What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

I don't understand how DRK questline can be so good but the story be so bad. And I think Ishikawa wrote both?

I mean personally even ShB story I felt was good but the pacing overall in Endwalker is so rushed and all over the place that it comes off as cheap anime garbage.

And I'm seeing more of the same overall with Buried Memory.

The fights are amazing. The story not so much.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Meh. Personally I've enjoyed it. It's fan-service in a video game, not something to be taken ultra-seriously. Sit back, relax, enjoy the old-school references you understand...I feel like some people have just become so bitter they're simply incapable of just having fun anymore.

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Come on, man, don't be one of those "you're not having fun right" posters.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

I don't understand how DRK questline can be so good but the story be so bad. And I think Ishikawa wrote both?

I mean personally even ShB story I felt was good but the pacing overall in Endwalker is so rushed and all over the place that it comes off as cheap anime garbage.

And I'm seeing more of the same overall with Buried Memory.

The fights are amazing. The story not so much.

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what I believe, is that the game becoming so popular made SE completely lose control of things. They have no idea what the players like, so whatever becomes popular, they amplify in the story, but they do it so intensely it gets sickening.

Why do I think so?

Graha'tia - character adored by everyone in SHB, and many talked about the scene in which he is embarrassed because they think it's cute. Now Graha doesn't stop following us, being cute. It's just an expendable character.

Characters not dying - they are simply afraid to kill any character and make the fanbase angry. No one relevant has died since post HW, if I'm not mistaken.

Attempts to make it very emotional - one of the most popular video themes on SHB was about players crying with 5.3. Now, even in praetorium our character does a scene worthy of a Mexican soap opera, because a robot stopped working.

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

I didn't think any story was going to be more uninteresting to me than SB, but EW did it. Whoever wrote it is to be congratulated.

If there are three things I can't stand this game anymore, it's:

fake deaths
flashback scenes to explain to me what was just said (I'm not stupid, I get it)
scenes clearly done in an attempt to make me cry (seriously, they ruined the Haurchefant scene with so much flashback. I roll my eyes every time it happens)

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I liked Stormblood. The Ala Mhigan side was a bit dull, but they coupled a war-centric storyline with a more traditional long journey to a set destination like Heavensward's first half, which is something I have always enjoyed in the classic Final Fantaies as opposed to the "mission" based structure of ARR and Endwalker.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

I don't understand how DRK questline can be so good but the story be so bad. And I think Ishikawa wrote both?

I mean personally even ShB story I felt was good but the pacing overall in Endwalker is so rushed and all over the place that it comes off as cheap anime garbage.

And I'm seeing more of the same overall with Buried Memory.

The fights are amazing. The story not so much.

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Ishikawa's DRK questline is another example of her annoying tendency of taking the player avatar out of the WoL by forcing specific thought process or feelings towards another character. Can SE please just stop dancing around the issue and give the trailer midlander the name John Finalfantasy and admit he's a default main character with his own personality please.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Can SE please just stop dancing around the issue and give the trailer midlander the name John Finalfantasy and admit he's a default main character with his own personality please.

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Hard agree! I did some ARR questing on an alt and you are treated like some random guy, like a player avatar. More of that! (It's too late now, we can't go back, but could dampen the effects of being the Hero of the Galaxy/Universe). Can someone explain to me if it's a gamer thing that saving the world is the only thing worth while in modern role playing games? What about foiling Lex Luthor's plot to steal the diamond? (I've definitely expressed this opinion before, possibly even in this thread)

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Originally Posted by Ishe-P

Hard agree! I did some ARR questing on an alt and you are treated like some random guy, like a player avatar. More of that! (It's too late now, we can't go back, but could dampen the effects of being the Hero of the Galaxy/Universe). Can someone explain to me if it's a gamer thing that saving the world is the only thing worth while in modern role playing games? What about foiling Lex Luthor's plot to steal the diamond? (I've definitely expressed this opinion before, possibly even in this thread)

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It's a japanese RPG thing, and most especially a Final Fantasy thing.
We will always be saving the world at the end (or trying to).
In that regard, the devs are just following the usual Final Fantasy script.

