Tank Balance

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

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Yeah, that's called "active mitigation". WAR has some of it with Wrath building and IB usage. DRK kinda with Souleater but not really.

But yeah, active mitigation is a lot more fun than passive mitigation. This game is in the middle though, popping a CD to mitigate busters is a form of "active mitigation" but it's not active enough.

I feel I should be adding more to my posts but too lazy and tired to elaborate. haha. I should sleep.

IMO, what tanks need are more tanking abilities.

ATM, WARs are already in a good spot since they are gated by wrath/abandon to balance out their offense and defense.

DRKs are gated by MP. A bit more tweaking, and they're done.

PLDs need to be gated by something else. If they're supposed to be the most defensive tank among the rest, then it should reflect through their abilities. i am thinking of a resource that is only gained from blocking. And their future abilities are dependent on that.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

This game is in the middle though, popping a CD to mitigate busters is a form of "active mitigation" but it's not active enough.

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And it's definitely not "challenging". Maybe that's why the endgame challenge as a tank is to do the max DPS while surviving.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

And it's definitely not "challenging". Maybe that's why the endgame challenge as a tank is to do the max DPS while surviving.

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Which is by design, I think. They realize that in terms of social pressure, tanking is seen as an "important" job and a lot of people who don't tank choose not to because of that pressure. That's why the tank jobs (with WAR being something of the exception for variety) aren't as demanding rotationally as DPS classes are, so that they have less to worry about and (hopefully) more people can learn to like tanking.

The current setup works pretty well, I think: serious tanks can go all in for DPS maximization, and those that are just tanking for their roulettes or friends can get by just doing the meat shield thing. They need to do something regarding parity in the OT role and probably to make PLD more desirable in 8-mans, though.

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Originally Posted by Alahra

The current setup works pretty well, I think: serious tanks can go all in for DPS maximization

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For me, the second part of your sentence completely contradicts the first.
And I fear this will bite us really hard if they decide to add other tanks in the next expansions.

Adding a real "gameplay" for mitigation would lift a lot of complains because player skill would "blur" the gap between each tank, like it does with DPS.

What would be a mitigation mechanic that is fun and somewhat challenging for example? Outside of certain action oriented games with active blocking/dodging I have yet to see one.

Maximizing damage additionally to mitigation at least increases the low skill ceiling that comes with tanking imo.

While we're here discussing tank balance it seems the only issue devs see in it based on interviews is aggro issues. Hopefully that's not the full extent of tank changes we can expect in 3.1 or its gonna be really depressing.

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Originally Posted by NFaelivrin

While we're here discussing tank balance it seems the only issue devs see in it based on interviews is aggro issues. Hopefully that's not the full extent of tank changes we can expect in 3.1 or its gonna be really depressing.

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I fully agree.

They really need to look at PLD and DRK tp costs.
Then they'll have the issues with each class resolved properly.

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Originally Posted by rawker

IMO, what tanks need are more tanking abilities.

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I don't think this is necessarily true. I think they have enough abilities, it's just that their skillset doesn't seem to flow well or even contradict use in a party setting.

For instance, take a look at Blood Price from DRK. They restore their MP from taking damage, which is important usually during AoE spams of Unleash. The problem? Your healer is usually using Holy or Shadowflare, which reduces incoming damage and thus mitigates enough to cause MP problems, and you have a harder time holding aggro.

PLD's skillset has a lot of good tools, but they seem disjointed at times. Take this for example: Rage of Halone is unlike Butcher's Block, as it's the lowest potency combo instead of the highest, but needed to keep aggro. In addition, Authority is combo'd from Savage Blade instead of Riot Blade, which is inconsistent when compared to the other two tank classes.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

For me, the second part of your sentence completely contradicts the first.
And I fear this will bite us really hard if they decide to add other tanks in the next expansions.

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Care to explain how it's a contradiction? SE wants tanking to be approachable, and at it's base level, it is. You don't have to optimize damage to tank beyond knowing your enmity combos. However, those tanks that are dedicated to the job and want to get more out of it have a lot of room to push for damage, learn how to squeeze in periods in DPS stance while MTing, and so on. In my mind, it's a solid enough compromise and ultimately probably good for keeping tanks available for content.