Shots Fired: A Machinist Guide

[QUOTE=Leeora;3130926

Also I watched the youtube video that was posted a few days ago thinking that was the most smooth I have seen a MCH work. I asked the person through youtube what rotations and what not they were doing to pull that off, but got no response. After more of the stuff I described earlier being encountered I decided to post on here so maybe I could get a better understanding/justification of things with the class.[/QUOTE]

I would suggest getting the ACT parser to check how you are doing compared to other dps. The front page has a really good opener (I've had an opening WF hit at 7183 using the opener). Other than the opener, it's keeping hotshot and leadshot up at all times and using CDs as they come up. Exception being blood for blood, delay it 10 seconds to use with hawk eye, rapid fire, and wildfire. It's important to know when you have time during the fight to pull off the WF combo. I hate when my WF lands when the boss is invincible

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Right now it's just not leading to a consistent damage gain, and you're really just busting your stones for no good reason.

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I was trying to go the extra mile and only have GB up when Gauss Round was up (and Ricochet, Reload and buffs), which was every 20 seconds or so. Which means I was putting it on and taking off in 20 second intervals. Just wasn't worth the effort. Lol.

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Originally Posted by iolanthe

Just using the i180 weapon, no hive yet. Otherwise 183 in total.

I just can't see the hive weapon being that high of a difference as such I'm being more critical on myself.

Hive Musketoon Item
Physical Damage: 65
Magic Damage: 50
Delay: 2.64
Auto-Attack: 57.2
DPS: 21.67

Kunitomo Kai
Physical Damage: 63
Magic Damage: 49
Delay: 2.64
Auto-Attack: 55.44
DPS: 21

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2 weapon damage is a lot, it also has 8 more DEX and 10 more VIT and a ton more SS. We don't know how much DET is worth because it was apparently severely nerfed in 3.0, so it's likely that the DET difference in the two weapons is a lot less than the SS, Dex, and WD differences total.

So go for the Hive weapon or stop complaining about how your DPS is lower than other MCH's.

So, looking at the Q&A, here was a question about MCH:

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Q17. It feels like machinist can't deal steady damage. Could you tell us how you envisioned machinst in battle?

A17. Essentially, you will continuously use Lead Shot and Hot Shot. You’ll want to use them when you get a proc. Machinist has many actions with buffs, so by gaining these buffs and using Wild Fire, you will be able to deal a large amount of damage. Additionally, as you get used to the future content, it will be important to decide which buffs to use while fighting.

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What do you think? It seems like he's saying we're made to be a burst class and not really deal steady damage. Not sure if there's a translation error about using Hot Shot or Lead Shot when we get a proc (I'm assuming he meant Slug and Clean).

I think the only buff we'd really have to worry about in future content would be Promotion... Every other buff we have is better being used during a Wildfire and we're saving that damage for a particular phase, our overall dps suffers greatly.

if sustaining 1100 makes us a burst class, wtf is a ninja

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Originally Posted by Odowla

if sustaining 1100 makes us a burst class, wtf is a ninja

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I don't think I've seen any parses with sustained 1100 dps. We hit high numbers during our burst phase and then it drops down considerably after Wildfire is off.

MCH 3:30 parses end right when the wildfire goes off which is by no means a consistent measure of our sustained DPS. The 4 minute parses that Hax was putting up before was a good estimate of sustained.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

I don't think I've seen any parses with sustained 1100 dps. We hit high numbers during our burst phase and then it drops down considerably after Wildfire is off.

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i mean 1079 is basically 1100
its close enough that you can round with decent error.

also, you dont spike too much on wildfires - i never dropped below 1k on all of my runs, and jumped like MAYBE 20 DPS when wildfires tick

Ok, one question...

When do we use our second set of buffs?

Do we wait a minute and a half and pop them as soon as they're ready, despite not having Reload ready (ie, Hawk's Eye, Blood for Blood, Rapid Fire, Wildfire) and rely on luck or do we wait 2 minutes and get Reload and Hypercharge as well? What gives us more dps?

