Disruptive Frontline Gameplay

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

So, you're proposing a special mode of FL, first of all what does "actually PVP on their own" mean? Secondly, how would you even propose that Square distinguishes those people who want to join just for experience but don't want to make an effort? They could hardly add that in the UI since its against the TOS, and for the same reason - there are quite a few people who agree with you i.e. 'i dislike people who want stuff handed to them for no effort for a reason".

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what i propose is this just two questions because i wonder:
would separating premades by putting them in their own separate frontline queues fix the complaints of other players?
or even those who want the daily frontline experience but their way of doing so is
usually get killed by the enemy team player/s a few times and possibly afk at the graveyard/starting zone?
its true those two types of players broke no ToS
but they are annoying to deal with regardless(one or two give up too early and that might demoralize the rest of the team?)

or i will say it simple would breaking said premades queue sync thingy will that stop them from doing their thing in frontlines?
to me and few others the premades are a bigger issue than the ones who surrender too early in a match and we end up third place with low score

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Originally Posted by AriannaStormwake

what i propose is this just two questions because i wonder:
would separating premades by putting them in their own separate frontline queues fix the complaints of other players?
or even those who want the daily frontline experience but their way of doing so is
usually get killed by the enemy team player/s a few times and possibly afk at the graveyard/starting zone?
its true those two types of players broke no ToS
but they are annoying to deal with regardless(one or two give up too early and that might demoralize the rest of the team?)

or i will say it simple would breaking said premades queue sync thingy will that stop them from doing their thing in frontlines?
to me and few others the premades are a bigger issue than the ones who surrender too early in a match and we end up third place with low score

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I'm not going to interpret the TOS, all that can say is the following: (1) I would be surprised if Square would view someone in a premade the same as someone who gets killed a few times and decides to AFK. (2) For myself, I have no issue with how premades can now queue in FL, as a casual mode of PvP (3) I do have an issue with people who give up if they get killed and then decide to AFK (especially if others are trying to help them) , I view that it not impacts my experience, partly because it demoralizes other people.

I respect that other people have asked that pre-mades be removed from FL and moved into their own FL. I have several reasons why I'm not really sure that it would improve things to the extent that some people think it would work- and no- it isn't because I am in a premade myself. I've never had a PvP static in this game :D

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

I'm not going to interpret the TOS, all that can say is the following: (1) I would be surprised if Square would view someone in a premade the same as someone who gets killed a few times and decides to AFK. (2) For myself, I have no issue with how premades can now queue in FL, as a casual mode of PvP (3) I do have an issue with people who give up if they get killed and then decide to AFK (especially if others are trying to help them) , I view that it not impacts my experience, partly because it demoralizes other people.

I respect that other people have asked that pre-mades be removed from FL and moved into their own FL. I have several reasons why I'm not really sure that it would improve things to the extent that some people think it would work- and no- it isn't because I am in a premade myself. I've never had a PvP static in this game :D

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all i want is their"queue sync" is to be broken or disabled thats my only issue

Anyone see Pathra's YT video on drama in JP FL via a disruptive Discord group? Wonder if it factors in to this broader discussion.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

I'm not going to interpret the TOS, all that can say is the following: (1) I would be surprised if Square would view someone in a premade the same as someone who gets killed a few times and decides to AFK. (2) For myself, I have no issue with how premades can now queue in FL, as a casual mode of PvP (3) I do have an issue with people who give up if they get killed and then decide to AFK (especially if others are trying to help them) , I view that it not impacts my experience, partly because it demoralizes other people.

I respect that other people have asked that pre-mades be removed from FL and moved into their own FL. I have several reasons why I'm not really sure that it would improve things to the extent that some people think it would work- and no- it isn't because I am in a premade myself. I've never had a PvP static in this game :D

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Thus we get back to the question of what is driving the demoralization, the nadir of which is AFKing. (Something I didn't see much of, FWIW.)

I'm intrigued by the idea of rewards being linked to performance, but that seems a heavy lift for SE. It would dovetail nicely with LB recharge only occurring during combat though. That's an idea I think has promise. If participation is being rewarded by that big chunk of roulette XP, the word should mean "participate in the battle," not simply turn up and look pretty.

The problem with performance-related awards, however, is that it incentivizes the formation of increasingly efficient premades, which to me are the primary cause of players getting demoralized.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Thus we get back to the question of what is driving the demoralization, the nadir of which is AFKing. (Something I didn't see much of, FWIW.)

