Has anyone quit healing?

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Originally Posted by Gravagar

Assistant might mean they're new to the team, but being mentored. So, I guess that applies the whole "you get less work done while mentoring" thing. Maybe we actually only have, effectively, 2 people on the team right now.

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Apply for a job in SE to make their team more proffesional. Lulz

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

E4S Clear no healer
Feel like this has interesting implications for fight design/healer design.

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Have you watched the video ? This means that they need to either remove regen heal from summoner or make it not stackable. Thats has nothing to do with healing is useless. If it was useless u would see them killing it WITHOUT HEALS....

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Originally Posted by Kazukiyashuo

Thats has nothing to do with healing is useless.

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They never said that the video meant that healing is useless, however, if you want to go to extremes, then one implication you can make from watching the video is that dedicated healing is quite useless.

Which is a problem, because Squeen has been preaching for a dedication to healing.

Ah healing, ever unique. The only role that not only converges to pressing one button over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again as the skill ceiling approaches, but has a sizeable fanbase that, defying all sense, cheers this dreadful state of affairs on.

Nope. Goodbye

On my now expired main account I played the job that bears the Scholar job symbol. I got as far as Titan Savage until I called it quits. Originally I wasn't even a healer main but no one else in the guild was willing to play a healer other than White Mage for the savage static so I went "SCH". The job isn't the Scholar I loved in Heavensward nor the one I liked in Stormblood. Fairy management and dots used to be the big things for me. Nowadays the fairy is not far from a minion and I suspect it will be reduced to a non-placeable graphical effect in the next expac. So Scholar is shelved until some improvement happens.

Bitter? Oh yeah. Quit healing completely? Nah. Healers are super-good for skipping dungeon queues now. I think the adventurer in need -algorithm is borked, I've had instaqueue as a WHM every time despite AiN being tank.

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Originally Posted by ObviousAlt

On my now expired main account I played the job that bears the Scholar job symbol. I got as far as Titan Savage until I called it quits. Originally I wasn't even a healer main but no one else in the guild was willing to play a healer other than White Mage for the savage static so I went "SCH". The job isn't the Scholar I loved in Heavensward nor the one I liked in Stormblood. Fairy management and dots used to be the big things for me. Nowadays the fairy is not far from a minion and I suspect it will be reduced to a non-placeable graphical effect in the next expac. So Scholar is shelved until some improvement happens.

Bitter? Oh yeah. Quit healing completely? Nah. Healers are super-good for skipping dungeon queues now. I think the adventurer in need -algorithm is borked, I've had instaqueue as a WHM every time despite AiN being tank.

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Your experiences kinda highlight the problem of getting our voices heard. It almost doesn't even matter how cruddy the job design is, 25% of the cast of any duty need to be healers, and as long as that doesn't change (DF itself is a significant hurdle to making that happen), then people will play it because "nobody else will, and I want to play with my friends" or "I would rather skip the queue than play something else."



Other stuff compounds the issue further, like a void of popular healer-centric content creators, the frankly rude attitude of getting told "calm down, just wait and see" every time we actually speak up and tell the devs "please don't do those changes to my job, they are half-baked at best," only for our opinions to not change at all when we actually get them... I'm bitter too, and I kinda want to quit healing... But as long as people need healing, some of us have to choose between our friends and are our jobs. Never a fun decision to make, regardless of which you go with.

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Originally Posted by ObviousAlt

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Hear, hear.

I absolutely feel you. Being a returning player from Heavensward, I sincerely hope they reintroduce some diversity to bring back the job's niche. I.e. Sch's DoTs, and fairy management. For me, at least, Sch at present seems like a shell of what it once was. I still enjoy the healing aspect of it enough to main it, but losing all of my DoTs -- much of the job's fun and complexity, imo -- makes Sch seem neutered.
The homogenisation of the job roles is something I don't agree with. Although I understand the devs want to promote accessibility and avoid some jobs being preferred over others in certain content, I am genuinely saddened to see this come at the cost of a job's niche and diversity.
I won't quit healing for as long as I play, but I do wish I could get the job which I once loved back.

Edit: With that said, if the state of affairs stay the way they are now, I'll definitely feel disincentivised to return once my sub runs out by the end of summer.

Almost 5.3, took a break when I got burnt out, came back, still healing.

I was around when this thread started, and I'm somewhat sad to say that yeah, as of this week, I've finally quit healing for good.

I pretty much immediately quit healing dungeons after hitting level 80 on a healer, but I kept healing for my static, which I organized, and felt beholden to.

