Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

I may slightly be derailing this but a thought popped into my head. One issue I have with a token based system for all content is you need a limitation for it. if you are allowed to obtain tokens for every run you do then you'll easily be able to consume all content in a matter of hours and you'll never even consider getting loot the luck based way.

How would people feel if things were kept as they are now but with one twist:
The first run you complete will grant you tokens which can be turned in for loot from x dungeon.
So let's say you do Cutter's Cry and want to get that ore or whatever it is. The highest rank run gets you let's say 500 CC Tokens. And the Ore itself cost 15k to obtain so by doing 1 run a day with the highest rank you would be able to purchase one ore in 30 days, but you would still have the option to do the runs normally and rely on luck but the option in which it's done by token would just take longer.

Basically I don't want there to be a token system where say every run will grant you tokens cause then either they'll have to do something crazy like you can only get 100 tokens a run in which it would take 150 runs to obtain in which would give the "hardcore" a somewhat unfair advantage in the sense that they could easily just grind a dungeon ignoring the aspect of luck, but odds are within those 150 runs they may get 1-2 ores each.

With the 1st system though it leaves a fair balance for both the hardcore and casual, they both have the same opportunity to obtain the same amount of tokens a day but those who are more hardcore can press their luck more and attempt more runs to see if luck is on their side but they would at least know that by doing a run a day for 30 days they'll be able to obtain at least one ore. So sure it'll take 3 months(if you only do one run a day) to obtain but in 90 runs odds are they would be lucky enough to get an ore in a chest.

But ya figured I'd just throw this here since people don't seem to be a fan of the basic rpg element of random drops and luck lol.

Miser's Mistress<Aloes Roselet...

One thing that has since changed my opinion on the relic system is how you can guarantee seal drops in the top 3 provisioner spots. I am perfectly happy with the system as it is now. We get a nice gil sink from coke and the mage equivalent and we get a booming materia economy for at least a few months.

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Originally Posted by Airget

I may slightly be derailing this but a thought popped into my head. One issue I have with a token based system for all content is you need a limitation for it. if you are allowed to obtain tokens for every run you do then you'll easily be able to consume all content in a matter of hours and you'll never even consider getting loot the luck based way.

How would people feel if things were kept as they are now but with one twist:
The first run you complete will grant you tokens which can be turned in for loot from x dungeon.
So let's say you do Cutter's Cry and want to get that ore or whatever it is. The highest rank run gets you let's say 500 CC Tokens. And the Ore itself cost 15k to obtain so by doing 1 run a day with the highest rank you would be able to purchase one ore in 30 days, but you would still have the option to do the runs normally and rely on luck but the option in which it's done by token would just take longer.

Basically I don't want there to be a token system where say every run will grant you tokens cause then either they'll have to do something crazy like you can only get 100 tokens a run in which it would take 150 runs to obtain in which would give the "hardcore" a somewhat unfair advantage in the sense that they could easily just grind a dungeon ignoring the aspect of luck, but odds are within those 150 runs they may get 1-2 ores each.

With the 1st system though it leaves a fair balance for both the hardcore and casual, they both have the same opportunity to obtain the same amount of tokens a day but those who are more hardcore can press their luck more and attempt more runs to see if luck is on their side but they would at least know that by doing a run a day for 30 days they'll be able to obtain at least one ore. So sure it'll take 3 months(if you only do one run a day) to obtain but in 90 runs odds are they would be lucky enough to get an ore in a chest.

But ya figured I'd just throw this here since people don't seem to be a fan of the basic rpg element of random drops and luck lol.

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It would have to be well thought out, but you can always limit how many tokens you get a week and keep the luck based system in. So if you hit your cap for the week, you still have a chance of getting Darklight, but not any more points towards it that week. This is common practice in other MMO's. The one problem with it is. Dungeons, Primals, and Hamlet are the most entertaining thing right now. People will want to cap their tokens ASAP and not want to play the rest of the week. This idea works well when there is several other pieces of content to take on, but for right now, our choices are very minimal.

I think for now it just needs to be set up like Garuda, where you get two tokens per run again. Can set price pieces like make a Darklight piece like 40 pieces, and maybe a body piece like 80.

