Can we get normal manly males ?

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Originally Posted by Awha

The norms are shifting to be more fluid and independently influenced. I think the times of a standard heroic figure are going to fade away. Best just get use to it.

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Yeah, nah. I like the standard heroic figure, and masculine males. Thanks, but no thanks.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Final Fantasy games have had numerous masculine playable characters, so I do not agree that people are playing the 'wrong game' to desire more conventionally attractive/masculine options for male characters.

It's intriguing to me that it is almost always people playing female characters who are swift to downplay concerns and requests based around male characters, though.

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You might have it slightly wrong. You see, it's not the wrong game. It's about the wrong, or less favourable/desirable, part of the playerbase.
Which is why the second thing you said is not so intriguing. It's a common theme I see specifically on XIV because the game panders a lot to female characters.

I am not disagreeing with you because more options is always a good thing. However, I like that there are pretty males in this game to choose from. I personally view my character as an extension of myself, and I don't identify as buff, manly male. But as I said, the option to have more manly males would not be a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Moonsprite

Favoritism towards female characters-not valid complaint

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I'm going to assume you've not played a male character in this game as your posts in the other thread heavily imply that you play/favour female characters. Or haven't played them as a main.

You just stated so many valid complaints that actually justify the favouritism. I don't understand. It's like you've listed points for an anti thesis.

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Originally Posted by Moonsprite

I am not saying, nor have I ever said, that male characters shouldn’t have more customization options. My argument here is about glamour. Guys have plenty of glamour to choose from. They just choose not to use it and complain how it doesn’t exist. Im sorry a lot of healer/caster stuff is too feminine for some guys, but tank glamour is bad if you’re a person who likes feminine options. It’s not a favoring female characters thing, it’s role discrimination. There is no thesis here. You guys don’t seem to want a discussion, you just want to be victims. “Oh, no one validates our concerns” uh I actually did with some. I don’t agree on the glamour as a whole that guys are victims here. Apparently, if I disagree with anything that you guys are saying I’m a man hater or I want to take everything away from you. It’s ridiculous.

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You said the 9s coffer argument is tiresome and that it basically has no merit because we got similar looking gear through the copied factory sets. Yet i refuted you by saying it’s the exact same for the 2b set for females, yet they still gave us the 2b coffer. That’s clear cut bias and pandering sorry. No other way to say it. Also with you saying try on the bozja gear. Literally 3 of the zadnor sets were modeled after a female character and given to the males with very little changes.In the 9s case, its not me choosing not to use it. The coffer doesnt exist in the first place, and the set for the roles that i play are vastly different from his actual glam.

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Originally Posted by Moonsprite

All the tome gear, all the Bozja gear, almost all the dungeon gear, almost all the Nier gear, all the Eden gear, all the crafted gear, all the pvp gear, all of the Ishgard gear is all masculine or neutral or gender locked different.

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We must've play a different game. Can you direct me to this alternate version of FFXIV where ALL of tomes, nier, eden, and crafted gears are masculine?

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Originally Posted by Moonsprite

Just because a girl wears it doesn’t mean it’s feminine. It’s literally a cyclist jumpsuit. The entire judge line? The entire line of southern front? So 3 neutral outfits out of 25 sets in Bozja is justifying your claims of bias?

Also it is tiresome, your 9S argument, you have an entire fashion show of 9S inspired gear. I said I’m sorry you didn’t get the 9S gear, but you did get 2B glamour. Female characters did not get a 9S equivalent at all. It is one example no one got the 9S gear. You literally die on this hill for this coffer. I can go back and see you mention this in about 50 posts in various threads across the forums.

Look, they didn’t give anyone 9S gear. Males got a 2B outfit instead. I imagine the outrage over genderlocked 2B butts would have been hundreds of times worse than your 9S coffer not being offered. They should’ve done the 9S glamour, but didn’t. This wasn’t favoring female characters, this was giving guys that wanted boots and thigh highs what they wanted. You lost your 9S armor because developers spent their time fitting 2Bs outfit on male characters.

