“non-essential” premium content, does SE want this kind of reputation if it continue?

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Well there are always people that go to rather extreme lengths like having multiple paid accounts to get an advantage.
Paying a 1.4€/mo is a considerably smaller investment to gain an advantage, subsequently more people use it and it has more of an impact.

I'd guess that's the main reason why people feel that way.

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Yeah, I generally agree (though, without things like retainers, I'm guessing multiple service accounts wouldn't be quite as extreme/unusual). I think it's about the perception of the game trying to "up-sell" you. The OP in this thread talks about the game having "this kind of reputation" and, when you think about it, it's less because "it is possible to pay more and gain an advantage over others" (which arguably it always would be, in some form or fashion), but because "the game entices you to pay more for things that could otherwise be included in the base subscription price." When you unpack that way, it really comes down to just a few options:

a) Believing that the amount we're paying for the game + subscription is "already enough" and that having these add-ons is purely due to greed, not any form of necessity.

b) Believing that, if the amount we're paying isn't enough to cover costs anymore, it would feel more fair to just raise the price for everyone universally rather than having an add-on model that gives people "advantages" if they pay more.

c) Believing that, either way, it seems SE PR's focus has shifted too much towards upselling rather than adding features in the base subscription. (Part of this could just be an overall lament about the way the industry has gone over the years too.)


Each of these points could certainly be debated on their merits (they have some obvious logical flaws), but I think it's a lot more about perception than reality. There's probably an awful lot of people who choose subscription games hoping to avoid the "constant upsell" tactics of F2P, and so seeing that also in subscription games now (where "I thought the point of a subscription was to try to avoid having to do that") is, at least, discouraging.


That said...

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

SE is meeting demand and lets face it us lazy people would rather pay than be more organized -.-/

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Honestly, this is kind of true. For the most part, market/ventures aside, retainers are a "packrat penalty". And these are definitely the type of people who will be able to rationalize spending a little extra money to not have to go through the work of pruning their inventory all the time, but also begrudge it. People who are more organized and diligent in managing their inventory really don't need the extra space. So actually, it's exactly like storage facilities in real life -- you have too much stuff to fit in your house/apartment, so you can rent storage space elsewhere, and you know you could just go through that stuff and get rid of it... but it's easier to pay...

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

See they do listen and respond.

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Just a forum CM, wouldn't get my hopes up.
DEVs are extremely rarely posting in the forums directly, mostly because if every DEV did that you'd get chaos and misinformation. WoWs DEVs tried that and it didn't work because not all DEVs are always on the same page.

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Originally Posted by polyphonica

There's probably an awful lot of people who choose subscription games hoping to avoid the "constant upsell" tactics of F2P, and so seeing that also in subscription games now (where "I thought the point of a subscription was to try to avoid having to do that") is, at least, discouraging.

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Pretty much my stance. But yeah, supply and demand. If there are idiots that buy it, the market will bring forth greedy people that sell it

Personally, I rather prune than pay extra. Even on the glamor front, there is a lot I have lying around that I'll never really need.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Pretty much my stance. But yeah, supply and demand. If there are idiots that buy it, the market will bring forth greedy people that sell it

Personally, I rather prune than pay extra. Even on the glamor front, there is a lot I have lying around that I'll never really need.

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I think it's great you're able to prune. Takes some discipline :)

I'm not sure though why the need to call others idiots just because their buying habits are different. You view a sub as a buffet; everything should be included in the cost. Some others (myself included) view a sub as a set meal; it covers a base offering and extras cost more.

Buffets also used to cost less 15 years ago. If a decent buffet today charged 2004 prices and had an option to pay more for free-flow salad or Alaskan snow crab, I wouldn't begrudge them for that in isolation.

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Originally Posted by Maleficent

You view a sub as a buffet; everything should be included in the cost. Some others (myself included) view a sub as a set meal; it covers a base offering and extras cost more.

Buffets also used to cost less 15 years ago. If a decent buffet today charged 2004 prices and had an option to pay more for free-flow salad or Alaskan snow crab, I wouldn't begrudge them for that in isolation.

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That's actually a very good analogy. I think the way companies like SE view it is that there's elasticity in what people are willing/able to pay for the game (not to mention different global market realities), so rather than just raise the price of the "buffet" for everyone universally, the "set meal + add-ons" method ties the increase to those who "use more" by some measure. They would probably argue that this approach is "more fair" than charging everyone more for things that most people won't need.