What bothers me is that in a MMO, this create a power creep that makes us so strong that most enemies should be trivial to us.
We are probably the strongest human being alive right now, i can't see us having problems fighting anything right now.

I hope the WoL will get a huge nerf soon. I want to fight in smaller scale conflicted without either looking like i'm holding back, or wondering how our enemies could be so strong.

As for being treated like an avatar, i disagree, i hated that in ARR and other MMO in general. I'm fine with the WoL being a character that sometimes have his own reaction and personality, even if it goes against what i really think.
He would be more boring if he was a WoW kind of player character that are just a tag along. I like how expressive the character is compared to ARR.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

I liked Stormblood. The Ala Mhigan side was a bit dull, but they coupled a war-centric storyline with a more traditional long journey to a set destination like Heavensward's first half, which is something I have always enjoyed in the classic Final Fantaies as opposed to the "mission" based structure of ARR and Endwalker.

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my eternal tantrum with SB is the fact that you have the anime villain that never dies, or that everything you do is part of his plan.
Tsukuyomi, for example, we get into combat with her, then she is cut by the Hien, and a roof falls on her, and she doesn't die.
I don't like the way they told the story too. Several times I thought about giving up reading, it was so boring. But that's my opinion and personal taste.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Ishikawa's DRK questline is another example of her annoying tendency of taking the player avatar out of the WoL by forcing specific thought process or feelings towards another character. Can SE please just stop dancing around the issue and give the trailer midlander the name John Finalfantasy and admit he's a default main character with his own personality please.

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Yes! I don't see myself as my character has been for a while anymore. In this expansion, I really wanted to delete him when we got to Elpis and he got the role of the stray dog, all the time making a sad face. When I think of my character, I think of a vindictive/mocking guy, not a sad guy who would put up with Emet-Selch talking shit all the time while making a pity face. My character just doesn't represent me anymore, I don't even know who he is.

They are trying to go in hard with Azem being the WoL as the player slowly but surely loses all free choice and becomes the next Elden Lord.

Yeah, I honestly can't stand how annoying my own character has become in the main story and sometimes the side-stories. I shall forever be an eternal cutscene skipper.

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

They have no idea what the players like

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I dont think this is true. Sure, you will NEVER please everybody, but I think they do a pretty good job at making people happy and doing things people love.
Just at the same time, they also do things people dont like. Its the problem with having to much diversity and variety, that one side will start getting under developed, while the other gets over developed. Sometimes they hot the mark in some areas, other times they completly miss it and make people upset.

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

Now, even in praetorium our character does a scene worthy of a Mexican soap opera, because a robot stopped working.

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Lol wow you weren't kidding, what's even the point of that? Surely the last thing you'd want to add to the Praetorium is MORE cutscenes.
The ironic thing is that the cutscene of the armor recognizing you from the old version felt like a much more natural and unique way of establishing an emotional connection to it, no idea why they'd cut that since it was like 15 seconds long.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

...

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maybe you're right, but Yoshi P saying things like "we didn't expect the public reaction" regarding the poor hair quality of hrothgars in 6.1 (the ones without ears), makes me believe that they really have no idea of their players. Just ask anyone what the endgame of the FFXIV is, and most will answer "glammour", whether it's a joke or serious, after all, most players take appearance seriously. They got the SHB right, but in my head, they don't understand why.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

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I believe the idea was to make praetorium more fluid, but right after that they add a longer cutscene just to show our character making drama because the armor stopped working.
But you're right. The original cutscene generated more emotion without touching my character, so I would imagine what he was feeling the moment magitek recognized us. Today I have to accept that he has feelings for a lot of iron.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

They are trying to go in hard with Azem being the WoL as the player slowly but surely loses all free choice and becomes the next Elden Lord.

