Please do not lock Jobs to the Weapon Class that unlocks them.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Crazyness! Dark Knights are tanks too :)

and they should keep the generic warrior job.

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OK ... but that would mean losing one of the other Jobs. Which one should be replaced by Warrior?

You know...Job Specific Weapons probably = Legendary Weapons, Artifact Weapon (and that is it)

PS: Dragoons were just people who rode on horses.

This idea, not only is it not happening, but would be rendered the worst system ever by the elite players in no time, which technically, I guess, is still a step up from the current system

Also, it's not very good, frankly, lol

Allow access to more than 1 weapon, maybe, but not all lol

There's "support" which is somewhat different from healer, as Healers generally just keep the party alive and Support makes it so everyone else does their job better (either by buffing them or debuffing the enemy).

Thieves are damage dealers that just have the steal ability. They're more or less glass cannon types.

And another support would be Auron (Samurai) from FFX: he did pretty good damage but the real reason you wanted him in the party would be for his "Break" skills that lowered the enemy's defenses.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

There's "support" which is somewhat different from healer, as Healers generally just keep the party alive and Support makes it so everyone else does their job better (either by buffing them or debuffing the enemy).

Thieves are damage dealers that just have the steal ability. They're more or less glass cannon types.

And another support would be Auron (Samurai) from FFX: he did pretty good damage but the real reason you wanted him in the party would be for his "Break" skills that lowered the enemy's defenses.

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Thief in XI actually became a Subverter which is a type of support.

It was someone who used their damage dealing skills to manipulate the battlefield against the monster. In XI this meant they raised their single hit damage in exchange for placing the Monsters Hate towards a different character.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Thief in XI actually became a Subverter which is a type of support.

It was someone who used their damage dealing skills to manipulate the battlefield against the monster. In XI this meant they raised their single hit damage in exchange for placing the Monsters Hate towards a different character.

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There's more than just FFXI thieves, you know. About 16 of 'em.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

There's more than just FFXI thieves, you know. About 16 of 'em.

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Yeah... And I was specifically calling out the XI thief.

Thief in I was a fast attack character that eventually could transform into Ninja which was a fast attack character who could deal Black Magic.

Thief Didn't exist in 2.

Thief in 3 was again a fast attack character who could steal and assist the party in running from battle.

etc. I know what Thief is.

I guess the point I was trying to make is XI never followed the Trinity when it came to character archetypes and roles.

Every Job essentially had two main uses in a fight, depending on their sub job they could force themselves into or exceed at more

Each Character could fill atleast one of these roles.

1. Healer - Could main heal concentrating on keeping the HP of the party up during a fight. White Mage was the best Red Mage, Scholar, and Summoner could perform this task. In a Pinch Paladin, Blue Mage, and Dancer can perform this task if the main Healer downed.

2. Tank - Could take and hold hate, taking on hate they take the damage the monster dishes out and either mitigates it or absorbs it. The best jobs at doing this were Paladin and Ninja. Ninja was a bastardization but it got the job done. The other jobs that could perform this task rather easily are Warrior, Samurai and Monk. In a Pinch or for short term coverage a Thief, Red Mage, Dragoon, Dancer, and Blue Mage can perform this task as well. I have also personally performed this task as a White Mage with Paladin Subbed. It was easy. Especially on Bones.

3. Buffer - The First Side of Support. Raises the battle prowess of the players in a party. This person would end up lowering the time it takes to defeat a monster or reduces the workload of other roles like White Mage and tank. Summoner is by far the best choice for this, but Red Mage, Scholar, and Dancer do it very well. In a Pinch Blue Mage, White Mage can perform this task.

4. Debuffer - The Second Side of Support. Drops the stats of a monster like a rock. Red Mage, Warrior, Blue Mage, Dancer and other fit this role easily. Thief can do it at the right level. every job has at least one debuff skill IIRC.

5. Subverter - The third side of Support, a Subverter changes the battlefield rules against the monster. Thief and Scholar are the best suited for this. Dragoon also can perform this task with their jump skills. Basically a Subverter is anyone who can prevent hate movement, forces hate movement, or Destroys a Monsters TP or removes the enviromental bonuses of the field like Weather.

