Hissatsu: Kaiten

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Originally Posted by SnowVix

it only exists to punish if you mis-count your Kenki and use one too many of the oGCDs, as it's only useful before an Iaijutsu or Ogi Namikiri.

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It's only being removed to further simplify another class...
The reasoning was due to DPS fluctuation from crits so they also guaranteed crits on your Iaijustu.
May as well remove crit from the game as well and make everything crit right? No more RNG dps as it makes things to complex.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

That sounds like a pretty good future to be honest. Complexity for the sake of complexity doesn't add anything of value to the game and new summoner is some of the most fun I've had in a while.

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Class complexity exists so there is a skill ceiling and a skill floor for players. So players that want to spend time to understand a class more can perform better and are rewarded for there efforts. Taking this away makes there no point in caring about learning a class at all. So it does add value to the game.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Hissatsu: Kaiten is also known as Dark Arts. That is probably why.

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Them what do you call Sages Eukrasia?

Eukrasia is a GCD its only vaguely similar to DRK arts with its effect change,
but its no where near as spammable nor does it cost any resources.

also gurren is cool don't merge it with senei

shoha should just turn into an AOE
merge Tsubame and Iajutsu
third eye might aswell be deleted
and i don't think Yaten is necessary

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Eukrasia is a GCD its only vaguely similar to DRK arts with its effect change,
but its no where near as spammable nor does it cost any resources.

also gurren is cool don't merge it with senei

shoha should just turn into an AOE
merge Tsubame and Iajutsu
third eye might aswell be deleted
and i don't think Yaten is necessary

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too much gutting/simplifying I hate your idea as much as devs idea, leave third eye alone already made it easier to use.

The problem is that there are just so many other ways to get rid of button bloat. Kaiten was _FUN_ to press, because you know that you're buffing that big hit that is coming, you watch your character twirl its sword. It was fun, regardless of whether it was "only there to punish you if you miscounted kenki."

They could have instead (I'm not suggesting they actually do any of these, I'm just listing "better", IMO, ways of cleaning it up):

Combine Tsubame-gaeshi and Iajutsu so you just press Iajutsu again to repeat
Combine Shoha and Shoha II into a single attack that does X damage to target + AE fall off damage
Combine Guren and Senei into a single attack that does X damage to target + AE fall off damage
Combine Shinten and Kyuten into a single attack that does X damage to target + AE fall off damage
Combine Gyoten and Yaten into a single ability that takes you to an enemy/friendly (I'm not sure how often these are really used in more difficult content though, admittedly)

Hell, even changing the 3/3/2 combos to 3/2/2 would have felt better than this change.

It was just another version of OG Dark Arts thats all. We knew it was coming. Just like next expansion they are going to go after Sage Eukrasia

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Originally Posted by Derio

It was just another version of OG Dark Arts thats all. We knew it was coming. Just like next expansion they are going to go after Sage Eukrasia

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I find it funny when people compare Kaiten to Dark Arts as if that's an excuse to remove it.

As if Dark Knight isn't currently having the biggest identity crisis of any job at the moment, because they no longer have a job-defining skill like Dark Arts.

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Originally Posted by YukiB

I find it funny when people compare Kaiten to Dark Arts as if that's an excuse to remove it.

As if Dark Knight isn't currently having the biggest identity crisis of any job at the moment, because they no longer have a job-defining skill like Dark Arts.

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I don't think it was the removal of dark arts that left DRK without a job identity. It was the removal of... Everything else.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

That sounds like a pretty good future to be honest. Complexity for the sake of complexity doesn't add anything of value to the game and new summoner is some of the most fun I've had in a while.

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Please, for the love of all things decent, don't say that. Summoner went from the most complex DPS in the game that was adored by endgame players to something so simple you can't mess up unless you refuse to press buttons. There's nothing wrong with being a casual but "flashy lights and big monsters make me happy" is a terrible defense for it.

Random aside:

I like how Sage plays, but flavorfully *why* did it need to be the Dark Arts job? Why tf do we need to Eukrasia (lit. "good health") abilities that are already laser-charged with healing medicine? I guess a "laser-charging" gimmick is fine, I just don't think it is communicated especially well in the job's flavor.

On topic: I am sad to see Kaiten go. SAM and RDM are absolutely the Mystic Knight and Rune Fencer of the jobs (since DRK lost Dark Arts), and I don't want the devs to chip away their identities just to throw in a third? fourth? half-baked attempt at a Spellblade job. There are so many other jobs I would prefer over a sixth sword-magey job (seventh if you count NIN).

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Originally Posted by Derio

It was just another version of OG Dark Arts thats all. We knew it was coming. Just like next expansion they are going to go after Sage Eukrasia

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Sounds like someone has no idea what they are talking about.