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Technically that would make one the Empyrean of the duo, not the Elden Lord. It's the God-Host that get's possessed by the Attack on Titan parasite and loses all agency. ;3

Well during my FC game night I did have friends who haven't returned to the game since 6.0 asking if they should come back, I gave them an honest opinion of no as the story hasn't move much since 6.0 and the usual content they enjoy of the relic is not in the game. I can no longer seriously recommend the game for purely it's story and when that leaves the rest of the game to sell itself well that is a hard sell at the moment with balancing issue galore and a lack of usually grind-able for casuals content like the relic/PoTD. I also heard the reaction of said friends as I explained my case in not recommending a return to EW and them starting to see 6.0 was not as meticulous as they had thought once plot holes are noted. I do hope the slowness of the patch content starts to get moving a little in 6.3 and the plot start to have any sense of urgency.

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Originally Posted by Xeronia

Well during my FC game night I did have friends who haven't returned to the game since 6.0 asking if they should come back, I gave them an honest opinion of no as the story hasn't move much since 6.0 and the usual content they enjoy of the relic is not in the game. I can no longer seriously recommend the game for purely it's story and when that leaves the rest of the game to sell itself well that is a hard sell at the moment with balancing issue galore and a lack of usually grind-able for casuals content like the relic/PoTD. I also heard the reaction of said friends as I explained my case in not recommending a return to EW and them starting to see 6.0 was not as meticulous as they had thought once plot holes are noted. I do hope the slowness of the patch content starts to get moving a little in 6.3 and the plot start to have any sense of urgency.

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Yep, my FC is full of people who have probably never watched a cutscene in their lives (after Endwalker I kneel to these chads honestly) and quickly crush every new Savage and Ultimate within the first month and farm gear and parse on multiple jobs... but it seems like they didn't even return for Abyssos, or if they cleared, immediately checked out. And they've been raiding together since... Coil/Alexander, as have I.

I popped back in just to check out Pandaemonium and enjoyed it, as it seems to be written by someone who actually enjoys the same story elements that I do and treats them as living breathing characters and not dumb caricatures who just, like, don't feel emotions the same way as us so they need to flop over and go extinct happily ever after... so far. MSQ I had zero (heh...) interest in and didn't do. I'll probably just wait for the last tier to come out, hear about the ending from others, and maybe resub if it's decent.

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Originally Posted by Xeronia

Well during my FC game night I did have friends who haven't returned to the game since 6.0 asking if they should come back, I gave them an honest opinion of no as the story hasn't move much since 6.0 and the usual content they enjoy of the relic is not in the game. I can no longer seriously recommend the game for purely it's story and when that leaves the rest of the game to sell itself well that is a hard sell at the moment with balancing issue galore and a lack of usually grind-able for casuals content like the relic/PoTD. I also heard the reaction of said friends as I explained my case in not recommending a return to EW and them starting to see 6.0 was not as meticulous as they had thought once plot holes are noted. I do hope the slowness of the patch content starts to get moving a little in 6.3 and the plot start to have any sense of urgency.

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On the flip side, other people (such as myself) would 100% recommend the game on the story alone, and with the changes they've made to make solo-play a more viable option alongside typical MMO grouping, I can even recommend it to more people who love FF and RPG storylines but aren't necessarily big into MMO's. I'm not sure what's meant by the "slowness of the patch content"...the pacing of the patches is within a couple weeks of the norm, and for people like me who only have limited time to play, there's always something and more to do.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Meh. Personally I've enjoyed it. It's fan-service in a video game, not something to be taken ultra-seriously. Sit back, relax, enjoy the old-school references you understand...I feel like some people have just become so bitter they're simply incapable of just having fun anymore.

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And what about those of us for which FFXIV is their first and only Final Fantasy game? All of these name drops that occur throughout the story, all of these cameos or references are absolutely hollow and pointless if you have no frame of reference for what's being shown to you. Fan service alone does not a compelling or interesting story make. Just being shown something familiar is not fun (especially if it's not actually familiar.) There has to be an actual character, motivation, and compelling story arc first.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

On the flip side, other people (such as myself) would 100% recommend the game on the story alone, and with the changes they've made to make solo-play a more viable option alongside typical MMO grouping, I can even recommend it to more people who love FF and RPG storylines but aren't necessarily big into MMO's. I'm not sure what's meant by the "slowness of the patch content"...the pacing of the patches is within a couple weeks of the norm, and for people like me who only have limited time to play, there's always something and more to do.

