Pronouns???

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Originally Posted by Haru304

Something you said earlier was in regards to 'finding characters relatable', etc 'this is what this type of game is for', etc. Why does your character need to be perfectly representative of you in order for it to be relatable? I find myself asking this more and more as of late. I play this type of game to indulge in another character's story or experiences, and certain aspects of those may or may not be relatable, but that doesn't mean the character itself has to be one hundred percent representative of me. I don't have to be black, for example, to sympathize and feel a relation to the struggles of a black character, and likewise with gender. What's with this mentality that you can ONLY relate to people if they ARE you? It seems odd to me, as someone who doesn't particularly like being bound to labels and stereotypes.

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Completely agreed. Like, I'm a straight white male irl, as generic and cookie cutter as it gets. Yet I play a female Au Ra in this videogame and have no issues relating to her story and struggles. Because I accept that she does not represent me, my Au Ra, Alessia, is not me. She does not need to conform to what I am, nor do I subscribe to the idea of 'i am a straight white male irl, so my character has to be the same'.

I will for context and clarity quote my earlier post on this specific view:

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

Ultimately my view is this: You play a character in this setting, of a race and gender that abides by the rules of the setting. Disconnect from the character. Acknowledge that the character is not you and is not meant to represent who you are in real life. It is most definitely what I'd advise your friend to try to do. Now, in player interaction, that's an entirely different matter, you can request friends/acquaintances and if you wish attempt to ask even strangers to respect preferred pronouns. Obviously in interactions with other people it does matter more.

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It's very easy for people who have a lot of possible representation at their fingertips to talk about how their character doesn't have to be a reflection of themselves.

But there are a lot of people out there without that luxury. When there are real people who tell you that you don't or shouldn't exist in real life, it becomes more important to see yourself or people like you in a fantasy world. And until the game decides to introduce expressly trans or non-binary characters, for example, then often the only way to do that is to bring it with you.

For some people, even in a marginalized group, that kind of thing isn't important and that's great for them. But for some people, it is important and it doesn't take much to show some basic empathy.

Honestly, while overall idk but i feel like veira and ronso need it for sure

My major query here would be on how you'd go about representing marginalized groups in a universe where these groups aren't marginalized.

No character in Eorzea is going to tell you that you don't exist on the basis of gender or sexuality.

IMO, encouraging people to live as themselves in a fantasy game because they aren't accepted in reality isn't a healthy mind set.

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Originally Posted by squidmonarchy

It's very easy for people who have a lot of possible representation at their fingertips to talk about how their character doesn't have to be a reflection of themselves.

But there are a lot of people out there without that luxury. When there are real people who tell you that you don't or shouldn't exist in real life, it becomes more important to see yourself or people like you in a fantasy world. And until the game decides to introduce expressly trans or non-binary characters, for example, then often the only way to do that is to bring it with you.

For some people, even in a marginalized group, that kind of thing isn't important and that's great for them. But for some people, it is important and it doesn't take much to show some basic empathy.

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And I will always call those people that place such emphasis on identification shallow. People are far more than their sex and gender, far far more. Further very few games do justice to such when they do include them. They either stereotype them or define the entire character around the trait rather than being fully fleshed out. It is almost always done for pandering rather than making a good character.

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Originally Posted by squidmonarchy

For some people, even in a marginalized group, that kind of thing isn't important and that's great for them. But for some people, it is important and it doesn't take much to show some basic empathy.

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I think when people start bringing up empathy what they're really doing, intentionally or unintentionally, is trying to apply a form of peer pressure to get the result that they desire either for themselves, another individual/group or merely to feel better about themselves.

There's also, arguably, such a thing as too much empathy. I'd also generally advise against assuming that everybody here is free of their own set of problems in life. I'd be surprised if you could find someone who didn't have any personal issues to deal with in their day to day life.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I think when people start bringing up empathy what they're really doing, intentionally or unintentionally, is trying to apply a form of peer pressure to get the result that they desire either for themselves, another individual/group or merely to feel better about themselves.

There's also, arguably, such a thing as too much empathy. I'd also generally advise against assuming that everybody here is free of their own set of problems in life. I'd be surprised if you could find someone who didn't have any personal issues to deal with in their day to day life.

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To add onto this Empthay doesn't mean you always agree or don't push back on the person you are feeling empathy towards.

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Originally Posted by Haru304

My major query here would be on how you'd go about representing marginalized groups in a universe where these groups aren't marginalized.

No character in Eorzea is going to tell you that you don't exist on the basis of gender or sexuality.

IMO, encouraging people to live as themselves in a fantasy game because they aren't accepted in reality isn't a healthy mind set.

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The answer should be obvious, even if no doubt disliked: You don't. I said it earlier in the thread, a darker skinned Viera NPC won't be treated differently than a lighter skinned Viera NPC. Because skin color is not an issue in the setting, nor are people marginalized over it. Which means it makes no sense to try and forcibly make it an issue because 'real life politics' demand it. The same is true for most other such examples.

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Originally Posted by squidmonarchy

It's very easy for people who have a lot of possible representation at their fingertips to talk about how their character doesn't have to be a reflection of themselves.

But there are a lot of people out there without that luxury. When there are real people who tell you that you don't or shouldn't exist in real life, it becomes more important to see yourself or people like you in a fantasy world. And until the game decides to introduce expressly trans or non-binary characters, for example, then often the only way to do that is to bring it with you.

For some people, even in a marginalized group, that kind of thing isn't important and that's great for them. But for some people, it is important and it doesn't take much to show some basic empathy.

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But wouldn't it make a lot more sense for visibility and representation's sake to ask for square enix to include a non binary character than for a feature that you and only you will see and most likely 95% of the people will not use or know of it's existence?

idk man I'll never understand the whole pronoun thing. When there are LGBTIQ people still being killed worldwide, with many countries still outlawing and prosecuting LGBTIQ people, throwing twitter/ex-tumblr hissy fits over pronouns seems like the luxury to me

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Originally Posted by StormyFae

Honestly, while overall idk but i feel like veira and ronso need it for sure

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Viera and Hrothgar need hats more than they do pronouns

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Originally Posted by lezard21

But wouldn't it make a lot more sense for visibility and representation's sake to ask for square enix to include a non binary character than for a feature that you and only you will see and most likely 95% of the people will not use or know of it's existence?

idk man I'll never understand the whole pronoun thing. When there are LGBTIQ people still being killed worldwide, with many countries still outlawing and prosecuting LGBTIQ people, throwing twitter/ex-tumblr hissy fits over pronouns seems like the luxury to me

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Thankfully SE was ahead of them in this request. They were gracious enough to add Pixies to this game. Dozens upon dozens of non-binary characters, they even featured fairly frequently in ShB. Most notably off course Feo Ul. How nice of them.

Oh, wait? They didn't expressly and every five minutes tell us that pixies are non-binary? Oh noes, how horrible of them. We need those reminders lest we forget that Pixies aren't binary!!

*note, I'm not specifically trying to make fun of you, lezard, it's more a general poking of fun at the issue.