What should be the next tank job

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

I don't see how it is wrong at all, sword and shield fits exactly to the origins of the idea of the Paladin.

If you go back to the origin of Paladin as a title, they were the inner cadre of knights for Charlemagne and were known to carry swords. They were highly romanticized with tales written about their deeds, much like Arthurian legend. The most notable of the Paladins, Roland, even carried a famous sword that may have a familiar name to fans of the FF series, Durandal.

Later when the idea of Paladin was formulated in modern Western fantasy, it pulled a great deal of inspiration from the knight in shining armor trope with Arthurian legend being the biggest source of inspiration. The whole idea of Paladins being able to heal, such as the ability Lay On Hands from D&D, comes directly from Arthurian legend in which Galahad is able to heal King Pelles by touching his wound. As is common knowledge, or at least I hope, the sword was the iconic weapon of the Knights of the Round Table in Arthurian legend.

Even from a purely historical perspective, swords we're seen as weapons of nobility due to the cost of making one compared to other arms and so they became associated with those of higher societal standing and becoming a symbol of knighthood.

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I agree that Paladins were seen as Sword using as well, but I wanted to mention D&D/inspired by D&D games went with Hammer on PLD, in order to help it stand out from looking like a typical Knight, AND due to some cases of Hammers being seen as the better "Undead Killing Weapon".
But outside of D&D they use swords as much as any knight like class does.

EDIT: meant to say Hammer instead of mace.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

I agree that Paladins were seen as Sword using as well, but I wanted to mention D&D/inspired by D&D games went with mace on PLD, in order to help it stand out from looking like a typical Knight, AND due to some cases fo Maces being seen as the better "Undead Killing Weapon".
But outside of D&D they use swords as much as any knight like class does.

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I'm intimately familiar with D&D, I used to play it when I was young starting with the original version all the way up through AD&D 2nd ed. I've also kept abreast of all the versions since but not actually played.

That was the Cleric class and not Paladin that was originally associated with and limited to maces and blunt weapons. Clerics were originally the "anti-undead" class as is evident by their most iconic class ability "Turn Undead".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cler...s_%26_Dragons)

People tend to mix up paladin and cleric in fantasy, very very often. Paladin is a lot more knight-like, cleric is more like a battle priest. Mace is typical for clerics, not paladins.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

I'm intimately familiar with D&D, I used to play it when I was young starting with the original version all the way up through AD&D 2nd ed. I've also kept abreast of all the versions since but not actually played.

That was the Cleric class and not Paladin that was originally associated with and limited to maces and blunt weapons. Clerics were originally the "anti-undead" class as is evident by their most iconic class ability "Turn Undead".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cler...s_%26_Dragons)

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Im not suggesting you're not familiar with it, I assumed u were if anything, I was just adding on to what you said.
Ironically the "Healer of the West" is mostly Clerics of D&D style, and healers of the east are most commonly "Priests", FF/DQ style.
Im also not suggesting PLD is limited to maces, as they can equip swords just as often, if not more often. But outside of actual D&D, in spin off board games, that arent role playing, so much as... idk what other term to use, but tabletop, they use iconic images of classes, and PLD most commonly is portrayed as Hammer wielding in full platemail, with warrior having the sword, and barbarian having the axe. (They still have clerics using maces, and chainmail)
Sometimes the PLD loses its undead killer status so the cleric can have it, and end up being a weaker warrior with lay on hands. (all depends on the tabletop and video game) and D&D knock-offs do this commonly as well.

Within official D&D editions, you can literally equip anything anyways, as long as you accept the penalty. (w/e it may be)
I should make an edit that I do tend to imagine Hammers, Maces, and Clubs all within the same category, despite being pretty darn different. SO I technically imagine Hammer before Mace for PLDs, but tend to just label all 3 categories into 1 label. (Mace) Thats my mistake more than anything.

I'm ready for Blue Mage or Beastmaster as the new tank!

On the idea of "pet" based tank class why not Puppetmaster? One of the automation frames from FFXI was a PLD.

It would also be a way for players to spend loads of gil on not only performance upgrade parts but also shell parts that altered its appearance.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

On the idea of "pet" based tank class why not Puppetmaster?

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Because it's an entirely unappealing concept and you want something that actually has a cool-factor to it.

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It would also be a way for players to spend loads of gil on not only performance upgrade parts but also shell parts that altered its appearance.

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Yes, putting a high price tag on a tank is such an intelligent idea...

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Because it's an entirely unappealing concept and you want something that actually has a cool-factor to it.

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You keep saying this, but so far I've yet to hear anyone else decidedly condemn its prospects.

It's XI iteration left much to be desired, but that hardly speaks to the potential of a pet class capable of tooling out different avatars, making use of devices through them, salvaging them, etc., etc. Pretty much everything beyond the secondary aesthetic entity is up for grab; the pets don't technically even need to be their own unit, let alone perform autonomously, be limited to the cesspool that is current SMN pet movement speeds, or require terrain-click movement.

It's been a long slow road in pet finesse that SE has been walking (crawling?) with subtle adjustments to SCH/SMN pets , then small mechanic additions like MCH turrents, Demi-Bahamut, and even Earthly Star.

I suspect they're moving towards a point where they're ready to add more pet(esque) jobs, it's just a question of how long until they get there, they're not there yet (but imo some minor QoL fixes for egis/faeries/bahamut is all that's missing)

will it be by 5.0 or later is the question,

If by 5.0, then I'd put Puppeteer(HLR?), Beastmaster(TNK), (both pet-themed-esque jobs) and a Gunblade(DPS) user are my picks for 3 jobs likeliest for 5.0.

And I say 'pet-esque' because it's all just a facade for resource management and gates for unique actions anyway. Redmage not being a trinity breaking job didn't destroy their identity, so neither do pet jobs need to have the literal Egi/Faerie elements like being on the enmity table, and UI widgets allow plenty of options in how the pet aspect can be implemented.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Because it's an entirely unappealing concept and you want something that actually has a cool-factor to it.



Yes, putting a high price tag on a tank is such an intelligent idea...

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People spent 15mil on a single piece of gear just to use as a glamour. The price tag argument is moot.

The game itself is lacking things for players to actually spend gil on resulting in most players with any decent amount of playtime amassing a large surplus of it.

The way PUP played in ffxi wasn't stellar however most PUP players enjoyed the aspect of having a customizable pet. Given one of the pet roles in FFXI was a tank there is at least some groundwork there if they use it rather than taking jobs that were never designed as a tank in previous games and trying to turn them into one. However they will need to overhaul the pet interface to make it really viable which I would hope they are doing already due to player complaints on existing pets.