Four Ways to Die - why the Tank Meta feels "off".

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Originally Posted by Alahra

I'd agree with that, yes. To be honest, I always thought they should have made the standard upgrade 5 item levels, rather than 10, especially since stats have exponential curves. That's especially important for VIT, I think, since it gives about 20 HP per point at 60 and gave about 15 per point at 50, if I'm recalling things right.

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That would be a good start for sure. Especially considering how invisible that increase is outside of raid balance.

I honestly think that Paladin and Dark Knight should get a small revamp adjusting their abilities to make them more fun to play and not so basic in mechanics. Dark Knight and Paladin should be different from eachother. The only real difference right now is Paladins suck at Magic and AOE but Dark Knights suck at Physical and ST.

Warrior is the highest DPS.
Warrior is good against everything. Which is how tanks should be defensively designed!

Now, do I think Warrior needs a nerf? NO! Why would I want them nerfed? They have really cool mechanics and the class is really interesting and fun to play, it has a few ways it can play and STILL be viable.



Here are some suggestions for Paladin for example:

Flash remade to Hammer of Justice.

Block Passive:
Block now lowers the damage from spells at half the rate.

Hammer of Justice:
Create a hammer that circles around you dealing 40 potency to each target hit. Can spin around and hit the same enemy again increasing enmity gain.
Hammers move with your character, so you can move your character to skillfully hit enemies more times.

Enhanced Hammer of Justice:
Each hit of Hammer of Justice increases block rate by 5% for 5s, stacks up to 5.

Shield Swipe:
Potency increased to 300 and now off the GCD however has a 30 second cool-down.

Sentinel:
Cool-down reduced to 120 seconds.

Tempered Will:
Cool-down reduced to 90 seconds.
Immediately cures Blind and Heavy, while preventing knockback and draw-in effects for 10s.
Additional Effect: Lowers magical damage taken by 30%.

Cover:
Takes all damage intended for another party member for 12s.
Can only be used when the party member is 10y or close

Sheltron
Blocks all attacks that deal less then 20% total life for 3 seconds.
Additional Effect: Partial MP restored upon block (restores 707 MP at lv 60)

Clemency
Restores target's HP. Cure Potency: 1200
Additional Effect: Restores to self 100% of HP restored to target if target is a party member.
Cast cannot be interrupted when used on a party member.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

The only real difference right now is Paladins suck at Magic and AOE but Dark Knights suck at Physical and ST.

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WTF did I just read ? Since when DRK sucks for single target ? Do you smoke some kind of illegal stuff or what ?

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

WTF did I just read ? Since when DRK sucks for single target ? Do you smoke some kind of illegal stuff or what ?

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Dark Knight does significantly less damage then Warrior single target [(850m?) vs (1100m?)]. Its also not as if Dark Knight has a significant advantage in defenses over them either, although it is supposed to be an offensive tank as well.

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Originally Posted by karateorangutang

There's another force at work though too. Thats the major increases in damage and survivability that even a 10 ilvl jump affords. That extreme jump in effectivness you receive when that happens is also a problem. Not only does a happy medium need to be achieved in the fight meta, but also a tuning down in how much an ilvl is worth to make encounters more difficult and balanced for longer periods of time.

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Our characters after 793 days of time from 2.0 to now are not quite four times as powerful as they could possibly be during the relaunch of the game. It's almost an average of 200 days per 'increase' in actual total character power. How much slower/more anemic does it need to be?

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Dark Knight does significantly less damage then Warrior single target [(850m?) vs (1100m?)].

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That's not true. DRK has the highest MT DPS out of the 3 tanks, and as OT they are really close to WAR and can actually compete with them pretty good. When MTing, if they drop Grit they can outDPS a Deliverance WAR if they are lucky with procs. The added DPS of Reprisal + Low Blow resetting CD + more mana from Blood Price while being out of Grit and having also access to Blood Weapon is banana sandwich. I don't know where you take your sources to say such blasphemy, but DRK's DPS is super good.

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Originally Posted by Instrumentality

Our characters after 793 days of time from 2.0 to now are not quite four times as powerful as they could possibly be during the relaunch of the game. It's almost an average of 200 days per 'increase' in actual total character power. How much slower/more anemic does it need to be?

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Does it matter though?

I mean it's the abilities that are tied to the growth of you character, the stats are really just numbers. Numbers that are growing at an exponential rate. I don't know about your but 4 times sounds like a major low ball to me. I don't know the numbers but I remember a time at level 50 when 400 DPS was kicking butt. We are tripling that now.... at ten character levels higher. Even in the time since 3.0 release good DPS are showing numbers that are 200-300 DPS higher than at release. That's a huge amount of numerical growth in a small amount of time. Encounters are balanced around these numbers and with growth that fast it's easy to outgrow them too quickly. Out-gearing an instance in less than 2 months after it's release sounds like the exact opposite of anemic to me.

I dunno too, if I was my character and i had quadrupled my battle strength in a mere 200 days.... deal. That's a completely unrealistic and fantasy like pace in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by AniCelestine

Yeah an old post but really? Not long queue times back in 2.0-2.1? I gained atleast 3 levels crafting and gathering material for crafting per queue wait. I spent the rest of the 2.x patch doing dungeons/roulets as a tank cause of the 30+min queues as dps at the start. Now in 3.0 I get on my monk, select a duty, go on the queue (solo) it's about 20 seconds of waiting, rarely longer than 1min.


/shrug

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On Excalibur, my DPS queues are around 10-15m, tank queues instant(most of the time) and healers 5-10 minutes.

And I like tanking. I hate the dps tanking meta and the crappy attitude its breeding.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

On Excalibur, my DPS queues are around 10-15m, tank queues instant(most of the time) and healers 5-10 minutes.

And I like tanking. I hate the dps tanking meta and the crappy attitude its breeding.

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DPS tanking has been the meta for a VERRRRY long time.

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

WTF did I just read ? Since when DRK sucks for single target ? Do you smoke some kind of illegal stuff or what ?

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Ignore him like everyone else.