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The slowness in regards to story mainly, we still have no clue what new big bad is even remotely up to and unlike the ominous "meanwhile in X" villains of the past he isn't going to last for expansions as they did. It just feels a bit slow at this point and torn between shoving FF4 fanservice in your face while trying to develop a new character. I feel like I am just waiting for the inevitable 6.3 "*gasp* Big twist here that changes everything!" due to how badly focused the patch content has been between The Fiends, Zero, the remaining life in The 13th, and the big bad himself. One of the reasons I loved ShB was The First feels like a very fleshed out understandable world, The 13th thus far feels like a flyover state compared.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

On the flip side, other people (such as myself) would 100% recommend the game on the story alone

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A friend of mine never played a Final Fantasy game before. He played FFXIV for more than a year. When we talked about the story and a lot of it's shortcomings he claimed that was just "typical" for Final Fantasy. FFXIV's bad storytelling shines a bad light on other FFs.

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Originally Posted by BRVV

A friend of mine never played a Final Fantasy game before. He played FFXIV for more than a year. When we talked about the story and a lot of it's shortcomings he claimed that was just "typical" for Final Fantasy. FFXIV's bad storytelling shines a bad light on other FFs.

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If you held any other FF story to as much scrutiny as XIV's has been in this thread you'd be bound to find just as many flaws, if not more.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

If you held any other FF story to as much scrutiny as XIV's has been in this thread you'd be bound to find just as many flaws, if not more.

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Challenge accepted. I choose FFX. Can't really find the flaws so maybe you can help me out?

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Originally Posted by BRVV

Challenge accepted. I choose FFX. Can't really find the flaws so maybe you can help me out?

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- Is Dream Zanarkand an alternate dimension? Or is it a physical location in the world? Are the ruins you visit at the end of the game the real Zanarkand or the fake one after being destroyed by Sin? If it's the ruins of the real Zanarkand then what were the other Zanarkand Ruins that Tidus explores at the very start of the game?
- How did Auron know how to get to Dream Zanarkand? This implies it's a physical location on the map, but if anyone from the real world can just walk up and go there then how come no one else has ever found it? And how come no one aside from Jecht and Tidus has ever left?
- Speaking of Auron, it sure is convenient that there's some rule about how not ALL Unsent turn into fiends, only some of them for whatever reason. If an Unsent can just live their life as a normal human after death then why would they ever "resent the living"?
- What's even the point of Seymour's marriage plot? He obviously doesn't have Spira's best interests in mind like he claims, but otherwise there's no real reason to marry Yuna other than to get back at her and Tidus I guess, but he was trying to marry her before they'd even done anything to him. I guess she is pretty cute, but that's hardly a good motivation for your main antagonist.
- If Yu Yevon possesses the Final Aeon whenever it kills Sin before it turns into the new Sin then why doesn't he just remain in control of Sin at all times? That would have saved him a lot of trouble when Sin was actively helping the people trying to put a stop to his plans. I guess he's not omniscient, but he should at least be aware of Sin's whereabouts and movements - in fact since the whole point of Sin was to perserve Dream Zanarkand then it seems pretty unnatural that he wouldn't get pissed about Jecht destroying it as Sin.

The main thing I'm wondering is whether the void storyline is going to be done and dusted by 6.4, leaving 6.5 as its own separate thing to build up to 7.x with, or if the conclusion of the storyline is going to directly transition into 7.x with the hinted "great change" being related to it somehow.

I'm kind of hoping it's the former because it raises much more unpredictable possibilities for what the final post-MSQ trial could be.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

- Is Dream Zanarkand an alternate dimension? Or is it a physical location in the world? Are the ruins you visit at the end of the game the real Zanarkand or the fake one after being destroyed by Sin? If it's the ruins of the real Zanarkand then what were the other Zanarkand Ruins that Tidus explores at the very start of the game?

