to find out it was a mistranslation?

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No. It wasn't a mis-translation. It was two different statements. After the first one was published, SE contacted them to provide a new statement that differed from the original, so they added that clarification statement (along with the original one). That's SE reversing their position between the two statements.

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

What she meant is that no one of the job has, so far, a lore that demands them to be strictly inside the city, making the option to put them outside of Ishgard (Coerthas, other explorable zones that HOPEFULLY won't be gated by flying or such) reasonable.

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But, they kinda do.

Again, Sharlayan is on the other side of Dravania. If that's where we're getting AST training, well, that's gonna require going through Ishgard. Even if they've made the trek through Dravania to Ishgard, we know that proper astrology uses telescopes and such. They could use the Observatorium, but we've already been told that the astrologians there aren't the combat type. You also want your astrologians to be defended, and Ishgard's as defended as you're going to get.

I've already touched on DRK. Their entire thing is hunting down Ishgardian elites who would otherwise be above the law. Even if their operations sometimes range outside of the city proper (which I'm sure they will), the only place that makes sense for their headquarters is within the city. Sure, maybe not on the palace steps, but it's going to be within the city.

MCH as a job is directly growing out of how the Ishgardians are using machinery in the Dragonsong War. Everyone who has gotten any experience as a MCH lives in Ishgard. It's the youngest of the jobs we have, and I'd argue that there hasn't been much time for people familiar with it to set up shop outside the city.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

Looking through tons of the pages, it seems almost every one of us commenting has a 50 or multiple 50s, and almost surely have finished 2.55.

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I for one will be starting at level 1 once Heavensward comes, because I want an Au Ra character. Sure, I'd be able to get the new jobs for Y'kayah with only a little more preparation (to finish through 2.55), but my focus is going to be on my new Au Ra character. I'd rather have him main the new jobs than play one character to see the new jobs and a different character to see the new race.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

They could use the Observatorium, but we've already been told that the astrologians there aren't the combat type. You also want your astrologians to be defended, and Ishgard's as defended as you're going to get.

I've already touched on DRK. Their entire thing is hunting down Ishgardian elites who would otherwise be above the law. Even if their operations sometimes range outside of the city proper (which I'm sure they will), the only place that makes sense for their headquarters is within the city.

MCH as a job is directly growing out of how the Ishgardians are using machinery in the Dragonsong War.

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I've mentioned this before but just to reiterate, lore is a reason but not a good reason to alter game design. It's usually the other way around. You have an idea for content and you make up lore to conform it to the existing game. Just as the devs have done with their newly updated lore description of those jobs.

However, lore could be made to conform that content the other way. Here's what i can come up with as i reply to your post:

Astrologians: The coerthas ones are observers and fortune tellers but seeing the imminent threat, they have joined forces with the combat-centric branch of astrology to help in the fight. And found it prudent to not have all of the mentors of the new art be concentrated in the very place that will
be under siege so some sought refuge in outposts such as Coerthas to recruit more students for the fight.

Machinists: Cid Garlond demonstrated the utility of magitek weaponry so the Ishgardians sought his help to train and develop specialists to aid in arming Ishgard. Due to the Ul'dahn forces searching to incarcerate the Scion compatriots, Alphinaud has managed to procure a secluded workshop in the Isle Of Umbra for Cid to help with this training.

Dark Knight: (partly borrowed from the actual SE lore) These sentinels bear no shields declaring their allegiance they scoured all the lands of Eorzea for kindred spirits willing to help defend their homeland. Being pariahs in their own lands, they spread out in various regions to seek these adventurous souls.


As i said, they can conform lore into however shows a semblance of logic to justify their design decisions...lore don't often dictate how they design content, just how it's introduced.

They could've just as easily altered lore to make it not locked behind Ishgard.

EDIT: Personal belief (no real evidence whatsoever)...something probably happened that made them change their job design so it HAS to require an iLvl 90+ character so they redesigned the jobs and then shoehorned the lore.

People like to say that these new jobs are not tied to classes but technically, they are. They're just not tied to a specific class, but only way to have an i90 character is to already have an existing combat class when you unlock these. And maybe for whatever reason, they didn't just need an existing base class but an ilvl 90 one.

