Making Jobs Rotationally Easier in 4.0

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I was under the impression that DoTs snapshotted any buffs and debuffs up at the time of application (i.e. Trick, Hypercharge, etc.) Is the DoT tick not recognised as slashing damage or something?

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I believe all physical DoTs are considered 'unaspected' physical. At any rate, none benefit from Dragon Kick, Dancing Edge, Storm's Eye, or Disembowel.

With the bizarre exception of DRK's two DoTs, Salted Earth (which apparently counts as Slashing), and Scourge (which apparently counts as magic). I had hoped that those were a bug, or the info was sourced by multiple jokes, but went ahead and tested the latter myself... Foe Scourge was ticking for more, consistently, in a three minutes without vs. three minutes with test. (Maybe that's been hotfixed by now? It's been a while.)

If they lower tank dps anymore I'm done tanking.

I actually enjoy it in this game since you can do ok dps unlike other MMOs I'v eplayed where a tank does like 25% the damage of a dps.

I don't know if there's really any point to this thread. We don't know what the devs consider to be "rotationally easier", why the consider that tanks need to be this, or how they're going to go about it.

Things that I'd like to see?

"Storm's Eye gains potency when used on a target already suffering Storm's Eye or Dancing Edge" (just enough to match Butcher's Block, so that Warrior offtanks don't push enmity like I see it complained in other threads)
"Delirium now inflicts Blunt resistance -10% and can overwrite Dragon Kick. Dragon Kick now lasts 20 seconds" (I am fed up with seeing Monks letting this fall off, just timed wrong so I can't Delirium to get that int down effect.)
"Cover is now a cross-class skill." (Maybe we'd see it being used more intelligently if it was a standard part of the Tank kit, rather than just a situational gimmick. I certainly didn't like seeing a Dragoon go running off, resulting in me eating Holy Shield Bash's stun but him still taking all the damage)

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Originally Posted by Falar

If they lower tank dps anymore I'm done tanking.

I actually enjoy it in this game since you can do ok dps unlike other MMOs I'v eplayed where a tank does like 25% the damage of a dps.

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why not play a DD then? i wish FXIV would focus more on tanks being actual tanks in raid content and less on being additional DDs that can take hits better.

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

why not play a DD then? i wish FXIV would focus more on tanks being actual tanks in raid content and less on being additional DDs that can take hits better.

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Maybe he wants to contribute to the goal of the fight rather than be there solely to enable it?

Maybe people want to be a shining master swordsman/raging berserker/deathly black knight instead of a worthless punching bag with pool noodle weapons?

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

why not play a DD then? i wish FXIV would focus more on tanks being actual tanks in raid content and less on being additional DDs that can take hits better.

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They technically can design encounters that focuses more on tank checks, but admitedly the skillgap between players is too much. If you introduces so much damage to tanks more often, it becomes really frustrating for new tanks to get into raids, see t13 in ARR. Good tanks will simply adjust their playstyle but not so for the rest. It'd be boring to just stand still and take damage too. SE hasn't changed this part for tanks and healers to stop doing DPS for patches now. You also do need to understand that you only need to do enough damage to clear raids (that number is still high enough for most tanks to achieve), pushing damage is an extra. Enrages for Creator fights is also lenient enough, a12s has enrage timer of 13:30 iirc and most groups can clear it within 12mins. So you don't absolutely need huge dps tanks do clear current raid, just have competent tanks to deal respectable damage to enable clearing raids.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

Maybe he wants to contribute to the goal of the fight rather than be there solely to enable it?

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So, keeping the boss on him is not "contributing" to the fight ?
And actually greatly depleting the boss HP is not "solely enabling" it ?

Drop the time degrading of enochian upon each use of Blizzard IV and I'll be good.

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Originally Posted by Frowny

I think that may speak more to how tanking can just be.... boring.

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It's a problem most MMOs have had since the beginning. Simply standing there, getting punched in the face and not feeling like you're contributing beyond taking a bullet for someone playing a class with all the, "cool" spells isn't going to sound all that appealing to a lot of players. I think MMOs have painted themselves into a corner by reserving all the fun, flashy stuff exclusively for DPS classes for so long while tanks get...shield bash. Now they're at the point where they have to practically bribe people to play tanks.

I actually like what SE does with tanks here. It's not that I want to play a DPS class, but I'm glad that we're breaking away from the mentality that tanks have to be as dry and vanilla as possible

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

So, keeping the boss on him is not "contributing" to the fight ?
And actually greatly depleting the boss HP is not "solely enabling" it ?

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So you've kept your hate above all your teammates.

Then what?

So you can survive the tank buster,

Now what?

What separates you from a common tank that can meet the same check?

How else have you impacted the fight after meeting those two checks?

Yes, all you've done is allow the possibility for "greatly" depleting the bosses' hp. Any further input from you as a player beyond enabling that bare minimum necessity for completion, means nothing.

Even worse, when said opportunity is not even being utilized by the DPS.

So what now?

In a world that once existed where a Tank is but as I've said, a punching bag with flashing lights.

You've become exceptionally skilled at generating massive amounts of hate to allow the maximum potential from the damage dealers and beyond.

You've mitigated exceptionally well to the point that your healers need only press one basic heal button every 20 seconds.

The progression of the fight has not changed since you've only barely kept your hate above the DPS's max potential, or when you've managed to survive the rate of incoming damage.

Your huge aggro lead is worthless.

Your excessive mitigation does nothing but flaunt the iron wall perception.

Now, you sit there, and hope to be carried by the DPS.

At the end of the day, if you're in a good group or a bad group. What you do means nothing, because you cannot in any shape or form change the outcome of the bad group away from failure.

Not to mention a large part of a game's enjoyment is also the theme and visual style.

Why does a hulking greataxe/greatsword or the iconic broad/short/longsword pathetically bounce off the most snuggly moogle when a kitchen knife causes said moogle to violently explode into guts, bones and other visceral matter?