Reason I ask is because I was doing testing on a dummy (no food or pots) and I started out great with like 1400 dps during the opener but after 4:30 minute my damage slowly dwindled down to around 840-860, which seems really low for a ilvl 180 character (no Hive weapon yet-- just downed Bismarck today).

Yeah just use them when those four line up.

No reason to wait on an ability that does 7% of your DPS when used optimally. MUCH better to line it up than to wait for a 300 potency off GCD after waiting a while minute

put it this way, if you wait for another 30 seconds, every third time you wait you miss out on a whole wildfire. not worth in longer encounters.

When the four line up as odowla said. Not using them is a DPS loss. Your wildfires will alternate one strong one due to ammo, and one weak one due to rng.

What I've been doing is toggling GB off when I need to reapply hot shot/lead shot, then swap it back on (unless I have Rapid Fire up, then I just pop that instead of swapping off). Is that something I should be doing or should I not even bother trying to stance dance?

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Originally Posted by PinnyAerani

What I've been doing is toggling GB off when I need to reapply hot shot/lead shot, then swap it back on (unless I have Rapid Fire up, then I just pop that instead of swapping off). Is that something I should be doing or should I not even bother trying to stance dance?

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While it doesn't matter as much with Hot Shot, you definitely want GB on when applying Lead Shot. It benefits from the extra 30% damage and it's our highest potency ability, especially given its high DoT damage (45) and 30 second length. Without GB, it's worth 54 potency. With GB it's 70.2--- 16.2 extra potency adds up over time.

Stance dancing and full time GB don't do noticeably different damage. I just turn it on or off depending on the situation. Buffs are up or not a lot of movement needed? Keep GB on. Lots of movement required, like Bismarck Ex? Take it off when the buff phase is over

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Originally Posted by PinnyAerani

What I've been doing is toggling GB off when I need to reapply hot shot/lead shot, then swap it back on (unless I have Rapid Fire up, then I just pop that instead of swapping off). Is that something I should be doing or should I not even bother trying to stance dance?

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Why on earth would you ever turn GB off for Lead shot? Or even Hot shot for that matter... damage is damage.


I actually like weaving Split shots around the two so you can proc slug shot without having to worry about any delay. GB is always on unless there's a LOT of movement.

So basically, I have been doing it right then with the buff to GB. I have been keeping it on for all my abilities other then the occasional dodge sequences.

Hi guys been wondering if I should keep GB on for moments like last boss of Aery when someone gets prisoned or killing orbs last boss of Vault? Would it be better having it off for fast damage? I've tried both to test but I cant use a parser so im unsure.

Has anyone noticed an inconsistency in parses among a group? Had two people yesterday give me two completely different numbers in Bismarck Ex.

@Orbiaus: For the most part, it's a judgment call. If you feel like you can get the damage off without having your casts interrupted, then I'd say keep GB on. If there's a lot of movement involved, especially while killing adds-- like last boss of Neverreap, then I'd say remove it so you're able to kill things while avoiding mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

Has anyone noticed an inconsistency in parses among a group? Had two people yesterday give me two completely different numbers in Bismarck Ex.

@Orbiaus: For the most part, it's a judgment call. If you feel like you can get the damage off without having your casts interrupted, then I'd say keep GB on. If there's a lot of movement involved, especially while killing adds-- like last boss of Neverreap, then I'd say remove it so you're able to kill things while avoiding mechanics.

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parse really depends on settings (how long until it cuts a parse, if its network mode or not, battlelog settings etc.)

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Originally Posted by Orbiaus

Hi guys been wondering if I should keep GB on for moments like last boss of Aery when someone gets prisoned or killing orbs last boss of Vault? Would it be better having it off for fast damage? I've tried both to test but I cant use a parser so im unsure.

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Depends on you. You don't need to be moving for either scenario you listed so there's nothing that stops you from killing things fast.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

Has anyone noticed an inconsistency in parses among a group? Had two people yesterday give me two completely different numbers in Bismarck Ex.