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Dream Zanarkand is a physical location you can go to. It was not explained if you need the fayth to do so. The ruins at the end are of the REAL Zanarkand. The dream Zanarkand was destroyed but is likely just put up again. After all Tidus' mind goes there to meet Bahamut's fayth. Tidus and the rest exist as a memory of real people. This dream started shortly after the original Zanarkand's destruction about 1000 years ago. Notice how Tidus never questions him being 1000 years old? They don't realize it. Maybe that's way the term "dream" is used.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

- How did Auron know how to get to Dream Zanarkand? This implies it's a physical location on the map, but if anyone from the real world can just walk up and go there then how come no one else has ever found it? And how come no one aside from Jecht and Tidus has ever left?

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Because of Jecht. Jecht was really the only one (un)lucky enough to get booted off Dream Zanarkand. Tidus was on purpose. Jecht went for him. Auron got there on purpose to protect Tidus. Going there might require help from the fayth / SIN or being an unsent.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

- Speaking of Auron, it sure is convenient that there's some rule about how not ALL Unsent turn into fiends, only some of them for whatever reason. If an Unsent can just live their life as a normal human after death then why would they ever "resent the living"?

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They can only if the cling to life & aren't envyous of the living. The only unsent we know of are Yevon-sheeple & Auron. Notice how Auron after being unsent looks 50+ even though he is in his 30s? He also can't use his left arm that much.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

- What's even the point of Seymour's marriage plot? He obviously doesn't have Spira's best interests in mind like he claims, but otherwise there's no real reason to marry Yuna other than to get back at her and Tidus I guess, but he was trying to marry her before they'd even done anything to him. I guess she is pretty cute, but that's hardly a good motivation for your main antagonist.

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Racismn. No really. Guado are hated and also exclude themselves willingly. This doesn't help Seymour in his pursuit of more power and influence. A marriage with famous Braska daughter and nice Yuna would. If the gentle Yuna can see the good in him will you too?

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Originally Posted by Ameela

- If Yu Yevon possesses the Final Aeon whenever it kills Sin before it turns into the new Sin then why doesn't he just remain in control of Sin at all times? That would have saved him a lot of trouble when Sin was actively helping the people trying to put a stop to his plans. I guess he's not omniscient, but he should at least be aware of Sin's whereabouts and movements - in fact since the whole point of Sin was to perserve Dream Zanarkand then it seems pretty unnatural that he wouldn't get pissed about Jecht destroying it as Sin.

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Yes the fake god that is worshipped by crazy people is not omnipotent. It was explained that it takes time for Yu Yevon's control to work. That's how the calm is made. Dream Zanarkand was remade. It's a summon. If Ifritt dies once it can be summoned again. Same for the city unless of course the dreams would end. I don't know why you think that the whole point of SIN would be to preserve Dream Zanarkand. Yu Yevon can still kill in order for him to be seen as a god. Why attack Kilika if you just want to preserve a city?


Everything explainable without faults imho. Like Dynamis, hence why i never said that this part of the lore has a logical error. Please explain how the Elpis time travel makes sense. After all our intervention didn't cause anything, right? So why was the timeline Graha is from not destroyed by Meteion?

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

Am I the only one totally disinterested in the whole void story line? It's, once again, feeling rushed and pretty pointless to even have. Zero's name is indicative to how much character she has and how much interest I have in her. Zero's name is also indicative to how much of a threat Golbez will probably end up being. I miss Garlemald, I miss Jullus. When are we going to be able to see Jullus again.

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Only because they're implementing it in such a lackluster manner. It COULD be an interesting arc, but I doubt it will end up being one.

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

scenes clearly done in an attempt to make me cry (seriously, they ruined the Haurchefant scene with so much flashback. I roll my eyes every time it happens)

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So like, am I the only one who failed to form some manner of attachment to that dude? The game seems to want to keep making me angst over some knight I feel like I barely even really knew. Haurchefant barely shows up in Heavensward proper, and his ARR presence is limited to a single not all that lengthy quest chain. It really feels like when he died I'm more like....

"Oh no! Anyway!"