If they did this, along with their err...RNG system, it would be counted towards something, and would take a while to get all those tokens to trade in. Not only that, even after finishing your set, you may be influenced to get another.

I am sure there might be better ideas out there than mine, but I believe it is certainly better than what we have right now. FFXIV itself is just based around an unfair rewarding system and developers need to step in and take action now towards it.

(Meh, feel like I am just repeating myself now. :P)

Another day at Aurum Vale, and no drops for anybody. That was a nice day I could have spent doing something else.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Another day at Aurum Vale, and no drops for anybody. That was a nice day I could have spent doing something else.

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^See that's the problem with the current system. When you spend a few hours or a day and you don't see anything for your efforts (progress) you think about what you could have done that entire time and have got somewhere. Idk farming/spiritbonding for gil/etc or do your own stuff in real life. I feel like that is the part that really hurts...

Sometimes when you logon and play for a few hours and when you realize you didn't progress at all and got nothing in return, it kills your motivation. And on top of that you have 7 other people going through the same thing with you, assuming you have a static/friends you regularly do content with.

Even with the RNG system I'm still doing all of the content and putting in the time but it still sucks.

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Originally Posted by ReionDel

^See that's the problem with the current system. When you spend a few hours or a day and you don't see anything for your efforts (progress) you think about what you could have done that entire time and have got somewhere. Idk farming/spiritbonding for gil/etc or do your own stuff in real life. I feel like that is the part that really hurts...

Sometimes when you logon and play for a few hours and when you realize you didn't progress at all and got nothing in return, it kills your motivation. And on top of that you have 7 other people going through the same thing with you, assuming you have a static/friends you regularly do content with.

Even with the RNG system I'm still doing all of the content and putting in the time but it still sucks.

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I honestly wouldn't complain if it was one day with bad luck but this is three days in a row now where no one is progressing. I'm not looking out solely for myself here, and in terms of the actual group i've been the luckiest with one drop. I will be sticking it out for my LS mates with this ridiculous 1% drop rate, but i'm starting to think they made it purposely low to stall progress in the quest.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

I honestly wouldn't complain if it was one day with bad luck but this is three days in a row now where no one is progressing. I'm not looking out solely for myself here, and in terms of the actual group i've been the luckiest with one drop. I will be sticking it out for my LS mates with this ridiculous 1% drop rate, but i'm starting to think they made it purposely low to stall progress in the quest.

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You're right though, I can live with a day of bad luck. This system can reward you greatly one day and make you suffer the next.

I know you guys been running AV like crazy and the fact that I have not seeing you guys post the next step to Relics has definitely kept me from seeking hamlets. So I just decided to keep pushing our luck with DL for now lol.

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Originally Posted by ReionDel

You're right though, I can live with a day of bad luck. This system can reward you greatly one day and make you suffer the next.

I know you guys been running AV like crazy and the fact that I have not seeing you guys post the next step to Relics has definitely kept me from seeking hamlets. So I just decided to keep pushing our luck with DL for now lol.

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People I have talked have done a whole night of dungeon runs and haven't seen one. I still wonder what the next step will be? Someone was rumoring 50,000 beastmen seals, but it sounds far-fetched.

I, for one, can't believe the next step hasn't been officially discovered yet >.>

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Originally Posted by Velhart

People I have talked have done a whole night of dungeon runs and haven't seen one. I still wonder what the next step will be? Someone was rumoring 50,000 beastmen seals, but it sounds far-fetched.

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Man I wouldn't be surprised though!

I dislike this system but I want Darklight so I'm just putting up with the RNG unfortunately. As for the relics at this point it is the last thing on my list to do, if there's a hamlet party going on I'll go but I'm no longer going out of my way to make it happen.

I still am curious to find out what the next step is for the Relic. The fact that even some of the most hardcore people are not advancing to the next step troubles me...

Truthfully these should have been regular AF weapons to match the armor and come 2.0 for the real deal of relics...

People need a sense of accomplishment in a mmo, as in feel like they have progressed in someway when they log on for 10 hours, I hate bringing other mmo's into this but pretty much all mmo's that have over 1 million players follow this type of trend, as for ff14, and even ff11, you can log on for 20-30-40-50 hours and accomplish NOTHING! leaving a player feeling angry, tired and pissed off.