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Make sure they're parsing the entire fight in one go. Standard setting under options/general/new encounter after x seconds of no combat is 6s. Set it to 25 seconds or something.

Really starting to enjoy this class now... Going to try and make it my main

There's really nothing we can use other than potions to heal ourselves in a tight spot though right? I'm not missing anything there?

Unless you cross class PUG there is really nothing any class can do to heal themselves aside from pots. (Unless you are a pali master race 1200 (1800) potency heal wauuuugh).

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Unless you cross class PUG there is really nothing any class can do to heal themselves aside from pots. (Unless you are a pali master race 1200 (1800) potency heal wauuuugh).

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For like 33% of your mp with a 2-3 second cast time and no healing power to really back it up.

I mean it scales on strength so...

MCH is def lacking in terms of defensive capabilities. Using a cross-class slot for Keen Flurry would be a waste.

Machinist has enough abilities to press tho, so I don't want them to just add another. I believe it's been stated by the Devs that the placement of the turret is important, so why not expand on that?
An idea I had would be that you can use your turret as a shield to reduce the dmg you take. Which would only occur if you are within very close proximity to your turret. They could even visually represent this with a line between you and your turret.

If your turret dies I would imagine that means you probably would have died as well. It would result in a dps loss for the few seconds your turret is gone. But it's a tradeoff between you dying or you taking some dmg and having to resummon your turret.

Another idea that just popped in my head while typing this is to add a small heal when you summon your turret. Might be a little OP tho.

currently I'm just dropping GB to run in circles and pop potions when I can. Would be cool if one of the turrets had like a noise ability that would attract enemies but maybe increase their damage taken...

"defensive capabilities"


You can kill any open world mob solo as long as it doesn't kill your turret in <10s. Other than that I managed to do all my daily hunts at lv50 just by using leg graze and kiting mobs around, something bard could never do due to lack of heavy/knockback/turret. Hell, if the tank dies in a dungeon you can bind one and kill another while running back to wherever your healer is. Only stops working when the tank pulls a lot of mobs.


Only A/S ranks and strong fate mobs are unkillable as solo MCH, you shouldn't ever die outside of boss fights in dungeons and in raids/trials you just need to git gud, stop getting hit by avoidable damage. Second wind wouldn't save you in most cases anyway.

Parsing on a dummy is cool but i don't like it. I made up to 830 DPS on Alexander 1st floor stance-dancing (ilvl181). I need to try it out with full time GB.

Quick question. People keep telling me that the MAchinist LB still affects Wildfire. Is this the case?

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Originally Posted by Jeckyl_Tesla

Quick question. People keep telling me that the MAchinist LB still affects Wildfire. Is this the case?

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I'm fairly certain that LBs are considered their own entity of damage, and so it wouldn't be included.

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Originally Posted by typelethyl

I'm fairly certain that LBs are considered their own entity of damage, and so it wouldn't be included.

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If agree as LB damage is based off the party, not the individual using it.

Quick question machinists, does Wildfire count ticks of dots that have been previously applied?

For example if you go Lead shot > Wildfire, then do nothing else, will wildfire do damage?

Also does it count autoattacks?

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Quick question machinists, does Wildfire count ticks of dots that have been previously applied?

For example if you go Lead shot > Wildfire, then do nothing else, will wildfire do damage?

Also does it count autoattacks?

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Yes, it does count DoTs as damage, so even if you LS > WF, WF will do damage. And yes, it also tracks AA as part of that damage but you'll pretty much want to stay in Barrel-mode, especially if you want your WF to do 6k+

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Originally Posted by Humorless

Only A/S ranks and strong fate mobs are unkillable as solo MCH, you shouldn't ever die outside of boss fights in dungeons and in raids/trials you just need to git gud, stop getting hit by avoidable damage. Second wind wouldn't save you in most cases anyway.