Because the guy never really registered on my radar.

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

So like, am I the only one who failed to form some manner of attachment to that dude? The game seems to want to keep making me angst over some knight I feel like I barely even really knew. Haurchefant barely shows up in Heavensward proper, and his ARR presence is limited to a single not all that lengthy quest chain. It really feels like when he died I'm more like....

"Oh no! Anyway!"

Because the guy never really registered on my radar.

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Same, really. With Moenbryda as well. They were not given enough time or development for me to actually feel much.
I felt more sad at the inevitable death of the antagonists.

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

Only because they're implementing it in such a lackluster manner. It COULD be an interesting arc, but I doubt it will end up being one.

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To be fair, that could be said of nearly every idea. It is a shame that the last decade feels like good ideas with executions that felt more like a safe, half hearted attempt.

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Originally Posted by Lelila38

Same, really. With Moenbryda as well. They were not given enough time or development for me to actually feel much.
I felt more sad at the inevitable death of the antagonists.

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For a game that loves its flashbacks and regurgitating explanations back and forth, it's kind of odd there was absolutely nothing about the circumstances of Moenbryda's death, which the average player would have definitely forgotten about given it was all the way back in 2.x. Nabriales is in the 'done dirty' corner with Regula who the devs seem to want to forget about even though he was in the MSQ and a sidequest chain. Nabs himself was also in the MSQ and has his own trial that still pulps sprouts to this day. Not to mention... he was also a milestone in that the Scions discovered how to perma-kill an ascian.

It just all feels rather... selective.

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Originally Posted by BRVV

Please explain how the Elpis time travel makes sense. After all our intervention didn't cause anything, right? So why was the timeline Graha is from not destroyed by Meteion?

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The WoL's intervention very much did have an effect. It's part of the causal loop. Elpis is set at a point in the timeline long before the 8UC (which I'll note is in fact the original timeline) and splinter (in which the game is presently set) divided. E.g. the WoL from the splinter going back to Elpis and maintaining the casual loop will keep the 8UC timeline going as well. Think of the 8UC and tangential timelines as being like two branches extending from the same tree limb.

As for "current" events: Zodiark isn't dead in the 8UC, which means modern Meteion is not yet a threat to that world.

Game's got plenty of plot holes, but I wouldn't count those among them. I do, however, believe the use of a causal loop wasn't the best decision.

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

So like, am I the only one who failed to form some manner of attachment to that dude?

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I only remember Haucherfant because it kinda reached meme status, the count's acting afterwards is legitimately good but I never cared about the character itself. Not much a fan of how that kind of melodrama is handled in general by the game tbh.

I would make for a lousy MSQ reactor, can't weep on command.

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Originally Posted by Cach

I only remember Haucherfant because it kinda reached meme status, the count's acting afterwards is legitimately good but I never cared about the character itself. Not much a fan of how that kind of melodrama is handled in general by the game tbh.

I would make for a lousy MSQ reactor, can't weep on command.

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Haurchefant's character was mostly relegated to the Coerthas storyline in ARR, and he was one of only few characters whom supported you dearly throughout the exile and proudly proclaimed it whenever you talk to him optionally that it was very endearing. But he seriously was just a minor side character that somehow the fandom elevated him so highly that no matter what I always see fan art and posts about him. Its kinda annoying to be honest.

What about all the other side characters in this game huh!? where's the love for Hien or Arenvald, Gosetsu or heck in EW Matsya had a pretty powerful performance during the Final Days at Thavnair yet Ive barely seen ANY acknowledgment for him via fan art or stories yet the tall dark bunny sarcastic bunny boy Erenville who barely did anything noteworthy (besides the amusing quip about fooling a gleaner) gets so much attention and love from the community?

I swear the FFXIV community has some terrible priorities, and its not just stuff like this but also people's weird takes and fixation on overselling HW and ShB saying things like "its the best jrpg story ever told". I love this game's story to death but never to the point I make such annoying claims as well as also constantly crap on ARR or SB like they dont even matter. OF COURSE THEY MATTER AND THOSE STORIES WERE JUST AS GREAT!