6. Damage Dealer - Pure Unbridled damage. Every Job in XI can fit this role in the right setting. But Warrior, Samurai, Dragoon, and others excel at it the most.


Sorry. I didn't get specifics for each job in XI. but those are the roles in XI.

Did you guys know that since Square created all of the classes and jobs that they can do whatever the heck they want with them? I think citing precedent is kinda dumb frankly.

Also, every game allows you to break down the trinity. XI did it pretty well, so did WoW. The Buffer/Subversion style classes are not usually sought out, but often overlooked when discussing the trinity in general.

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Originally Posted by AshTS

Did you guys know that since Square created all of the classes and jobs that they can do whatever the heck they want with them? I think citing precedent is kinda dumb frankly.

Also, every game allows you to break down the trinity. XI did it pretty well, so did WoW. The Buffer/Subversion style classes are not usually sought out, but often overlooked when discussing the trinity in general.

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Considering they're calling it specifically a job system to add some more final fantasy into the game, it'd be a huge blunder to just "innovate" the jobs all over again.

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Considering they're calling it specifically a job system to add some more final fantasy into the game, it'd be a huge blunder to just "innovate" the jobs all over again.

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Oh, spot on. I don't think they would go that far, but I also do not think it's going to be 100% the same either.

If that makes sense.

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Originally Posted by AshTS

Oh, spot on. I don't think they would go that far, but I also do not think it's going to be 100% the same either.

If that makes sense.

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It totally makes sense, as that's what they always do ;) Except with this game's release, which everyone can agree was terrible terrible terrible terrible. And FFXIII which I disliked but for some reason I do not understand others loved.

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Here's the translated info from the interview:

There's going to be one job that corresponds to each class. You do a job quest and then you get to use that job. Doesn't say which jobs are going to correlate with which classes, but I think Gladiator -> Paladin is confirmed.

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Courtesy of Rentahamster.

Guess that puts the final nail in this coffin, although I will say I'm a bit disappointed if each class does only end up getting one specialisation, perhaps they'll add more in the future.

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Here's the translated info from the interview:

There's going to be one job that corresponds to each class. You do a job quest and then you get to use that job. Doesn't say which jobs are going to correlate with which classes, but I think Gladiator -> Paladin is confirmed.

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What interview?? What translation? Did I miss a new Dev posting somewhere?

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Originally Posted by Sephr

Courtesy of Rentahamster.

Guess that puts the final nail in this coffin, although I will say I'm a bit disappointed if each class does only end up getting one specialisation, perhaps they'll add more in the future.

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Sephr, is it possible for you to provide a link to this interview and/or translation please. I can't seem to find it among the posts on this thread. Thanks in advance!

Even then it doesn't say anything except that gladiator will unlock paladin. Which we already knew.

Again, may I ask what interview?

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Originally Posted by Sorel

Again, may I ask what interview?

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*shrugs* He didn't use the proper quote boxing which would link back to the source post.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

Stuff.

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Assuming that interview quote is true, then that probably puts the final nail in the coffin for Final Fantasy XIV. A system in which you can only advance one class? Really? I'm having a hard time buying that one.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

Assuming that interview quote is true, then that probably puts the final nail in the coffin for Final Fantasy XIV. A system in which you can only advance one class? Really? I'm having a hard time buying that one.

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I don't want to play Ragnarok 2.0. which is what this job system would be if each job is locked to one class for its usage once unlocked. It would also be a setback for the Job system as a whole because it has never been a system about dedicating to one job, weapon, role, or skill loadout. The Job System has always been about learning various skills and sharing them amongst skills you already know.

Just copied it over from the thread about a recent interview. Guess it's entirely possible that it's not true.

Even so, you seem to be forgetting that the whole need for a job system comes from the fact that classes are currently too similar. In a party situation, in order for it to be challenging it would appear they've decided that everyone needs to specialise. Unfortunately, Ragnarok had a good system in that respect, so I guess that's what we're getting.