If that's the case, whatever that requirement was, may be too late to change at this point. But feedback is still good in that maybe they shouldn't do this again for the next jobs...just in case they're thinking of locking say, red mage behind the full 3.0 story.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

I for one will be starting at level 1 once Heavensward comes, because I want an Au Ra character. Sure, I'd be able to get the new jobs for Y'kayah with only a little more preparation (to finish through 2.55), but my focus is going to be on my new Au Ra character. I'd rather have him main the new jobs than play one character to see the new jobs and a different character to see the new race.

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You can always start a new char now and use Fantasia later on. Or just use the story to level up classes that would be needed for cross class

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Originally Posted by SlyTribal

You can always start a new char now and use Fantasia later on. Or just use the story to level up classes that would be needed for cross class

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My question is, if you have alts and stuff....do you have to restart the whole MSQ again? I think you may.
So if your planning to make an alt Au Ra then have fun running the gauntlet again lol.
Edit: Sorry I meant to add, to access Ishgard and stuff.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

I for one will be starting at level 1 once Heavensward comes, because I want an Au Ra character. Sure, I'd be able to get the new jobs for Y'kayah with only a little more preparation (to finish through 2.55), but my focus is going to be on my new Au Ra character. I'd rather have him main the new jobs than play one character to see the new jobs and a different character to see the new race.

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But you could use a Fantasia to transform your current character (with all its accomplishments and achievements) into an Aura. The Heavensward Collectors Edition comes with another Fantasia in case you don't have yours anymore or if you planned on buying the CE. I don't think I could start a new character >_> Leveling every DoW, DoM, DoL and DoH job to 50 (and then 60) again, getting my pvp rank up, doing all the zodiac quests again (I'm on my 4th), all the supras (these 20 HQ sovereigns *shudder)... I couldn't do that again, even though I've turned out to be quite the grinder it seems. So I guess when HW hits my character will undergo all kinds of surgery XD

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Originally Posted by SQBoard

I've mentioned this before but just to reiterate, lore is a reason but not a good reason to alter game design. It's usually the other way around. You have an idea for content and you make up lore to conform it to the existing game. Just as the devs have done with their newly updated lore description of those jobs.

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I'm not trying to say that I think it should be gated behind 2.55. I'm just saying that all the information we have says that it is, and the lore they've written is reasonable and consistent with that.

For the record, my stance on it is that I don't mind it so much for now (since it's the first xpac), but think it's something they should eventually change.

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Originally Posted by SQBoard

Personal belief (no real evidence whatsoever)...something probably happened that made them change their job design so it HAS to require an iLvl 90+ character so they redesigned the jobs and then shoehorned the lore.

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Judging from the original answer in that article, I don't think it was the jobs that got the re-design. It sounds like they originally intended that anyone with the expansion could enter Ishgard and only the Main Scenario continuation would be locked behind the current Main Scenario. With that plan (if that really was their original plan) they could have had the quests to unlock the jobs be in Ishgard and anyone with the expansion could go there to do them so long as they met the level 30 or so requirement.

But then at some point SE decided or realized that they could do something better, probably with the Heavensward MSQ, if they knew for certain we'd done the full 2.55 story before even entering Ishgard proper. So they added that introductory quest that leads you there and locked the city until it's done. Well, since they'd already decided the jobs were going to be headquartered in Ishgard and now the city was locked behind the 2.55 story, the jobs sort of ended up locked behind it as well.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Judging from the original answer in that article, I don't think it was the jobs that got the re-design. It sounds like they originally intended that anyone with the expansion could enter Ishgard and only the Main Scenario continuation would be locked behind the current Main Scenario. With that plan (if that really was their original plan) they could have had the quests to unlock the jobs be in Ishgard and anyone with the expansion could go there to do them so long as they met the level 30 or so requirement.

But then at some point SE decided or realized that they could do something better, probably with the Heavensward MSQ, if they knew for certain we'd done the full 2.55 story before even entering Ishgard proper. So they added that introductory quest that leads you there and locked the city until it's done. Well, since they'd already decided the jobs were going to be headquartered in Ishgard and now the city was locked behind the 2.55 story, the jobs sort of ended up locked behind it as well.

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Since we're unlikely to know the real reason, your theory is possible.