Now that I need to reform one for 5.4 it's pretty much over. It's gonna be strange thinking about fights differently, and working with friends from a different view.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

I was around when this thread started, and I'm somewhat sad to say that yeah, as of this week, I've finally quit healing for good.

I pretty much immediately quit healing dungeons after hitting level 80 on a healer, but I kept healing for my static, which I organized, and felt beholden to.

Now that I need to reform one for 5.4 it's pretty much over. It's gonna be strange thinking about fights differently, and working with friends from a different view.

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Won't be too far behind you friend. I told myself I'd cancel my sub after clearing TEA and finally, after having like 3 statics disband because of personal drama (don't raid with couples, that shit always ends poorly. ) I've finally managed to reach enraged. After that's done I'll cancel my sub until SE decides they actually give a shit about healers.

Wish you the best of luck in your raiding escapades. Hope a new perspective is better than the healing one. God did spamming broil in these past 2 tiers get old.

I am not a hardcore fighting game player anymore; but back in 2019, a pro fighting game player named Momochi commented on how many fighting games are taking the 'if we make it easier, then more people will play our game' like how the FFXIV devs over simplified the healers and tanks. In his argument, he states that simplifying the game doesn't generate new players. Rather, most still quit either way, and the oversimplification of the game frustrated veteran players, causing a split in the community. At worst, some veterans even quit! This happened with Street Fighter 5 and Mortal Kombat 11, and I believe the same exact issue is happening with the healer and tank communities in FFXIV.

Making the game easier won't fix any problems as good players will always do good and newbies with no patience will get frustrated and quit. Tanks and Healers are still played less compared to DPS classes. Making the jobs easier did nothing! All SE did was frustrate veteran players by limiting their playstyle and removing job identity.

If you want to see Momochi's argument, here's a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBmjwMgDQ0U

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

I am not a hardcore fighting game player anymore; but back in 2019, a pro fighting game player named Momochi commented on how many fighting games are taking the 'if we make it easier, then more people will play our game' like how the FFXIV devs over simplified the healers and tanks. In his argument, he states that simplifying the game doesn't generate new players. Rather, most still quit either way, and the oversimplification of the game frustrated veteran players, causing a split in the community. At worst, some veterans even quit! This happened with Street Fighter 5 and Mortal Kombat 11, and I believe the same exact issue is happening with the healer and tank communities in FFXIV.

Making the game easier won't fix any problems as good players will always do good and newbies with no patience will get frustrated and quit. Tanks and Healers are still played less compared to DPS classes. Making the jobs easier did nothing! All SE did was frustrate veteran players by limiting their playstyle and removing job identity.

If you want to see Momochi's argument, here's a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBmjwMgDQ0U

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Short, sweet, and to the point. Thanks for sharing this, I agree that it fits the situation too well, though 14 does have one unique thing that differs from fighting games: Duty Finder... DF feels like kind of a thorn in the side of getting the dumbing-down of healers addressed, because, "well, people are still playing it, right? 25% of all slots have to be this, and DF congestion hasn't been TOO bad, right?" There's a subset of players who play healers specifically to avoid DF congestion as much as possible. This leads to people with zero investment whatsoever in any intrinsic factor of the role playing it, solely queueing as it for the extrinsic duty rewards. Healers could've gotten an even worse rework, and there would be some non-veterans that would still play it, because it's required. Getting queued with a player like that is like playing against someone who only mashes their one-button combos- .


Yeah... It's not just that healers being bad is bad for healers. Giving healers a good rework that makes them happy will make everyone who plays with healers happy, too. Things spiral both ways.

Hence I take the view, don't make healing easier, sure try to give it a low skill floor, but gives people more tools to help improve and build confidence and feel like they can do this.

What's more rewarding, finding healing is easier so you can clear more content?

Or learning to heal better and earning that content and being like, "holy shi I healed that?"

A low skill floor is there to give a good entry point for newbies, but a higher skill ceiling allows for the job to be more interesting once you have gotten used to the core gameplay mechanics.

I finally joined a static and am having a good time... but I ain't playing healer anymore.

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

I am not a hardcore fighting game player anymore; but back in 2019, a pro fighting game player named Momochi commented on how many fighting games are taking the 'if we make it easier, then more people will play our game' like how the FFXIV devs over simplified the healers and tanks. In his argument, he states that simplifying the game doesn't generate new players. Rather, most still quit either way, and the oversimplification of the game frustrated veteran players, causing a split in the community. At worst, some veterans even quit! This happened with Street Fighter 5 and Mortal Kombat 11, and I believe the same exact issue is happening with the healer and tank communities in FFXIV.