If you don't like them, just don't use the jobs? You could still be a Lancer and equip a cure or whatever, and be a unique snowflake.

Edit: Also, I DO want to play a game where specialisations are used in that way, it opens up more teamwork and the possibility of challenging situations. So that put's us at 1 for and 1 against, and unfortunately it's a game being designed for thousands of people, not one.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

Just copied it over from the thread about a recent interview. Guess it's entirely possible that it's not true.

Even so, you seem to be forgetting that the whole need for a job system comes from the fact that classes are currently too similar. In a party situation, in order for it to be challenging it would appear they've decided that everyone needs to specialise. Unfortunately, Ragnarok had a good system in that respect, so I guess that's what we're getting.

If you don't like them, just don't use the jobs? You could still be a Lancer and equip a cure or whatever, and be a unique snowflake.

Edit: Also, I DO want to play a game where specialisations are used in that way, it opens up more teamwork and the possibility of challenging situations. So that put's us at 1 for and 1 against, and unfortunately it's a game being designed for thousands of people, not one.

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No, the whole need for the Job system was to bring back the Final Fantasy Feel to Final Fantasy XIV. And I don't feel that implementing the Job System as a Ragnarök Specialization system would work for that. This has nothing to do with being a snowflake, It has everything to do with being able to do things that past final fantasy's let us do. With the locked down system you can't be a Great Axe Wielding Subverter if all of Thiefs Skills are only available to thief and thief can only be used on Pugilist. But in FFXI I could.

hell 90% of my favorite play styles would become unusable if the jobs were locked down. If thats the case why play the game at all? If jobs gave you skills you could then share amongst all your classes and jobs it wouldn't matter I could go snowflake and be what I wanted. But jobs give you access to specific skills no one else has access too and if thats the case, and weapons are locked to a 1 class 1 job bases it means tons of fun playstyles focused around specific jobs and skills from XI and other final fantasy's no longer become usable even if they are fun, usable, and not gimp.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

Just copied it over from the thread about a recent interview. Guess it's entirely possible that it's not true.

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Which thread, sir?

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Originally Posted by Sorel

Which thread, sir?

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This one: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rmation-inside

even RO had two choices, im not saying we should have had access to everything, but they could have had some jobs being able to be used on multi classes, like thief as glad or pug, or they could have had 2 roads for each class.
glad- warrior pld. pug- mnk thf con blm-whm
the classes usually had at least two directions you could go with it, oh wells, with this system they will definately need a lot more classes/jobs cause while freeform gave you a great many jobs via skill swaps, this put the job count firmly at 7.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

hell 90% of my favorite play styles would become unusable if the jobs were locked down. If thats the case why play the game at all? If jobs gave you skills you could then share amongst all your classes and jobs it wouldn't matter I could go snowflake and be what I wanted. But jobs give you access to specific skills no one else has access too and if thats the case, and weapons are locked to a 1 class 1 job bases it means tons of fun playstyles focused around specific jobs and skills from XI and other final fantasy's no longer become usable even if they are fun, usable, and not gimp.

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The jobs are for specific roles, if you don't want to be "locked down" then just take the job off when you dont want to use it, and you wont be limited anymore.

Stop the world I want to get off

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

The jobs are for specific roles, if you don't want to be "locked down" then just take the job off when you dont want to use it, and you wont be limited anymore.

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A Role doesn't define a weapon though.

So are you asking for all weapons to be available to all jobs?

Or just more options for jobs?

I think a Warrior would understandably be able to use a polearm axe and sword... so I see no reason why each of those classes could unlock and then use them with whichever weapon they prefer. LNC/WAR MRD/WAR GLA/WAR....

Obviously not every job would be available to every class... but would be nice to have at least 2 job options for each weapon class.

Armoury system and job system will work together nicely I think, SE probably already had this coversation internally 3 months ago.

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Originally Posted by Roaran

So are you asking for all weapons to be available to all jobs?

Or just more options for jobs?

I think a Warrior would understandably be able to use a polearm axe and sword... so I see no reason why each of those classes could unlock and then use them with whichever weapon they prefer. LNC/WAR MRD/WAR GLA/WAR....