For me, i just can't see any change in the heavensward story so drastic that it has to specifically lock those jobs. Yes, it seemingly looks like they originally planted those job contacts in the 3.0 zones that they originally made accessible with just the expac license and a lvl 30 combat class requirement.

But even if they felt the need to lock down all 3.0 zones behind the story, i don't see why those npc job locations can't be moved outside of Ishgard at the same time with their current phasing tech (only expac users can see the contacts). So they can still lock Ishgard but keep the jobs available as originally planned.

As my hastily constructed examples from my last post demonstrates, it's possible to explain why those contacts are lingering in the 2.0 zones instead of the 3.0 zones.

EDIT:

Thinking about it...i suppose it's possible that something made them lock the all of the 3.0 zones, not just some of it but their production schedule was so tight (or backlogged) that moving the job contacts and all necessary related changes outside of those zones would take more time than they had so it was easier to just leave them there. (/shrug)

That would fit my impression of how they do things.

I mean, they couldn't make personal housing completely separate from fc housing so they just modified their existing housing tech to remove the fc requirement. When the persistent zones where getting overcrowded, it was way too late to change them to the same way other mmo games have done and just generate a new instance (new gridania[7]) when it reaches capacity so they instead put character creation restrictions so the newbie zones won't get flooded.

(Again, just my impression...no real evidence to support that last bit.)

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

I'm not trying to say that I think it should be gated behind 2.55. I'm just saying that all the information we have says that it is, and the lore they've written is reasonable and consistent with that.

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I wasn't addressing your preference to gate or not to gate. As that part of my post you quoted, i acknowledged that the devs made the updated job lore to fit their gated design.

But as the rest of my post continues, i put forward the notion that they could've just as easily written that lore to fit a non-story gated design.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Correction: this is an "MMO"RPG, Massively Multiplayer Online, and story should never be the main focus of these kind of games:

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There are many, many other options for MMOs that aren't based around the story. FFXIV fills a niche by being heavily storycentric and not just pointless, mindless grinding for no other reason than "teh Shiniez", as which I said, there are many others that fill that style.

All Final Fantasy games are heavy story based, why sould you expect it to change with 14? Play it for it is, a storycentric MMORPG not try and approach it as every other MMO out there.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

But, they kinda do.

Again, Sharlayan is on the other side of Dravania. If that's where we're getting AST training, well, that's gonna require going through Ishgard. Even if they've made the trek through Dravania to Ishgard, we know that proper astrology uses telescopes and such. They could use the Observatorium, but we've already been told that the astrologians there aren't the combat type. You also want your astrologians to be defended, and Ishgard's as defended as you're going to get.

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SPOILER ALERT!

Sharlayan is destroyed and is likely the zone called "The Churning Mist". However Astrologians are known to be located in Central Coerthas so they could easily be the trainers.

Just sitting here at work, and I had a really nasty thought:

What if to be a Machinist, you have to have a level 50 DPS character?

Or for Dark Knight, you have to have played a tank to 50?

Or for Astrologian, you had to be a healer for 50 levels?

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Originally Posted by Kikoten

Just sitting here at work, and I had a really nasty thought:

What if to be a Machinist, you have to have a level 50 DPS character?

Or for Dark Knight, you have to have played a tank to 50?

Or for Astrologian, you had to be a healer for 50 levels?

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Covered, thank god.... >.> <.< Made sure to have a 50 healer, tank, rdps, and mdps just for FC use ^^

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

SPOILER ALERT!

Sharlayan is destroyed and is likely the zone called "The Churning Mist". However Astrologians are known to be located in Central Coerthas so they could easily be the trainers.

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Just to clarify this lil' point, Sharlayan is definitely not destroyed at all. According to the story the "Isle of Val" is what got completely "removed" from existence. The actual homeland of Sharlayan exists north of the continent of Aldenard. The Isle of Val is a colony of scholars and such from Sharlayan founded by them.

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Originally Posted by Yamimarik

Just to clarify this lil' point, Sharlayan is definitely not destroyed at all. According to the story the "Isle of Val" is what got completely "removed" from existence. The actual homeland of Sharlayan exists north of the continent of Aldenard. The Isle of Val is a colony of scholars and such from Sharlayan founded by them.