I know the Dev Team has been playing world of warcraft to see/learn why its so popular, well did they fail to see that other mmo's have 100% drop rate on bosses, yes if you can go into an instance in other games and beat the 5-6 bosses in there, they WILL drop something 100%, leaving the players exited that they have conquered an instance and got rewarded with drops, some may say well that's too easy, and that's not true, cause the instances are much more harder to conquer, taking some linkshells/guilds months, to learn the strats to beat this instance, and that is a lot more fun than going into some super easy instance with 2 bosses that you can learn to beat in 1 day but now you have to run it 100 million times to get what u need.

The next step is probably the salts. That would be my assumption, but until we can manage to get someone up to the 3 mythril's (and it's going to take forever). Then we can't be for sure.

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Originally Posted by AdorraEloom

I agree with a lot of this, I just tried getting top three on my server for hamlet ranking so I can have normal drop rate for the relic seals, spent 1 week, every day gathering/farming mats for the hamlet points, saved up about 1 mil points in materials, traded in today, saved 300k points for last 5 min, (was aiming to get third place) and ended up getting fourth. With 1 mil points traded in... This is why SE's current relic quest is a horrible idea! Honestly this random luck/chance loot system is exactly why ff14 has about 300k people playing and not 10mil+ . SE if you wish to continue doing your loots distribution in such a random chance way, I strongly advise you not to keep saying that ff14 is designed for normal people who can only dedicate 3-5 hours to the game a day, Cause that's a LIE! Current game mechanics are designed for players who spend 15+ hours logged in a day, so from a business point of view, you need to change your system or this game will never attract more players.

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Hi Adorra,

Ouch! :( Getting over 1 Million Points for turn ins and getting pushed out to 4th Place. You have my sympathy.

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Originally Posted by ReionDel

Man I wouldn't be surprised though!

I dislike this system but I want Darklight so I'm just putting up with the RNG unfortunately. As for the relics at this point it is the last thing on my list to do, if there's a hamlet party going on I'll go but I'm no longer going out of my way to make it happen.

I still am curious to find out what the next step is for the Relic. The fact that even some of the most hardcore people are not advancing to the next step troubles me...

Truthfully these should have been regular AF weapons to match the armor and come 2.0 for the real deal of relics...

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I really wanted these relics, gave it my best shot, now I give up after trying to get first step .... yea 20 mil gil + 1 week of farming to get halmet points and I only placed fourth, yes fourth place meaning I have a really low drop rate on relic seals was a total slap in the face for me. The hamlet ranking system (top three) is a cool concept, but a dumb idea, simply because every server is going to have those 5-10 crack heads that wont let any1 get top three, no matter how much gil and materials and time one might invest to try get top three, some hardcore player is going to outbid you, And that is not cool, because not all players on a server can dedicate 15 hours of play time a night, but now they are FORCED! to if they wish to progress in the game, gg SE fail once again.

Wouldnt it be possible to dat mine what the next step will be?

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Originally Posted by AdorraEloom

I really wanted these relics, gave it my best shot, now I give up after trying to get first step .... yea 20 mil gil + 1 week of farming to get halmet points and I only placed fourth, yes fourth place meaning I have a really low drop rate on relic seals was a total slap in the face for me. The hamlet ranking system (top three) is a cool concept, but a dumb idea, simply because every server is going to have those 5-10 crack heads that wont let any1 get top three, no matter how much gil and materials and time one might invest to try get top three, some hardcore player is going to outbid you, And that is not cool, because not all players on a server can dedicate 15 hours of play time a night, but now they are FORCED! to if they wish to progress in the game, gg SE fail once again.

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you probly should do like some of us and learn to pick your battles better

it is way too early in this process to really try to compete with the hardcores, even moreso on weekends when its worse

but i feel for ya on that many drops and being 4th

also while this is the best way to get YOURSELF the seals if you happen to have no group to run with, if you do have a group to run with you can always just rely on the sharing of drops til you all get 3 of each and can mopve to the next step together

top 20 is easier to pull off for top 3 for this purpose

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Hi Adorra,

Ouch! :( Getting over 1 Million Points for turn ins and getting pushed out to 4th Place. You have my sympathy.