Making the game easier won't fix any problems as good players will always do good and newbies with no patience will get frustrated and quit. Tanks and Healers are still played less compared to DPS classes. Making the jobs easier did nothing! All SE did was frustrate veteran players by limiting their playstyle and removing job identity.

If you want to see Momochi's argument, here's a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBmjwMgDQ0U

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Good argument as it applies to fighting games, but people go to a fighting game and a theme park MMO for different things.

as much as theres lots of people quitting healing here all i see is an extremely jumping number of healer in jp server, it used to be a hour or two just waiting for healer to come for weekly savage now healer is tge first one to fill, so yeah the healer population is jumping at a superb rate here, my main who is an SMN also using healer to do weekly savage since a monyh ago, so i must the if the reason of healer simplification is to raise the population, they are succuss in it.
(tank however, decresing in population for oversimplification xd)

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Originally Posted by Miminming

as much as theres lots of people quitting healing here all i see is an extremely jumping number of healer in jp server, it used to be a hour or two just waiting for healer to come for weekly savage now healer is tge first one to fill, so yeah the healer population is jumping at a superb rate here, my main who is an SMN also using healer to do weekly savage since a monyh ago, so i must the if the reason of healer simplification is to raise the population, they are succuss in it.
(tank however, decresing in population for oversimplification xd)

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I guess they really do just want anyone be able to faceroll on the keyboard and heal effectively. Hearing that is a discouraging, I was holding out for changes to scholar kit to be more fun, but I really might end up quitting for good. I love the storyline, but as a healer its so dry and boring to actually play.

Edit: but that tanks decreased due to over simplification made me lol a bit

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Originally Posted by Kinks

I guess they really do just want anyone be able to faceroll on the keyboard and heal effectively.

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Shit like this is really discouraging when I'm trying to learn healing and it feels like a struggle :,(

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Shit like this is really discouraging when I'm trying to learn healing and it feels like a struggle :,(

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And its discouraging to us who have played for years only to have the skill ceiling smashed on our heads.

You can always practice more, and you will get better and eventually it wont feel like such a struggle, yes right now I know it probably feels crappy for you, but you will get better. One day you'll get to the point where even you'll see that the downtime and having just '1 1 1 1 2 ' as your skill rotation will wear you out.

Edit: Also, us asking for our dps skills back isn't going to make or break your current experience either; you can still play healer in whatever fashion you want to and decide to, but the play style of many Scholars got kicked to the curb.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Shit like this is really discouraging when I'm trying to learn healing and it feels like a struggle :,(

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One day, when you know fights perfectly and you spend 9 minutes doing almost nothing but applying a dot and spamming a single damage cast occasionally weaving in, or using a single healing ability, you will understand exactly why people are upset. Learning to heal for you, I promise, is going to be much more fun than when you actually know how and realise how bored you are.

Half the reason that when I heal I play Astro is just because more stuff to do rather than watching a Glare castbar, back in the day I favoured old Scholar.

You'll "you'll get there" comments are encouraging, but I don't know if I will get there.
If endgame is as bad as you say maybe I should just quit now.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

You'll "you'll get there" comments are encouraging, but I don't know if I will get there.
If endgame is as bad as you say maybe I should just quit now.

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Well! With that attitude, you won't get anywhere.

Don't be discouraged. Do what you can to the best of your ability, and ask for help when there are things you don't understand. Even if the jobs had retained more of their complexity still -- like, say, the Sch's dps toolkit -- no one would fault you for just focusing on the healing toolkit as you're learning. (And if they were, I wouldn't lend their words any credence.) We all have different personal skill ceilings, but just because you find yourself unable to play the job optimally in the long run doesn't mean you shouldn't find ways to still enjoy it. Don't worry about what you hear others saying. I'm sure you'll do just fine. =)

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Originally Posted by ItMe

You'll "you'll get there" comments are encouraging, but I don't know if I will get there.
If endgame is as bad as you say maybe I should just quit now.

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You will get there. You won't realise it at first but as you play more you will realise that you missed a heal here etc or a dps stood in an aoe there and its made no difference to the fight for the most part.