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Yes Val was completely removed from existence, however Yamimarik, just like Riverne Sites A and B were the results of the destruction/loss of Tavnazia with the Lightbringer sword, I have a feeling something of the same effect is happening in Sharlayan/Val area. I doubt we will be able to go there, and if we do it will be in a ruinous state as Minfilia-iirc-said that she was unable to get contact from anyone in that area, and Urianger confirms Sharlayan's silence. Not to mention there was a spoilery dungeon reveal with a massive library of sorts filled with monsters. Doubt that (obviously Sharlayan library) filled with monsters and a Demon Book is inhabited by local scholars...

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

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SE has stated that the Astrologian (job) is different from the Astrologian (trade) in Coerthas, in fact the Japanese version has two different names for each; it just so happens that those words are both translated as "Astrologian" in English, so there's confusion.

HOWEVER, it's not that difficult to implement an AST NPC at the Observatorium all the same.

Astrologian Job NPC: "I came here in the hope to share my knowledge with these other students of divination, but it seems no one of them is interested in my methods! Egads, don't they know reading books and watching stars alone will not save them from the Dravanian Horde? What says you, adventurer? How about you become my pupil and show these fools what a real Astrologian can do to help the wheels of fate turn in one ally's favor?"

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Again, Sharlayan is on the other side of Dravania. If that's where we're getting AST training, well, that's gonna require going through Ishgard. Even if they've made the trek through Dravania to Ishgard, we know that proper astrology uses telescopes and such. They could use the Observatorium, but we've already been told that the astrologians there aren't the combat type. You also want your astrologians to be defended, and Ishgard's as defended as you're going to get.

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The Astrologian job is not the same as the Ishgardian Astrologians referenced previously. The Astrologian is Sharlayan, foreign. You know Ishgards stance on foreigners as well as I do.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

I've already touched on DRK. Their entire thing is hunting down Ishgardian elites who would otherwise be above the law. Even if their operations sometimes range outside of the city proper (which I'm sure they will), the only place that makes sense for their headquarters is within the city. Sure, maybe not on the palace steps, but it's going to be within the city.

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Oh I see, you're getting an Inquisition or police force vibe. I'm thinking more vigilante or robin hood type thing. One of them could be based inside the city, one of them definitely would not.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

MCH as a job is directly growing out of how the Ishgardians are using machinery in the Dragonsong War. Everyone who has gotten any experience as a MCH lives in Ishgard. It's the youngest of the jobs we have, and I'd argue that there hasn't been much time for people familiar with it to set up shop outside the city.

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Everyone with MCH experience lives in Ishgard? That seems a bit of a stretch, we know Ishgardians live outside of Ishgard, they have other towns and settlements. Not only that but the job is inspired by Cid, who it definitely not Ishgardian. If the job is inspired by recent breakthroughs in magitek it would imply those breakthroughs are experimental. Having that inside the city seems a bit like putting an experimental weapons lab run by a foreigner in the middle of more xenophobic new york.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Everyone with MCH experience lives in Ishgard? That seems a bit of a stretch, we know Ishgardians live outside of Ishgard, they have other towns and settlements. Not only that but the job is inspired by Cid, who it definitely not Ishgardian. If the job is inspired by recent breakthroughs in magitek it would imply those breakthroughs are experimental. Having that inside the city seems a bit like putting an experimental weapons lab run by a foreigner in the middle of more xenophobic new york.

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exept it was said while the ixali quest that ishgard was recently gathering a loot of stuff link to the airship, they are probably getting ready to launch attack with Airship, that recquire machinist for be create and manned.

Cid is more an engineer or a researcher.... he is not a machinist. the machinist will be using technologie for fight, do you have seen Cid fight? even when they say that they will fight we never see him get a gun.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

exept it was said while the ixali quest that ishgard was recently gathering a loot of stuff link to the airship, they are probably getting ready to launch attack with Airship, that recquire machinist for be create and manned.

Cid is more an engineer or a researcher.... he is not a machinist. the machinist will be using technologie for fight, do you have seen Cid fight? even when they say that they will fight we never see him get a gun.

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Just reread the description of Machinist. You're right, it's inspired by Cid not run by him. It is still pretty clearly from an advanced weapons lab, people don't tend to put those in the middle of populated areas.