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Thanks Kiara +), yea it stings a lot =( I'm a firm believer in the concept of putting in long hours of grinding should reward a player but in this case it was a total slap in the face ><

Thats why im terrified of trying for top3. I think I would quit for a few weeks if I ended up 4th with more than a mil invested.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

you probly should do like some of us and learn to pick your battles better

it is way too early in this process to really try to compete with the hardcores, even moreso on weekends when its worse

but i feel for ya on that many drops and being 4th

also while this is the best way to get YOURSELF the seals if you happen to have no group to run with, if you do have a group to run with you can always just rely on the sharing of drops til you all get 3 of each and can mopve to the next step together

top 20 is easier to pull off for top 3 for this purpose

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To be honest I did try to pick this battle at best possible time, I spent lots of hours reading top LS forums to see their hamlet times and spent 20 mil prier to the turn in buying out all cheap materials from the wards just in case somebody tried to buy tons of points last minute, but still even with all my best efforts I still failed.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

Thats why im terrified of trying for top3. I think I would quit for a few weeks if I ended up 4th with more than a mil invested.

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I'm thinking of quitting till 2.0 or maybe even for ever, I don't know I'm pretty upset right now so not thinking right but this really sucks ><

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Originally Posted by AdorraEloom

To be honest I did try to pick this battle at best possible time, I spent lots of hours reading top LS forums to see their hamlet times and spent 20 mil prier to the turn in buying out all cheap materials from the wards just in case somebody tried to buy tons of points last minute, but still even with all my best efforts I still failed.

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did you do your turnins last minute? or did you donate a million and hope for the best when you came back to check

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Originally Posted by AdorraEloom

I'm thinking of quitting till 2.0 or maybe even for ever, I don't know I'm pretty upset right now so not thinking right but this really sucks ><

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It's nothing to quit over. I know it has to be a real kick in the head going to fourth place like that, but you should have known going in that was a possibility. The top 3 spots are a war-zone, and most of the time those top three people have others hoarding them supplies for the turn ins. Just get back on the chocobo and go back in with a plan.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

did you do your turnins last minute? or did you donate a million and hope for the best when you came back to check

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I donated 600k at first, and first place was @ 900k at the time, and third was @ 200k, than last five minutes some traded in 1 mil and bumped me to third, which was fine, but than i got bumped down to spot five with third being at 855k with 2 min left, so traded in more and went up to about 1 mil until I ran out of mats, and before it was over I lost third spot with about 25k points shy.

Up until last five minutes I thought I would get second with 600k because non of the people on the list were there, but than they came... with 99+1 militia gear in their bazzars, right there I knew I was totally screwed, but when you initially invest 600k points your going to at least try and get third,

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Originally Posted by AdorraEloom

I donated 600k at first, and first place was @ 900k at the time, and third was @ 200k, than last five minutes some traded in 1 mil and bumped me to third, which was fine, but than i got bumped down to spot five with third being at 855k with 2 min left, so traded in more and went up to about 1 mil until I ran out of mats, and before it was over I lost third spot with about 25k points shy.

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yeah, i see your mistake, basicaly, what i do, is i get myself to 15th place or so, 100k tops turned in, then i wait til the 2-3 minute mark and see how many people are mass donating, if there are more then 2, i dont bother

ive snuck in with 500k 3rd places like this, and every other time ive saved my materials for other tries

sucks trying to do it like this but thats how its gotta be for now

my biigest suggestion to you is wait for a week or 2 then start trying when people start getting their seals and arent so gung ho about the mass donating for top 3, or get a good static group and share seals as you get top 20 each time, sure its not a personal drop, but youll need others to advance anyway with the stronghold bosses

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

It's nothing to quit over. I know it has to be a real kick in the head going to fourth place like that, but you should have known going in that was a possibility. The top 3 spots are a war-zone, and most of the time those top three people have others hoarding them supplies for the turn ins. Just get back on the chocobo and go back in with a plan.