Its better to heal too much than not enough. As you get more experienced you will heal more efficiently leading yourself to more time to prepare for the next mechanic or use the downtime aspect of your kit

most of the healers you see here on the forums are veteran healers. the difference between a veteran healer and a new healer is a veteran healer has the experience that they can call on to know, even in a brand new fight, when they will need to heal and when they get to use their downtime tools

at least if we had any in shb. Its just nuke and single dot for 2 of them. Astros have a borderline meaningless coin flip they can do on pc and hand cramps they can give themselves on controller

You heal first, then when no healing is required, dps, buff, debuff etc. The reason why so many vet healers hate shb, is because the no healing required % of most duties never gets above 25 or 30% and we don't want to spend 70+% of our time bored to bits pressing broil/malefic/glare over and over

Life cycle of a healer
1. Oh no the X took a scratch, heal!
2. Here's a regen/eos tank, oh you ate a tb? here's a strong heal
3. Welp, tank's fine, dps stop being idiots please.
4. No healing, now what...
5. What can i do while the tank is taking no damage...Glare! Broil! Malefic! BY THE 12 THE TANKS DEAD BECAUSE THEY DIDNT USE A CD
6. Ok I prepped for the tank buster, i got nothing to heal...eh I'll throw in a nuke and dot, nought else to do atm
7. *nuking intensifies* zzzzzz- oh! my dot needs a refresh....zzzzzz BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD LILY!!!! zzzzzz
8. I quit healing. Fed up of SE ignoring healers.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

You'll "you'll get there" comments are encouraging, but I don't know if I will get there.
If endgame is as bad as you say maybe I should just quit now.

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I love the endgame here, I just don't like how the healer playstyles went from extremely active in it to very basic, that is what the healers on this thread are fighting for and now gives you an understanding of their plight.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

You'll "you'll get there" comments are encouraging, but I don't know if I will get there.
If endgame is as bad as you say maybe I should just quit now.

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Don't be discouraged, man. I main Tanks but Healers--well, to be fair I only play White Mage, hahaha--are really fun in my opinion, especially when played in high-level/end game content.

Don't chase "there" so busily, just try to improve at your own pace.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

You'll "you'll get there" comments are encouraging, but I don't know if I will get there.
If endgame is as bad as you say maybe I should just quit now.

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The best players often deploy a decent understanding of all roles. It's worth leveling many classes, even just to see what fun each brings to the table. It will take a while. Let it.

Plus, healing a new 24-man raid where everyone is dying everywhere is always going to be fun, and you might want to have a healer job in your arsenal when those roll around.

(Just don't pick Monk for your first melee at this time.)

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Originally Posted by Kinks

And its discouraging to us who have played for years only to have the skill ceiling smashed on our heads.
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Yep it sucks to know that as you get better at a Role, your gameplay becomes WORSE.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

Plus, healing a new 24-man raid where everyone is dying everywhere is always going to be fun, and you might want to have a healer job in your arsenal when those roll around.

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I'd say it's less fun and more tedious / stressful to watch people die to clearly telegraphed attacks repeatedly.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Good argument as it applies to fighting games, but people go to a fighting game and a theme park MMO for different things.

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He was talking about fighting games, but the idea applies to gaming in general. If you dumb things down, lowering the skill ceiling and removing depth, then people might join, but they'll get bored easily and won't stick around. This applies regardless of whether your game is a fighting game, an MMO, a TTRPG, a platformer, a beat 'em up, or whatever.

I haven't completely quit, but I mostly heal just for Savage or my FC these days. I've swapped from Scholar to White Mage as I find the latter the least awkward to play this expansion (I really miss HW scholar), but healing isn't something I do just for the fun of it anymore.

I might if they ruin Astro with the rework of Sleeve Draw. WHM is boring and SCH lacks the vigor of eld, but still decent to play.

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Originally Posted by Dragonexx

He was talking about fighting games, but the idea applies to gaming in general. If you dumb things down, lowering the skill ceiling and removing depth, then people might join, but they'll get bored easily and won't stick around. This applies regardless of whether your game is a fighting game, an MMO, a TTRPG, a platformer, a beat 'em up, or whatever.

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Yes, but my point was that people go to a fighting game for the competitive skill based challenge.
A theme park MMO? Not so much.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Yes, but my point was that people go to a fighting game for the competitive skill based challenge.
A theme park MMO? Not so much.

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And, what exactly does this prove? Just because it's a "theme park" MMO doesn't mean it can't have any depth? You can't have any level of skill when playing classes? Is that what that implies? Because that's nonsense. The entire point of the "theme park" is that there's several rides and there's surely one that fits your fancy. Some people enjoy simple classes, sure, let them have some simple classes, maybe 1 per each role. Other people like classes with more depth to them, that take time to truly get down, and they should have a class that fits their taste. The problem with ShB is that there isn't a class for the latter player anymore, specifically for the healer role. Where do you go if you want depth in your healer? AST is the closest thing, and their depth is just "try not to give yourself carpal tunnel during your sleeve draw windows" and that's about as far as that goes. The rest of the time it's spam your 1 button in sadness.