Obviously not every job would be available to every class... but would be nice to have at least 2 job options for each weapon class.

Armoury system and job system will work together nicely I think, SE probably already had this coversation internally 3 months ago.

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He want every job to use every wep even something like White mage using a Polearm.

every combo would not be bad, just because it is allowed doesnt mean people would do it. For instance DRG/SMN in XI does not happen because people know better.

I'd be happy with job/roles having more than one weapon though. If its limited like that /grimace. Options like in XI of using different weapons opened up a lot of gameplay. Like in abyssea jobs could use multiple weapons for different !! procs or taking advantage of spirits within, or taking advantage of piercing/blunt/slashing, or for skillchains, or for stats, etc. I hate to use XI as a reference but I feel as an established mmo with lots of playability it is a useful comparison.

If the case is that you are locked then, I hope being locked doesnt give you too much of an advantage while playing a role versus not because of job special abilities, because that job would not be available on other classes. For example if war or drk are on axe, then hopefully they wouldn't take a dump all over a polearm user that has strictly DD abilities set.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

The jobs are for specific roles, if you don't want to be "locked down" then just take the job off when you dont want to use it, and you wont be limited anymore.

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This is an excellent point that in my haste I seem to have totally forgotten about. Maybe certain jobs will be locked to a class(maybe 3 jobs per or something if locked at all), but if you can always just unequip a job from your class, and essentially be a "freelancer" and do whatever. Even though physical level is apparently going the way of the dodo and certain stats will be automatically allocated at rank up, you can still allocate other stat points to whatever you want and(this time) they should have an effect. You''re not really "locked" into anything.

Sorry, MZ. Backin' out of this one.

I doubt Jobs will only be able to use one weapon type, I also doubt jobs will be able to use all weapon types.

I'm pretty sure they're going to be sticking with the whole "your class determines your weapon" thing, and you'll at least be locked in that way. Otherwise, why bother keeping the armory system(one of the last things separating this game from any other MMO) in the first place?

They can just add more weapon classes, and while jobs may overlap, you'd get different attribute bonuses or abilities based on your current class... Or something. I dunno.

A Gladiator specializing in warrior might get more tanking-related bonuses/abilities while a pugilist might get more DD-related stuff, while if they add fencer, it might get more subversion-related abilities as a warrior, etc.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

This is an excellent point that in my haste I seem to have totally forgotten about. Maybe certain jobs will be locked to a class(maybe 3 jobs per or something if locked at all), but if you can always just unequip a job from your class, and essentially be a "freelancer" and do whatever. Even though physical level is apparently going the way of the dodo and certain stats will be automatically allocated at rank up, you can still allocate other stat points to whatever you want and(this time) they should have an effect. You''re not really "locked" into anything.

Sorry, MZ. Backin' out of this one.

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Yes you are if you are trying to define your character based on certain Skills.

Lets say Thief is Implemented into the game as a Job and its skill lists include Steal, Sneak Attack, Trick Attack, And some other subversion skill that say,,, steals the buff from a mob and grants it to the thief.

Thats great Thief is defined as a Subverter Role. Its someone who can steal, and manipulate hate on the battlefield as well as strip a monster of his buffed stats.

Lets say I want to play the same character I played in XI? That would be a Warrior/Thief. A Great Axe Wielding Subverter. I use my greataxe for its superior damage dealing and stat crippling special attacks and Thief for its sneak attacks to deal excessive damage to the backside of a monster.

Well if Jobs are locked down to one weapon then this play style can never be recreated in FFXIV. So the Character I had the most fun with in XI I can never be in XIV.

Sure I could just run around with Marauder as my class and not equip any job. But If I can't equip the Skills from the Job that I can't even get close to the image of how I want my character because those Thief Skills are only available to people with Thief set as their job.

Based on the current skills we have now that means Thief will most likely be assigned to the Pugilist Class. Which means as a Thief you'll not get access to daggers either. Which goes against the Established FF lore of what thiefs as a job normally have access too and restricts them to the one weapon they rarely if ever use.