That being said... I've often wondered if they should consider adding a "premium" subscription plan, for say just under double the current Standard plan, that is the "unlimited meal deal" -- full retainers, premium app, expanded saddlebag, etc. Sure this works out to be a bit less than people who would be maxing out all the add-ons now, but some people below that might be willing to jump up to this tier just to not have to worry about the add-ons anymore. I suppose the downside to this is that it makes the "increase" more visible to people, rather than the à-la-carte add-on system they have now.

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Originally Posted by Maleficent

I think it's great you're able to prune. Takes some discipline :)

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Well my ability to prune correlates inversely with the amount of pretty dresses SE puts out, so it's only a matter of time until I run out of space. :D
Luckily, most of what they released in the recent past was butt ugly (YMMV). That goes for 95% of the mogstation gear too.

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Originally Posted by Maleficent

I'm not sure though why the need to call others idiots just because their buying habits are different

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It was more of a general statement, really and not directly linked to the retainers. There are lots of really whacky products out there that sane people would never dream of buying, yet apparently there are enough idiots to make it profitable to produce and sell.

Most easily seen in "high end" snake oil autosuggestion audiophile products. 450€ 1m long power cable anyone? :D

As for the buffet: I am okay with cosmetics sold for RL cash, as long as I see enough effort in the ingame stuff.
Blizzard overdid it once in WoD: pretty mounts in the cash shop, while ingame it was generic wolf #5854.

What I cannot and would never accept is direct player power being sold that way. Thankfully, so far SE steers clear of that.

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

They would sell the blue mage job stone on the mogstation and these people would still defend it and pretend it's an OPTIONAL job, there's no point trying to reason them.

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And here we go with a unreasonable post. Exaggeration doesn't make the complains about the mogstation more valid.

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

They would sell the blue mage job stone on the mogstation and these people would still defend it and pretend it's an OPTIONAL job, there's no point trying to reason them.

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Sorry this is not Blizzard, ( example; Diablo III ). I doubt they will be that dumb and greedy. If anything people suggesting that option, that they are willing to pay for it, then it would probably trigger such a reaction. Also keep in mind We are comparing glamour, storage, things that are requested by players as an option or improvements. If anything players are to blame for cash shops.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

And here we go with a unreasonable post. Exaggeration doesn't make the complains about the mogstation more valid.

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Honestly, I don't see it as much of an exaggeration. I highly doubt SE would ever go this route, but if they did, they would still have people supporting the decision. But lets say they do end up adding a new job in the Mogstation - the common defenses would still hold: It's just optional. It's not P2W. They already release plenty of jobs in-game, no big deal if they add one via Mogstation. It will help bring in revenue for the business.

The point wasn't "omg, SE is going to add jobs next to the mogstation!" but more "people will defend anything".

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Honestly, I don't see it as much of an exaggeration. I highly doubt SE would ever go this route, but if they did, they would still have people supporting the decision. But lets say they do end up adding a new job in the Mogstation - the common defenses would still hold: It's just optional. It's not P2W. They already release plenty of jobs in-game, no big deal if they add one via Mogstation. It will help bring in revenue for the business.

The point wasn't "omg, SE is going to add jobs next to the mogstation!" but more "people will defend anything".

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Hopefully does not come to that, I mean it would need to fit in Lore Wise, well hopefully in the upcoming FanFest this question comes up. -.-

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Honestly, I don't see it as much of an exaggeration. I highly doubt SE would ever go this route, but if they did, they would still have people supporting the decision. But lets say they do end up adding a new job in the Mogstation - the common defenses would still hold: It's just optional. It's not P2W. They already release plenty of jobs in-game, no big deal if they add one via Mogstation. It will help bring in revenue for the business.

The point wasn't "omg, SE is going to add jobs next to the mogstation!" but more "people will defend anything".

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Oh come on. Classes are something completly different than glamour, mounts and emotes, classes are essential things of game content. How does no one unerstand the difference?

And i don't defend everything, i just don't give a **** about the stuff in the mogstation as long as its nothing whats essential to the game like it is in almost every f2p shop. If people want to get everything for free in a game thats their thing but they don't have to start insulting people who have another oppinion and see a bit clearer.