I'm intrigued by the idea of rewards being linked to performance, but that seems a heavy lift for SE. It would dovetail nicely with LB recharge only occurring during combat though. That's an idea I think has promise. If participation is being rewarded by that big chunk of roulette XP, the word should mean "participate in the battle," not simply turn up and look pretty.

The problem with performance-related awards, however, is that it incentivizes the formation of increasingly efficient premades, which to me are the primary cause of players getting demoralized.

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Well, you bring up some very good points. In principle, players are rewarded for participating but it seems to fly over a lot of people's heads. For example, if someone is just queuing for XP- they'll get more XP for a first place, but it seems that a lot of that group is also the least motivated/interested in PvP and quits in the face of a more difficult match. So they'll settle for whatever place they get, and some of them will just AFK, and worse- some of them will force a loss as quickly as possible so they can leave. Not really fun.

So I agree in principle that performance based-rewards would be an additional incentive. There's a few questions regarding how performance is actually measured, is it going to be per job for example? and I would not compare someone who solo-queued against a pre-made group. Who knows- it might end up initially being "you are in the bottom "x" players and/or "you didn't contribute, sorry, no reward for you". I have seen a similar system when a certain number of players who didn't do a certain % of damage as compared to other players get nothing and definitely was an incentive.

Regarding the premade. Yes, I see some players being demoralized. However I also see some players simply giving up and literally not using any of their skills at the first death. That's not a "premade issue".

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

So I agree in principle that performance based-rewards would be an additional incentive. There's a few questions regarding how performance is actually measured, is it going to be per job for example? and I would not compare someone who solo-queued against a pre-made group. Who knows- it might end up initially being "you are in the bottom "x" players and/or "you didn't contribute, sorry, no reward for you". I have seen a similar system when a certain number of players who didn't do a certain % of damage as compared to other players get nothing and definitely was an incentive.

Regarding the premade. Yes, I see some players being demoralized. However I also see some players simply giving up and literally not using any of their skills at the first death. That's not a "premade issue".

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Agree with all this. Specifically, I suspect defining criteria (modified for job, queue status) for player contribution is sufficiently complex to make it a non-starter for SE. Maybe a better approach is simply to auto-kick anyone who doesn't provide any keyboard/controller input for 20 seconds or something.

Not even surprised , at this point people who cared to do PVP, gave up on it, and those who did just go in for the XP and don't care anymore, with every update and change they make things are worse and worse... Shatter update is bad, they removed maps for no reason, fixed maps that had no major problems and made it worse, they balance the game for Crystal Conflict, do a bad job at it, and this makes Frontline an unplayable mess. I don't even know why people still defend this, if they don't start to balance the 2 mods separately, there won't be even a minute when PVP is good, the problem comes from everywhere, how jobs work, the massive amount of HP and defense mele and tanks have, Elixirs and Guard makes the entire PVP experience bad, how the maps are designed, and so far all of Frontline maps are unfair to the unlucky team, they don't think about more than 5people when they change anything with a job. The only reason groups can destroy everyone if they make a party is because the entire thing is a mess. I don't see how PVP can be fun when some jobs can push you to 0 HP from 100 in seconds... meanwhile other jobs are so weak, tanks and meles literary just go the other way when they saw them , and don't even care if you hit them... So i'm not surprised people just don't do anything, there is no point.

"So i'm not surprised people just don't do anything, there is no point."

No one *has* to click on the FL queue button. It's not mandatory. But once they do- they have agreed to participate. If they no longer feel that it's worth their time, which is always their right, then they should leave if its's still within the replacement time- or suck it up for the few minutes that it lasts, and , the "don't do anything" option? OK, time to use the 's" word finally- yes "selfish". That's selfish, don't treat the other people who queued like NPCs. Just do your best for the few minutes that it lasts.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

Just do your best for the few minutes that it lasts.

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I upvoted your comment, though, what are you gonna do if they don't? Are you really taking your time of your day to file a report because of griefing PvP frontline, full knowing a GM probably wont do anything about it unless there is chat proof, where the player admits it.

Some player enjoy standing at a node for its full duration even if all the fighting happens on the the other sight of the map, even if everyone leads the team elsewhere, even if they don't move they will 100% lose the game in the next minute. They will guard it and will have sub 0-50k damage in 15min. If you wonder what they are doing, you will get called out for killing their "fun afk, I am here just for exp, chill bro" - vibe, and if you are really lucky the guy and his 3 friends will kick you right before the frontline matches ends.

Maybe there needs to be done a change to the XP reward for frontline, so there will be a higher daily reward for winning. While it being reduced compared to the current rate, for 2nd and 3rd place.