SE Please start caring about your players privacy.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

You do not need the main plugin or any of its forks to get this data. Packet sniffers are old and completely separate pieces of software.

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Absolutely, but nothing gets better by shit like this getting easier. It's like how DDOS can be done by any script kiddie or some jerk with money because botnets are a thing now. Making the creeps work for it is going to thin them down, just because your average person isn't going to know how to use something like Wireshark.

On the JP thread, someone mentions seeing a post on a bulletin how data is being collected since DT launch regardless if you've logged it or not, though there's no way to confirm this either. Rest of the thread is people demanding an anti-cheat, but seems majority don't realize this wouldn't stop this particular issue since it's a hole in SE's coding. Anti-cheats get bypassed within minutes, and it wouldn't be as effective as they think it is in PSO2.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

Rest of the thread is people demanding an anti-cheat, but seems majority don't realize this wouldn't stop this particular issue since it's a hole in SE's coding. Anti-cheats get bypassed within minutes, and it wouldn't be as effective as they think it is in PSO2.

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To add to that here: asking for an AntiCheat will only hurt the normal player in the long run, and literally invites the devil into your home. Plus, as you said, this is not an issue that can get resolved by an anticheat, since the data can be read without interfacing with the client computer themselves (spoiler - just "man in the middle" yourself). This is a problem that requires a different kind of solution.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

To add to that here: asking for an AntiCheat will only hurt the normal player in the long run, and literally invites the devil into your home. Plus, as you said, this is not an issue that can get resolved by an anticheat, since the data can be read without interfacing with the client computer themselves (spoiler - just "man in the middle" yourself). This is a problem that requires a different kind of solution.

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That is correct. Tools such as Wireshark are often used for network troubleshooting and spotting unusual activity, it basically tells you how your computer is talking to others online. Anti-cheat wouldn't prevent Wireshark from being used, at all.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

On the JP thread, someone mentions seeing a post on a bulletin how data is being collected since DT launch regardless if you've logged it or not, though there's no way to confirm this either. Rest of the thread is people demanding an anti-cheat, but seems majority don't realize this wouldn't stop this particular issue since it's a hole in SE's coding. Anti-cheats get bypassed within minutes, and it wouldn't be as effective as they think it is in PSO2.

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when peoples private data are being compromised, it should seriously be considered. like, look at valorant, there are hackers n such that bypass vanguard, but they are banned almost instantly. square enix should prioritize the normal playerbase, not mod beasts who only play this game cause of mods. people who say the game will lose 70% subs for adding anti-cheat are seriously just coping anyway, mods aside, this is one of the best RP games out there, way better than games like world of warcraft even. im not against plugins, but this one in particiular has crossed the line in my opinion and has shown the potential danger with them.

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Originally Posted by shygirly

when peoples private data are being compromised, it should seriously be considered. like, look at valorant, there are hackers n such that bypass vanguard, but they are banned almost instantly. square enix should prioritize the normal playerbase, not mod beasts who only play this game cause of mods. people who say the game will lose 70% subs for adding anti-cheat are seriously just coping, mods aside, this is one of the best RP games out there, way better than games like world of warcraft even. im not against plugins, but this one in particiular has crossed the line in my opinion and has shown the potential danger with them.

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How much of that is actually PII, that is seriously debatable though (although I have opted to not use my alts or more than 1 retainer selling stuff for the time being). And again - adding an AntiCheat would not stop the data collection, as you can read the data without actually interfacing with the client itself. Yes, we need a solution here, but we need a solution that actually tackles the problem, not snake oil the normal computer user was made to believe will resolve the issue.

Personally speaking, I don't want AntiCheat because I like playing the game on my Steam Deck, and I doubt SqEx would enable the required Steam Deck AntiCheat libraries. Thats what I mean with it will only hurt the normal player.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

How much of that is actually PII, that is seriously debatable though (although I have opted to not use my alts or more than 1 retainer selling stuff for the time being). And again - adding an AntiCheat would not stop the data collection, as you can read the data without actually interfacing with the client itself. Yes, we need a solution here, but we need a solution that actually tackles the problem, not snake oil the normal computer user was made to believe will resolve the issue.