Ok vent over, I just the more I interact with the FFXIV community, the more I start to hate it.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

The WoL's intervention very much did have an effect. It's part of the causal loop. Elpis is set at a point in the timeline long before the 8UC (which I'll note is in fact the original timeline) and splinter (in which the game is presently set) divided. E.g. the WoL from the splinter going back to Elpis and maintaining the casual loop will keep the 8UC timeline going as well. Think of the 8UC and tangential timelines as being like two branches extending from the same tree limb.

As for "current" events: Zodiark isn't dead in the 8UC, which means modern Meteion is not yet a threat to that world.

Game's got plenty of plot holes, but I wouldn't count those among them. I do, however, believe the use of a causal loop wasn't the best decision.

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Yeah that seems to be the only way it all makes some sense... with terrible implications. Weren't we told again and again that we CANT change anything? Guess they meant it in "it's already part of the timeline, bro". So we have 2 kinds of time travel. The Graha one that splits the timeline and the non-splitting one. The method could be the same. As you laid out, if i understand correctly, it depens on wether you go to a time before the shards were created or after. Why is this all bad, though? Well for one we have not been told if we could just travel again and there lies the problem.

Let's assume a new enemy appears. One who didn't exist before the split. Perfect! We can travel back and stop or change everything! Maybe he will never be born! But what if that being did exist in the united original. Well boys, girls & everybody else... let's travel to where the world was one and just vibe. Do whatever you feel like. Set something on fire idk. Or just harass everyone to tell you how to stop new evil dude. After all we CANT change the original timeline, right?

But i have to admit: it does make sense. I wouldn't want to see it because i thought the time travels were identical.

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

So like, am I the only one who failed to form some manner of attachment to that dude? The game seems to want to keep making me angst over some knight I feel like I barely even really knew. Haurchefant barely shows up in Heavensward proper, and his ARR presence is limited to a single not all that lengthy quest chain. It really feels like when he died I'm more like....

"Oh no! Anyway!"

Because the guy never really registered on my radar.

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Despite appearing a few times, I became more attached to him than many characters who appeared many times (I wouldn't mind seeing all the Scions die, I'm already sick of them).

The few times he appeared, he tried to help my character, and there wasn't that desperation to make me swallow the character (of course I'm talking about the English translation, and I won't get into the subject of how he is in Japan, even because I don't play the Japanese version).

However, they've been hammering his death since SHB, with thousands of flashbacks, references, and desperately trying to make me cry with it, that I've had enough of the phrase "a smile better suits a hero".

The more they force me to like something, to get emotional about something, the more I feel like the story gets stupid, and the less I do what they want. Seriously, write the story in a natural way, emotion and affection comes naturally.

Moenbryda, on the other hand, I feel just like you do. I don't give a shit about her.

Also, she was an ARR character, and doing two terribly long scenes while the world is ending was cringe to say the least. I didn't even remember her name until Urianger started talking to me on the moon about it. So far so good, but soon after we have another gigantic litany on the same subject, and I got a raised eyebrow thinking "guys... the world is ending. Couldn't you have done this sooner?"

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

So like, am I the only one who failed to form some manner of attachment to that dude? The game seems to want to keep making me angst over some knight I feel like I barely even really knew. Haurchefant barely shows up in Heavensward proper, and his ARR presence is limited to a single not all that lengthy quest chain. It really feels like when he died I'm more like....

"Oh no! Anyway!"

Because the guy never really registered on my radar.

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I didn't care when Haurchefant died either. Before I got to Heavensward (or even his portion of ARR) everyone was saying that he was basically your ride-or-die friend as much as Garrus Vakarian was in Mass Effect. Then he proceeds to barely show up and do next to nothing. When Ysayle died? I was gut punched for a week because we spent so much time with her, learning her motivations, and seeing her develop as a character (and enemy turned ally.) When smiling elf man died I was just like: "...Okay..." You can't just tell me that my WoL cares about a character, or that the people around me care about a character. You have to actually give me a reason, you have to give me a journey and a relationship and trials and tribulations with the character.