In the end its easier to maintain both the FF Lore, and the ability to create our characters from FFXI if we are able to mix and max our jobs and classes freely once they are unlocked and the class is at the appropriate rank to equip the job.

Hell I wouldn't even mind it if you had to have specific ranks to use a job away from the class that unlocks it.

IE. Pugilist unlocks Thief quest at Rank 20. But to use it on Marauder you have to be Rank 30.

In the end I want everyone to be able to recreate their character from FFXI if they chose too. Which is one of the promises Komoto and Tanaka said we could do. Right now none of the Characters I played in XI can I recreate perfectly. And I'm hoping that the job system will resolve this. But if the job system does get locked down to just one Class per job we'll never get back to those times.

I don't know what people hate the idea of any Job using any class and having it be like the subjob system from FFXI where the Job is your Main Job once you unlock and set it and the Class becomes your subjob defining how you excel at that specific main job. That was the major fun about FFXI, having all the jobs be able to use any as a subjob. Filling Niche spots in special parties, or showing up as you need for a XP party with what ever is asked of you.

Doing so doesn't ruin the Class Uniqueness because once you start using the Job system your need to worry about the Jobs Uniqueness which will already be set in stone by the skills it gives that only it can use. After that point the Weapon just helps you flesh out your character more.

Hay guize @ the SE please do not lock the weapens to each job, because I liek being creative and use Katanas on my Black Mage... it makes my own speshul class I call DemonMage Samurai LIKE ICHI-GO!!... It's so kewl right? And then I am only one on teh server using it, so uneeq!



http://tinyurl.com/4vlm8d9

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Originally Posted by Hellsoul-Sama

Hay guize @ the SE please do not lock the weapens to each job, because I liek being creative and use Katanas on my Black Mage... it makes my own speshul class I call DemonMage Samurai LIKE ICHI-GO!!... It's so kewl right? And then I am only one on teh server using it, so uneeq!



http://tinyurl.com/4vlm8d9

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Ninja are Elemental Mages who can use Katanas. your point?

Hell one of the ways they could implement Ninja is to have it so when you equip the Ninja Job instead of giving it a shit load of already used spells again with their own name it has a Job Trait called Ninjitsu and it can take any Elemental Spell or Status Effect spell and cast it as a Ninjitsu magic. Changing Fire to Katon when casted as a Ninja.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Ninja are Elemental Mages who can use Katanas. your point?

Hell one of the ways they could implement Ninja is to have it so when you equip the Ninja Job instead of giving it a shit load of already used spells again with their own name it has a Job Trait called Ninjitsu and it can take any Elemental Spell or Status Effect spell and cast it as a Ninjitsu magic. Changing Fire to Katon when casted as a Ninja.

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I'm trolling, obviously I wouldnt believe in something as utterly as what I posted in that last post lol...


I just think the way you see it is flawed... I dont think it will be "Archer unlocks Ranger" or "Marauder unlocks Dark Knight", because the whole entire "Archer" or "Marauder" name, will simply be re-dubbed as "Ranger" and "Dark Knight" and the re-invented around. I don't understand why you are thinking that a class and a job are different things...

Know what I'm saying?... they are going to get rid of these random "tried to be super unique and abandon actual FF classes without thinking they are important" class names, and go back to traditional FF STAPLES class names.

Correct me if I'm wrong and I missed a certain statement or source which said otherwise, but as far as I can see it, they are (and should) just ditch the old class names, and take on the traditional job/class names, and just revolutionize the skill sets they should have for more of a traditional class feel.

THAT is what they will do... if they want this game to have a chance to lift off the ground still.

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Originally Posted by Hellsoul-Sama

I'm trolling, obviously I wouldnt believe in something as utterly as what I posted in that last post lol...


I just think the way you see it is flawed... I dont think it will be "Archer unlocks Ranger" or "Marauder unlocks Dark Knight", because the whole entire "Archer" or "Marauder" name, will simply be re-dubbed as "Ranger" and "Dark Knight" and the re-invented around.