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i wont lie, i got 5 people supplying me with mats for my top 3 runs, BUT, all thoise people are in a static group with me too, and i am passing all the chest drops to them, and when i have all mine we are gonna put someone else in top 3(if they have no seals in that area) each time too til we all get it

we also dont run it as often as some people(once, twice a week) so we have more time to save in between sessions too

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

The next step is probably the salts. That would be my assumption, but until we can manage to get someone up to the 3 mythril's (and it's going to take forever). Then we can't be for sure.

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I know what your problem is! You don't kill enough Ghosts!

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Originally Posted by Zdenka

I know what your problem is! You don't kill enough Ghosts!

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Speculation or does killing Ghosts improve the drop rate?

Need to kill them after you activate the ebon panel.

All Ghosts didn't do anything.

I guess if SE made the next step "Turn in 300 ixali ebonknots (or other types for certain weapons)" people would complain that it's all grinding. If it's random generators, people complain that it's too much luck. It's still grinding either way. This way just encourages noobs with no gil to also participate and stimulate the economy.

I only read the comments in most first page about 5-6 pages.

IMO , once I've heard that
"willpower (to putting in some effort) , skills , talent (or gifted) and wisdom is important
but all that's just not enough to be successful , you'll need to have luck too."

Ability is of little account without opportunity.

and i think what I've heard is really mean to apply to this game

We've tried pretty much everything possible to try and increase the drop rate for the Miser's Mythrils ranging from killing specific monsters, no fruits, killing everything, speed runs, incapacitation, and more. The only thing we came to the conclusion of is that it just is a shitty drop rate. This is day four of no Mythril drops now.

1/70ish total runs.
1/560ish combined individual chests.

They really should rethink this system. I wouldn't even care if they upped the required Mythril's to like 100 needed in favor of a 50% drop rate on the item. Expecting your player base to go days on end with no drops for anybody is disheartening and not how you should do content.

Sad thing is that Darklight is going to hit the floor in the near future due to how frequent we get that and not the Mythril -.-

Coming up to 700 replies and over 350 likes. Time for a dev response soon hopefully.

oh and one more thing for someone who want progress/guaranteed
On Guaranteed system everyone will have it when they work on it eventually
RNG is not guaranteed for everyone to have it even someone who work his ass off may not get it eventually

and that's the point of RNG , since Yoshi-P said from the start that "Not everyone will obtain it"

So for the one who's working on it let's just pray that you're not the bag egg

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btw I've a question i really don't know the answer though.

Why so many people mention , compare and bringing up WoW and FFXI
while not compare to some classic RNG base game like RO to this game?
I bet most of you've play RO , King of King , Ultima Online , Dragon Raja or Diablo II
and enjoyed it even it's RNG base on every drops in the game so why not this game too?

OK.

1/70ish total runs.
1/560ish combined individual chests.

http://ratisil.net/toey/ffxiv/16-06-2012%2003-31-01.jpg

Oh my never seen anyone else bring up UO on these boards. It's true even the "Leveling" your skills in UO is RNG based. Kind of like early FFXIV to be exact but there was no limit to how many "Skillups" you could get off a single monster.

If one could survive a hit from a strong monster your chances to get sheild skill (if your using a sheild) were much higher it was all level based.

Of course it wasn't a total crapshoot due to your being able to effect the percentages of skilling up for most skills.

there is no need for any dev to reply to these sort of thread.

its not about bug, not about hack, not about player character skill abilities, not about core game system.
its just a thread about certain group of players being upset about droprate of items they don't need to be able to access the game's available content.


the only time we should be complaining is when the dev made contents that can't be access by 99.9% of the player's populations not because of player levels but just because the players are not godly geared.

Are you retarded?

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Originally Posted by Eard

there is no need for any dev to reply to these sort of thread.

its not about bug, not about hack, not about player character skill abilities, not about core game system.
its just a thread about certain group of players being upset about droprate of items they don't need to be able to access the game's available content.


the only time we should be complaining is when the dev made contents that can't be access by 99.9% of the player's populations not because of player levels but just because the players are not godly geared.

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When a game that is starving for content, releases content that is tailored to a very very little % of the current population and a VAST % of the population the developer is trying to charm and attain, then we have a problem, there is an obvious disconnect between the developing team and the player base, when almost 90% of the content is RGN based with extremely low drop base, and the answer is to add an even higher RGN based Content.