6.08 Patch Notes

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

A large part of that is because of how easy it is to play ( look at the DPS difference between the skill floor and ceiling, the difference is way less ) and also because the game is so insanely flooded with RPR EVERYWHERE.
MNK is also an old Job while RPR is the new kid in town a lot of people stuck with MNK through thick and thin and I think people generally maybe have more respect for it getting some sunshine.
RPR kinda just came in, is way easier and Arcane Crest is incredibly powerful even post nerf and deals top tier damage it feels unfair.

Edit: To be clear tho I don't think that MNK needed a buff either.
But I also don't think that RPR deserves to be where it's at, it also gets a lot of stigma because a lot of the edgelord LARP:ers that gave SAM stigma play it in droves too.
And it kinda leaves a bad taste in peoples mouth when they can put out high numbers even tho being pretty bad.

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All i get from this is that the change monk needed was to be less punishing/easier. Saying a class doesnt deserve to do damage just feels like jealousy to me. Balance shouldnt be based on the difficulty of the job imo. If you want to play a harder job play it, but all jobs should be balanced at high end. (You can balance the average player by adjusting how punishing aspects of the class are to raise the floor of skill while not affecting the ceiling.) Also to be quite honest if you simply get full uptime on any class you will beat like 80% of the playerbase for this game because it is so incredibly casual friendly. (Not necessarily a bad thing) The issue I have is that at high end monk is just devastating now. And I expect it to get worse as people push monk optimization while reaper will probably have very little left to gain. I would like to have seen monk changed in making positionals less punishing or something to that tune than a potency buff. Also needed heavier drg/nin buffs and a more moderate sam buff.

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Originally Posted by AzazelCaine

This. Thank-you. I have always tried - even in snore-fest inducing content to carry my weight. I feel as it stands now, I just don't want to play MCH anymore, which is sad because it has been my main DPS since HW. I 100% understand the ranged DPS tax - but then how do you justify giving bard and dancer (who both bring party utility to the table) buffs over MCH? Tactician is given to all 3 in some form, please stop using that as "there is your utility". Something is glaringly rotton here and needs fixed before every group ends up being sage, reaper and warrior.

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Same here, MCH since HW.
In HW I was "too useful", in SB you had the horrible Flamethrower but the job remained useful.
In ShB, MCH wasn't the worst Ranged DPS, it would only bring DPS and that was it. A common feedback was "more utility", but this was ignored.
Now in 6.08, it still only brings DPS except this time it's behind DNC that can shield and heal.

Since media tour, I decided to go GNB/SGE. Went GNB, I don't have the DPS of a MCH but at least I feel useful to the party.
And that's what matters, what we want.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

A common feedback was "more utility", but this was ignored.

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Every subrole of DPS has a "selfish" job. MCH is the physical ranged selfish job. Unless they strip all the utility away from DNC or BRD (or make a new physical ranged), you're not getting utility.

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Originally Posted by SnowVix

Every subrole of DPS has a "selfish" job. MCH is the physical ranged selfish job. Unless they strip all the utility away from DNC or BRD (or make a new physical ranged), you're not getting utility.

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No, but they should buff MCH to be at the top of the physical ranged dps, before BRD and DNC. This ain't going to happen anytime due to the stupid "ranged tax" that limits the dps rang they have allocated to the role ("stupid" as the casters are pretty mobile themselves these days).

Once again SE proves its doesn't know what to do with MCH. I'd be down for gunmage back if they buffed damage to RPR/MNK levels.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Once again SE proves its doesn't know what to do with MCH. I'd be down for gunmage back if they buffed damage to RPR/MNK levels.

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I loved gunmage, although it would wind up being the most immobile job in the game at this point. We would need a mobility action next expac.

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Originally Posted by SnowVix

Every subrole of DPS has a "selfish" job. MCH is the physical ranged selfish job. Unless they strip all the utility away from DNC or BRD (or make a new physical ranged), you're not getting utility.

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We're two expansions in now and this philosophy has completely failed. They completely gutted all the nuance from Bard only to stare back with a Surprised Pikachu face when the community abandoned it wholesale. Machinist existed last expansion but it was pretty much the Dancer show by a country mile. Now we're in Endwalker and Bard utterly dominated until the 6.08 buffs made Dancer not a troll pick. Unfortunately, Machinist remains more or less worthless. So this is three years of them not being able to balance selfish/hybrid/buff jobs in the physical range role. And a good number of people don't want them to. They want old utility like Refresh and Palisade to come back.

What the devs envision just hasn't worked.

As someone who plays both Monk and Reaper (adoring the new job and Monks rework!!), it's weird seeing them pit against each other. Monk isn't even that much harder, and has the exact same 1-2-3 > build > spend > boom. It's just busier since they removed stances, imho. Either way it is a really weird take to say one should do less damage, when the current difference is minimal, because Mah Learning Curve.

The only jobs that needed serious TLC was PLD and DNC, and I hope those players feel better with their deserved buffs. Regardless, the gear funnel is a month in now. Next reset everyone should have access to a tome weapon (if you didn't get it already), and it's closing in on a "learn to play issue" if you can't hit dps checks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but baseline for all jobs currently is in line for all floor completions without a MNK or RPR in the party, so everything is pretty good.

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Originally Posted by Xiu_Ye

All i get from this is that the change monk needed was to be less punishing/easier. Saying a class doesnt deserve to do damage just feels like jealousy to me. Balance shouldnt be based on the difficulty of the job imo. If you want to play a harder job play it, but all jobs should be balanced at high end. (You can balance the average player by adjusting how punishing aspects of the class are to raise the floor of skill while not affecting the ceiling.) Also to be quite honest if you simply get full uptime on any class you will beat like 80% of the playerbase for this game because it is so incredibly casual friendly. (Not necessarily a bad thing) The issue I have is that at high end monk is just devastating now. And I expect it to get worse as people push monk optimization while reaper will probably have very little left to gain. I would like to have seen monk changed in making positionals less punishing or something to that tune than a potency buff. Also needed heavier drg/nin buffs and a more moderate sam buff.

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I just fundamentally disagree.
I think easier jobs should have a relatively stable dps and be a '' safe '' option.
Harder jobs should have both a higher skill ceiling and higher dps ceiling.

It sounds pretty logical to me.
I mean I could just as easily turn it around on you and say that what you're saying just sounds like you think people should be rewarded for less effort and not have to try.
In the end of the day I am talking about the Jobs potential not what the average player does or whatever.
If you want to have an easier option then I think that's fine and I don't even think it's a problem if they have high dps.
But I think that harder jobs should have the capacity to push higher at the cost of ease, I think that just makes for more interesting Job design too.

And I think most people would agree that it doesn't feel good to put more effort into something and get less or even the same out of it as someone who puts in less.
In the end of the day we're kinda all just monke lel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KSryJXDpZo .
But there's some logic in it I think and it's an understandable frustration and feeling.

Then why do play healer?