Know what I'm saying?... they are going to get rid of these random "tried to be super unique and abandon FF Traditions without thinking they are important" class names, and go back to traditional staple class names.

Correct me if I'm wrong and I missed a certain statement or source which said otherwise, but as far as I can see it, they are (and should) just ditch the old class names, and take on the traditional job/class names, and just revolutionize the skill sets they should have for more of a traditional class feel.

THAT is what they will do... if they want this game to have a chance to lift off the ground still.

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Actually they said multiple times they are not changing the Class Names as they are supposed to signify the weapon. Ie Gladiator = Sword + User in latin (Sword User is the Japanese name for Gladiator, its not some special name it just means Sword User) The Job system is being implemented Ontop of the Armoury System to give us Roles (Not Weapons) which are defined by special skills only the jobs get.

Jobs and Classes are two different things and not synonymous.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/2011/04...ditional-jobs/

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Actually they said multiple times they are not changing the Class Names as they are supposed to signify the weapon. Ie Gladiator = Sword + User in latin (Sword User is the Japanese name for Gladiator, its not some special name it just means Sword User) The Job system is being implemented Ontop of the Armoury System to give us Roles (Not Weapons) which are defined by special skills only the jobs get.

Jobs and Classes are two different things and not synonymous.

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So what they are expecting to do is somehow keep these random class names that they have right now.... and then also create a "job" branch off of one of them for example maybe a Glad could branch it's jobs into Samurai or Paladin? (both sword users, one semi offensive, one defensive)?

Ah sorry might have missed that just read a paraphrased report being "new job system, not just renamed classes" but however I still believe they are just going to overhaul the whole Class/Job system, because yes they are and should be synonymous as FF has shown me for however many years to this date.... I'd like to see a source saying otherwise so at least if that's the case I can update my own knowledge on the issue :P

As far as Yoshi-P's Planning charts they have always shown "Implementation of Traditional Classes/Names" as far as I know...

EDIT/UPDATE:

Hmmm I see, I appologize for not knowing about that, I have been out of FFXIV-land for a few months due to massive disappointment, and blatantly feeling that the community won't come back to the game even if it does make amazing improvements (real optimist eh? lol... ).

I'm happy to be back and seeing all of these changes in the right directions (and thanks for that source) however I still guess there's no point voicing opinions on the debatable open-ended technicalities, since who knows exactly what they will do in the end... thanks for that though!

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Originally Posted by Hellsoul-Sama

So what they are expecting to do is somehow keep these random class names that they have right now.... and then also create a "job" branch off of one of them for example maybe a Glad could branch it's jobs into Samurai or Paladin? (both sword users, one semi offensive, one defensive)?

Ah sorry might have missed that just read a paraphrased report being "new job system, not just renamed classes" but however I still believe they are just going to overhaul the whole Class/Job system, because yes they are and should be synonymous as FF has shown me for however many years to this date.... I'd like to see a source saying otherwise so at least if that's the case I can update my own knowledge on the issue :P

As far as Yoshi-P's Planning charts they have always shown "Implementation of Traditional Classes/Names" as far as I know...

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The job system - that series-defining trademark - will be implemented in FINAL FANTASY XIV (details such as specific jobs TBA). Quests to unlock each job will become available once you have reached a certain rank in the corresponding class.
Rather than being advanced versions of classes, we would like players to think of jobs as specialized playing styles optimized for partying. While playing as a particular job will render you unable to equip certain actions of other classes, you will be compensated with access to exclusive actions, which can be acquired through quests.

In practice, players will find the existing classes effective when playing solo or in certain party setups. Jobs, however, will shine in party situations where specific skill sets are demanded. Now, you didn’t hear this from me, but there are also rumors circulating that quests for obtaining job-exclusive equipment are also in the pipes.
We at the development team are currently hard at work on the job system, and expect to have details to share with you soon.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...print?p=138995

Ah yeah, sorry I did read up on all of these things today but I guess missing that whole "Job is not going to be the same as a Class in FFXIV" made it so it didn't occur to me as much, my mistake lol. sorry peeps for the ignorance!