Personally speaking, I don't want AntiCheat because I like playing the game on my Steam Deck, and I doubt SqEx would enable the required Steam Deck AntiCheat libraries. Thats what I mean with it will only hurt the normal player.

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i mean they should 100% revert the blacklist changes or just fix the code itself to hide that data, but the plugin is what made this easily accessable to EVERYONE. creepy stalker plugin aside, if i was SE i would be quite sick of this game after this whole drama tbh, the game has a serious botting problem as well as raid hacking problems due to plugins. the game is beyond compromised, at some point enough is enough although i dont think they will add anti-cheat anyway. looks like they are trying to sweep this whole thing under the rug. personally, ive unsubbed and am not returning until its fixed, and will buy a brand new account since there are databases out there already.

Whatever the solution might be, they should say something. Silence doesn't really help, so hopefully they have already been discussing what can be done and will issue a statement soon.

Having no official statement to acknowledge things only amplifies player worries and concern as time goes on. Meanwhile it's already in gaming articles, and on several social media platforms.

To those mention packet capture as still being a option.
I am full aware information can be gotten this way however the scope of what this thing does (A certain creator features a video of the plugin in use) goes to the degree where the amount of effort would most definitely require more knowledge than the developer.
When it comes to being shared, "Install this third party program that runs with admin rights that is stalker purposed" is a lot less likely to be done than, a plugin. When, and it is a when, a public version comes out (It's in the best interest for stalkers to have as up to date information as possible), its only a matter of time before the mob mindset sets in of "Well I'm being tracked anyways I may as well be able to track back" sets in.

You cannot say that it is realistic that completely via packet capture someone is going to make an external program that both stores and displays, account id, alts, past locations (and how long spent there), past customizations, retainer information, actively scans around them for new people to upload, monitors cross world link shell, (From the code I read it just cares about the sender not the content, yes I have read the code before GitHub took it down as well as the two others referenced and coding is my job).

Do I think that anti-cheat should be used? It's hard to say, there is both very good argument for and against it, full platform support should remain if it was added, certain third-party program needed for the raiding community, I personally have nothing against what anyone does that is opt-in and accept the risk, it only affects them.
At the same time how much longer do we have before FF goes into such a state that it becomes needed? The reports of people noticing extreme bot like behaviour in roulettes in the last few months, likewise with fates, more and more of the game seems to either be becoming exposable or automatable, the line is getting pushed and pushed moving from QOL and amazing posing to botting to stalking. FF having the reputation of being the degenerate MMORPG full of weirdo's is already there, but if it carries on with this trajectory of pushing further and further?
I'd say this last incident is at least enough to start looking at what would be needed to be done to implement it as a side project in priority "Just incase". Developing further features with the knowledge that a person could do near anything they want to if it's not locked down, that should definitely be done, and it wasn't for new blacklist.

Everyone is losing to different degrees at this point, normal player, plugin user, competitive player, Square Enix themselves.

It makes me just want to just give up on caring like everyone I know has, but I'm not there yet.

Anti-cheat would be a serious loss to both the community and to SE I think. There are many parts of this game that are severely under-developed, so it wouldn't surprise me if there are many out there that compensate for these shortcomings of the game. - and with how neglecting the quality control is, I absolutely wouldn't put it past them to have something wholly ineffective, or something that misfires and bans people because of a specific hardware setup being detected as 'suspicious'

I think they do need to revise their approach. Whether it is being more heavy handed generally, or whether it is something like an approval system for plugins. Or just generally actually caring about what data is exposed client-side, and investing more into infrastructure and the underlying development of the game. For a game that has been running well over a decade, and supposedly aims to run for at least another decade, they need to be making more investment into their infrastructure and code-base, so that it doesn't lead to downright sloppy or needless mistakes/oversights like this happening in the first place

Half of this problem with third-party getting more and more invasive is because they have been so hands off and have tried to pretend like they don't exist, and how they treat this specific case IMO will very much determine how far more developers are willing to go in the future.