I'm not going to pretend SB healers were the most complex things in the world, but god damn, they had SOMETHING. There was things to actually pay attention to, several timers to watch, and overall they were a very solid foundation to build off of. Shame ShB just threw all of that in the garbage.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Yes, but my point was that people go to a fighting game for the competitive skill based challenge.
A theme park MMO? Not so much.

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Even carnival games have their experts.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Yes, but my point was that people go to a fighting game for the competitive skill based challenge.
A theme park MMO? Not so much.

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The whole purpose behind a theme park MMO is offering something for everyone. Once again, I'll use tanks as an example. Dark Knight catered more towards players look for a greater degree of depth as it relied heavily on procs, MP and Dark Arts management; Warrior was the "DPS tank," and Paladin somewhat simplistic for those looking to ease themselves into the role. This created a nice dynamic for three different types of players. Two expansions later and all three of these tanks have become somewhat shallow copies of themselves. Yes, they still have differentiating abilities but their overall gameplay is near identical. Ironically, Paladin differs the most, and is arguably one of the hardest tanks to optimize. Healers have similarly become copies of each other—in some ways worse than the tanks who still have their baby DPS rotation to fall back on. Scholar is probably the most "complex" if only because shield healing differs a fair bit from regens. Nevertheless, they generally play the same.

To borrow a theme park analogy. Instead of having a handful of "thrill seeker" rides, everything goes no faster than the little roller coaster circling around a track because people would complain they can't go on every ride otherwise.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Scholar is probably the most "complex" if only because shield healing differs a fair bit from regens.

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Are they really though? Their shields are so gimped and not required for any kind of incoming damage, if everything goes as planned, that you can just disregard them entirely most of the time. The group will take enough damage, even through your puny shields, that you will have to spend resources healing them anyway so you might as well skip the shield part and just spend the resources you would've had to spend anyway to heal them back up for the next mechanic.


Unless we're talking about savage prog where you're playing it safe or ultimate.

id argue sch gets its depth from maximizing energy drains and minimizing ruin 2 casts rather than the shield healing part

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

The whole purpose behind a theme park MMO is offering something for everyone.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Even carnival games have their experts.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

And, what exactly does this prove? Just because it's a "theme park" MMO doesn't mean it can't have any depth? You can't have any level of skill when playing classes? Is that what that implies? Because that's nonsense. The entire point of the "theme park" is that there's several rides and there's surely one that fits your fancy. Some people enjoy simple classes, sure, let them have some simple classes, maybe 1 per each role. Other people like classes with more depth to them, that take time to truly get down, and they should have a class that fits their taste.

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I'm not suggesting that the jobs should or need to be easier.
I'm (poorly) trying to suggest that instead of the jobs needing to be harder or more complicated, they just need to be more interesting (not that these are mutually exclusive).
The fighting game philosophy brought up is fair... to a point. But it's not 1:1 relevant with an MMOJPG.

In part because a fighting game is two characters against each other in a vaccume.
In FF14 it's a gaggle of characters against a boss (and I I feel like what needs to be complex is the fight, not the jobs.)

In fighting games those characters have toolkits they freely use to respond to each other.
In FF14, like, every job but healer has a rotation. You do the same roughly 2 minute loop over and over and over again, and instead of that being more difficult to be engaging as the fighting game comparison suggests, I think it's more important the rotations be more interesting and unique for each job.

I love healing and I always queue as CON or WHM and healing is my life. For me, there is nothing better than getting everyone through stuff healthy and alive.

I tend to overheal, though. Gotta work on that.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Are they really though? Their shields are so gimped and not required for any kind of incoming damage, if everything goes as planned, that you can just disregard them entirely most of the time. The group will take enough damage, even through your puny shields, that you will have to spend resources healing them anyway so you might as well skip the shield part and just spend the resources you would've had to spend anyway to heal them back up for the next mechanic.


Unless we're talking about savage prog where you're playing it safe or ultimate.

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I was more referring to someone who isn't too experienced with shield healing trying to pick it up. I feel there's a bigger entry curve to Scholar since Astro has way better tools to ease you in. But that may be my own experiences speaking.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

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As you said, they aren't mutually exclusive. If they can make the jobs fun without making them difficult, by all means. The issue is you can't make healers actually feel like healers without increasing the required healing they do. That, in turn, inevitably makes the jobs harder. If they go the DPS route and simply give them a rotation. That only bumps them up to tank status, which isn't in the best spot either. Simply put, there needs to be some complexity to each job so they stand out. Black Mage arguably has the most basic rotation yet you feel its complexity due to having to know how to position yourself, when to hold things like Triple Cast and moving at the last second. While a healer can slide cast, that's about all they have going for them. And I don't think a 123 combo into Misery will fix that.