FFXIV makes this mistake repeatedly honestly. You're told you should care about certain characters and certain events but you're never really given time or a reason to do so outside of the cutscenes showing that the WoL does for some reason.

The haucherfant fanservice that they do to this day has gotten old. I'm on the camp that enjoyed his character and didn't mind the way his death was handled in Heavensward. Yes I do think he was a friend to the WoL and a great knight with strong sense of justice... But wish this game stopped trying to make me act as if he was a life-changing mentor that I lost? We didn't spend that much time together. Considering screentime during the MSQ and the legacy of the fight to end the Dragonsong War I'd argue Ysayle should have been more impactful instead.

I always defend Heavensward as the peak of XIV in nearly every way but when you think back on those details, they were already taking writing decisions based purely on fan reaction instead of logic.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

The haucherfant fanservice that they do to this day has gotten old. I'm on the camp that enjoyed his character and didn't mind the way his death was handled in Heavensward. Yes I do think he was a friend to the WoL and a great knight with strong sense of justice... But wish this game stopped trying to make me act as if he was a life-changing mentor that I lost? We didn't spend that much time together. Considering screentime during the MSQ and the legacy of the fight to end the Dragonsong War I'd argue Ysayle should have been more impactful instead.

I always defend Heavensward as the peak of XIV in nearly every way but when you think back on those details, they were already taking writing decisions based purely on fan reaction instead of logic.

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Honestly its not even the game....its the community at fault here. Why are people so obsessed with Haurchefant? Its making the writers try to shoehorn him every single time and its like come on

I was always indifferent to Haurchefant. If anything, the game doesn't kill off characters often enough and seems overly concerned with either playing it safe or milking certain character deaths to ridiculous extents even though it's perfectly happy to downplay and ignore others.

Papalymo, for instance, is rarely mentioned by comparison - and even Ysayle doesn't get brought up as much as Haurchefant.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Honestly its not even the game....its the community at fault here. Why are people so obsessed with Haurchefant? Its making the writers try to shoehorn him every single time and its like come on

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It's a little bit of both, because they themselves feed this "hunger". As others have said, I'm in the camp of having liked the character, but not quite understanding this strange obsession with him... but I take a fairly detached approach even with characters I love when it comes to fiction.

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Originally Posted by Jagick

FFXIV makes this mistake repeatedly honestly. You're told you should care about certain characters and certain events but you're never really given time or a reason to do so outside of the cutscenes showing that the WoL does for some reason.

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I think it also comes down to a misalignment of both how many people in the broader playerbase actually like the characters compared to sites they draw their feedback from (let's say the bluebird site is probably the worst case of it), as well as with regard to the intensity of any emotional attachment to the character. Is this more strongly expressed on said sites, sometimes to obsessive degrees? I'd say yes.

There's plenty of characters I'd rate highly and enjoyed (Elidibus or Emet-Selch, for example), but at the same time, if they began (or continued) taking the approach of just wheeling them out for cheap emotional manipulation, I'd find that pretty repulsive...

I agree that they don't understand moderation, and just keep hammering you with references to a character who's proven popular. What they need to think of is why the character became popular in the first place, and that rarely will be rooted in unabashed fan service/ego-worship of the main character.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I was always indifferent to Haurchefant. If anything, the game doesn't kill off characters often enough and seems overly concerned with either playing it safe or milking certain character deaths to ridiculous extents even though it's perfectly happy to downplay and ignore others.

Papalymo, for instance, is rarely mentioned by comparison - and even Ysayle doesn't get brought up as much as Haurchefant.

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Yeah, I think thats the real kicker thats been a neggle for me. She was very prominent in her time in post ARR and HW that after her death she was sorta...forgotten a tad bit and while Im glad they gave her some recognition in the Aitiascope, I think I'm more bothered that Aymeric or the Ishgardians dont acknowledge her memory for her being one of the first major people in their history to go against their tainted dogma.

Probably another reason why I didnt care that much for the Ishgardian plight in HW (nor why I dont think the expansion was that great).