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Yeah i talk about it a lot because its ridiculous. "Entire fashion show of 9s inspired gear" yet the same can be said for the 2b gear so again i ask what is your point? They literally gave us a raid series for a game thats full of females and has very little males in it and couldnt even give us the little amount of male things from it. Instead they chose to give us a feminine outfit. Yes it can be worn on males, that doesnt change the fact its a feminine outfit and we got no male equivalent. You seem to not like the argument because it refutes your entire argument. So i will keep mentioning it because its a very big example of what this thread is talking about. There is obvious favortism. Hell, yoko taro himself has stated it. Just look at the nier series. You think its a coincidence that we get solely a feminine gear coffer in the same raid series we fight a ball of naked female mannequins who then jump on eachother to combine?

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yeah, nah. I like the standard heroic figure, and masculine males. Thanks, but no thanks.

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Sure end of the day that may be your personal preference but I do still believe we are moving away from the standard view of the heroic figure and what is viewed as masculine to a more fluid personal choice that is influenced by different cultural and or social queues and trends.

I mean I could be wrong but I am still winning to put my money that what is viewed as masculine and heroic will largely differ greatly from say what it was 20 or 30 years ago moving forward.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Challenged by a very vocal microcosm on Twitter, in woke academia etc.* And when push comes to shove, many of these ardent man-hating types actually appear to have an attraction for the very type of man they try to vilify.

And tbf, they have a pretty large market in the West, so they ought to know their customer base.

However, even in countries like China, what is seen as originating as a subversive push against the Japanese to feminise and thereby weaken their men, is now rejected in strong terms by the China's ruling party, which has little time for that kind of thing. I don't think it will be long until this happens in Japan as well. It's not like this game is aimed at anything but a rather small minority of the Japanese public.

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That may be true though I do think the overall shift will be more so about the personal view as to what one would view as masculine or feminine which will have a ripple effect as to what some view as heroic and we will see a shift from the standard normative view that has been in place for years.

Guess overall I think it will be less about physical or attire in the future and more so other personally important traits that people will view as masculine or feminine and or heroic or not.

Only time will tell.

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Originally Posted by Moonsprite

I said tanking gear was neutral and masculine. I also said healer/caster gear were leaning neutral to feminine. Nice way to cherry pick what I wrote to try and prove a point. What I said was correct IMO.

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I'm not cherry picking. That's literally what you said in that paragraph as I quoted.

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Originally Posted by Moonsprite

Can your elezen go to Eulmore? Try on all the Eden fending gear, go to Bozja and try on those sets. The fending gear is always made with males in mind. Look at all the artifact gear for tanks, also made with guys in mind. The only time I get anything good is when it’s genderlocked. Even the new pld armor is going to have a great cape I won’t use because it’s probably going to be another shapeless plate armor.

The same bias exists for healing gear. Almost always feminine or neutral. This is because there is still this idea that healers are feminine and tanks are masculine. I’ve been using hellfire armor and Halone with bonewicca boots (now viera sandals) for most of my tank glams. I’ll probably be using neo now for a long time. However a lot of the healing gear this expansion has had neutral themes, the exception being Eden, nier raids, and one dungeon. There has been more to choose from but it’s just not the styles people want.

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Honestly even with all that, I'm still not really seeing how all of the fending gear is made masculine. If anything, all I'm seeing is that most Fending gear tends to be on the bulky side, as befitting the role that's meant to be getting punched in the face by demons, gods, primordial beings and keep on ticking. In regards to the Bozjan set, all I see is a big old fur coat and a hood. The Judge fending set and the Zadnor fending set are based off of Gabranth and Basch's gear from 12 so I get those.

Maybe now that we're going to Thavnair we'll get tank gear that shows more skin like the Omicron and Hellfire sets?