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Hope that isn't directed towards me. That said, abilities like Second Wind, Perfect Dodge(RIP), & mana-wall/ward are incredibly useful in content that matters. . which is not hunts and soloing mobs in the open world like you used as an example. Also, you realize not all dmg is avoidable right? T13 Earthshakers aren't avoidable for example. On Ninja I could pop Keen Flurry to help reduce the dmg I took (thankfully MCH does have access to this, tho at the loss of either quelling), use Second Wind and I could Perfect Dodge one of the hits entirely.

When I'm thinking about defensive capabilities I am purely thinking from a raid progression viewpoint.

Please don't let me see another person that cross classes feint. Learn to slide cast. The only debate should be Keen Flurry vs Quelling due to MCH having such high burst damage.

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Originally Posted by FantasyForever

Also, you realize not all dmg is avoidable right? T13 Earthshakers aren't avoidable for example. On Ninja I could pop Keen Flurry to help reduce the dmg I took (thankfully MCH does have access to this, tho at the loss of either quelling or feint), use Second Wind and I could Perfect Dodge one of the hits entirely.

When I'm thinking about defensive capabilities I am purely thinking from a raid progression viewpoint.

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Those are also situations where you're not trusting your healer, or at best, trying to supplement your healer. Not to say that's a bad thing, but situations where damage is unavoidable and the raid needs to be healed up immediately after are where the healers need to learn and time accordingly. Raiding as a MCH since HS launch, I've yet to encounter a situation where I thought to myself: "If only I had a defensive CD or self-heal..."

It is always good to have an emergency button.

Not sure why you would want to say "naw, I'm fine with having fewer options".

Even if I believe that you never needed something to save your life (ps: I don't believe you) it can help lessen damage taken during big damage and thus lessen your healer's strain.

Think about it this way, even if all damage is completely predictable, wouldn't you rather your healers have to heal 7 people rather than 8? Or, in a more single target case, what if you need to soak some big mechanic? Why not just take no damage from it, a la BLM. Would you rather have that option?

This isn't about "git gud" or the ability to get something done or not, this is about options.

And while I think MCH doesn't need one, I certainly won't complain if they get one.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

It is always good to have an emergency button.

Not sure why you would want to say "naw, I'm fine with having fewer options".

And while I think MCH doesn't need one, I certainly won't complain if they get one.

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I just rather not have the devs think that this is a priority or necessity and instead give us something more interesting to our role; such as another support ability that isn't being a mana/tp battery.

Also, if your healer needs to heal 7 people, they're going to use an aoe heal that's going to hit you anyway...so that point's a bit moot =/

PS: Any time I've died to a mechanic it's because either I was standing in the wrong spot or someone else was standing in the wrong spot (e.g. double doodaw damage or me being the only person to help soak laughing rose).

Yea, but everyone makes mistakes like above - if you have something to help you survive that, it can turn a wipe into something salvageable.

If everyone played perfectly sure, you don't need any of that.

I approve of dropping your crappy leg shots and giving you foes - as of right now this is the reason we have a bard instead of a mch - TP and MP battery is mostly a thing of the past, except for very specific fights.

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Originally Posted by Haxetc

Please don't let me see another person that cross classes feint. Learn to slide cast. The only debate should be Keen Flurry vs Quelling due to MCH having such high burst damage.

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Haxetc did you ever get around to posting your rotation from that video? I assume even after the patch that it's still valid right? Or did you switch everything around?

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Yea, but everyone makes mistakes like above - if you have something to help you survive that, it can turn a wipe into something salvageable.

If everyone played perfectly sure, you don't need any of that.

I approve of dropping your crappy leg shots and giving you foes - as of right now this is the reason we have a bard instead of a mch - TP and MP battery is mostly a thing of the past, except for very specific fights.

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Just use a potion. This isn't productive towards the Machinist Guide, start another thread elsewhere on hypothetical skills please.

Finalizing a guide that goes over single target opener and rotation as well as aoe rotation and pet management. It should be out soon. As the wise YoshiP once said, please look forward to it.