Inconsistencies with the sundering (Spoilers)

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

and then went back on it by publishing short stories and putting the stomp on merchandise to "hide their mistake" is a really dumb idea too.

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And what happens if they didn't post the short story resolving the two different versions of the sundering? Which version would we accept as canon?

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

If the cutscene wasn't an allegory/metaphorical, then what's your answer to Hytholdeus walking calmly past a giant man-eating monster with neither of them caring about each other? Did Venat also literally walk down a smoky hallway covered in blood while seeing shades of sad and angry people?

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We already addressed this. You're falling behind.

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Originally Posted by PeaTearGriffin

And what happens if they didn't post the short story resolving the two different versions of the sundering? Which version would we accept as canon?

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You don’t need the writers to hold your hand to be able to reconcile the fact that Hydaelyn stomped Zodiark and had more than just 1 reason to be summoned, as was stated back in the Shadowbringers patches.

But maybe we do need handholding and we need giant flashing warnings in cutscenes now to tell us whether what we’re seeing is an artistic description of events condensed into one thing or if it’s meant to be taken literally.

Again, I think they should’ve done it literally and showed us the fight we should’ve had.

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Originally Posted by PeaTearGriffin

We already addressed this. You're falling behind.

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I was hoping for a better response than the one you gave that cherry picks parts of the cutscene that support your idea that it’s meant to be literal, but the part of it is “obviously metaphorical” doesn’t count so you’re supposed to think it’s literal and then metaphorical.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

If the cutscene wasn't an allegory/metaphorical, then what's your answer to Hytholdeus walking calmly past a giant man-eating monster with neither of them caring about each other? Did Venat also literally walk down a smoky hallway covered in blood while seeing shades of sad and angry people?

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I don't think the question is whether it's an allegory. It clearly is.

The problem is seeing where in that allegory you're supposed to see the allegorical outline of an epic fight between Hydaelyn and Zodiark, given that Venat seems to engage in sundering the world for purely philosophical reasons and not in battle.

There was an event where a person got killed by a monster. There was an event where Hythlodaeus farewelled Hades. They didn't happen at the same time but we see them overlapping.

By that assumption, the argument between Venat and the Zodiark worshippers also happened, but perhaps not in that time and place.

Where then is the room for the clash of primals? When do we shift from overlapping "real" events to pure metaphor? We clearly have by the time of Hydaelyn's "final walk", but that seems different to what came before.

The bait is strong in this thread.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

You don’t need the writers to hold your hand to be able to reconcile the fact that Hydaelyn stomped Zodiark and had more than just 1 reason to be summoned, as was stated back in the Shadowbringers patches. But maybe we do need handholding and we need giant flashing warnings in cutscenes now to tell us whether what we’re seeing is an artistic description of events condensed into one thing or if it’s meant to be taken literally.

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In the endwalker cutscene, whats the metaphor for hydaelyn's battle with zodiark? You can't answer that, can you.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I don't think the question is whether it's an allegory. It clearly is.

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If you’d been following the OP, he doesn’t think it’s an allegory.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Where then is the room for the clash of primals?

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I want to know why they didn’t put it in there too.

But just because they made a weird decision not to show it doesn’t mean that the writers for some reason decided to backtrack on it ever happening and then backtracked on backtracking and put it back in through short stories and jackets.

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Originally Posted by PeaTearGriffin

And what happens if they didn't post the short story resolving the two different versions of the sundering? Which version would we accept as canon?

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Honestly, this is an interesting thing to think about. If Tales of the Dawn didn't exist to correct the inconsistency between ShB's and EW's versions of what the true cause of the sundering was, I would probably go with ShB's version of the Sundering just because I like it more, lmao.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

But just because they made a weird decision not to show it doesn’t mean that the writers for some reason decided to backtrack on it ever happening and then backtracked on backtracking and put it back in through short stories and jackets.

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Let's be real here. Tales of the Dawn does help provide clarity to the audience on what the cause of the Sundering was. I want to say that it was definitely put there to help clear things up.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Honestly, this is an interesting thing to think about. If Tales of the Dawn didn't exist to correct the inconsistency between ShB's and EW's versions of what the true cause of the sundering was, I would probably go with ShB's version of the Sundering just because I like it more, lmao.

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I seem to have missed Tales of the Dawn adding new information on this? Venat's chapter with the Watcher was bogged down in as much vagueness as the cutscene.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I seem to have missed Tales of the Dawn adding new information on this? Venat's chapter with the Watcher was bogged down in as much vagueness as the cutscene.

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The Tales of the Dawn sidestory, A Friendship of Record, seems a little more indicative of there being some kind of fight between Hydaelyn and Zodiark.

"Venat's faction thus resolved to manifest an entity capable of shackling that power. To have any chance at defeating the nigh-omnipotent Zodiark, however, the sacrifice must be absolute."

- https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../#sidestory_01

The language is still somewhat ambiguous as it doesn't explicitly say "Hydaelyn and Zodiark go head to head in a battle," or something along those lines, but I can at least now believe that there was some sort of major conflict between them prior to the Sundering.