Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

Mercy stroke is quite usefull. Why not take the extra amount of damage when a mob is under 20%? In fights like Twintania you will use mercy stroke a large number of times, with adds, conflags and last but not least twintania herself. You are actually gimping your DPS by not choosing that skill. Your damage won't go over the top, but it is a off GCD skill which boosts your actual dps, so why not? Don't use it as a way to heal yourself, use it as a finisher on things for extra dps.

I don't see any reason to not keep it.

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Originally Posted by Apaulcalypse

How important is mercy stroke? I do some research and people say it's worthless others say your gimping yourself by not having it.

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As Arland said above it can be quite good, but it depends on the fight. On something like Titan, T4 or T5 it can be excellent since you have the opportunity to use it multiple times and it can be a nice boost to bursting down an add, conflag, or jail/heart. There have been times I've used 4-5 Mercy Strokes on any of these fights. Over an entire fight it won't equate to a huge amount of potency output, but when you really need to burn something quickly it can be a nice little boost, and all of those fights have the opportunity for multiple uses.

On most boss fights, you'll be lucky to use Mercy Stroke more than once. Yeah sure, it's high potency and off the GCD, but taking up an entire cross skill slot for what is most likely ONE attack during a fight, two if you're lucky? Eh, I rather put Mantra in there if you got it. Yeah yeah, Mantra cross skill is pretty underwhelming at 5%. But it's a group buff, can be used on the entire party in AOE gather situations and/or used on cooldown asap which will be always useful for healers since as melee DPS, you will almost always be right next to the main/off tank.

Thanks for the comments everyone.

I like the guide, well composed but somehow I have my own preferences because it strictly depends on the situation we are in. I can't really explain but there are times when the ideal rotation cannot be used.

1) Regarding to Mercy stroke:
Thinking about the 5 cross skills you can use, Fracture, Foresight, Mercy Stroke, Bloodbath, Internal Release, Second Wind, Featherfoot and Mantra are the ones I feel most useful for a dragoon.

If I am given a choice to deliver full DPS, Fracture(100 potency with 20 potency/3s over duration for 18 seconds = 220 potency), Mercy Stroke (200 potency - only when below 20%), Internal Release is a must.

However thinking about Titan HM, BC(especially turn 4), Survival is still essential for a dragoon. Thus I decided to pick Fracture(which does more damage than Mercy and can be used anytime), IR, Second Wind, Foresight and Mantra(to help boost tanker's healing and my own second wind). Why I did not choose Mercy stroke, because its only 200 potency with a 90s CD and only able to cast when below 20%. I prefer to utilize a cross skill that can be usable at any time needed and boosts survival.

2) Regarding the rotation
Nice calculation on the rotation, but what if you meet bosses where the tankers practically cannot stand at one spot or switch tanking is needed, you going to have the boss facing in different directions in a nick of time? And what if the boss got agro'ed accidentally by a range/healer. This kind of situation, are you still going to try your very best to keep this rotation up at all time?

Are you willing to keep casting HT HT HT HT until it hits the damage boost to start the rotation? I feel its a very big waste of DPS that time. You might as well if you need the boost of damage, go for B4B first, then FT VT TT for first burst till the boss is at a stable position.


3) HT or Disembowel?

If you have 2 bards in your group, Disembowel can practically assist to boost their piercing damage onto the debuffed target by 15%. Will you still try to focus on getting HT on first or help the team quick with a Disembowel so that we can DPS the boss down faster? My preference is go for Disembowel ASAP. The solo 10% HT boost is nothing compared to 3 players having a quick boost of 15% while there is the opportunity to cast it.


4) My starting rotation if the boss stands at a stable spot.

HT --> B4B --> ID --> Disem --> CT --> Phletom --> IR --> TT --> Power Surge --> VT --> Life Surge --> TT --> Jump and then its just nice that HT and B4B buff ends to deal this rotation. Am not really good at maths but as I know I managed to give the boss 2 DOTS skill, with FT (1k+ damage crit ) with Jump (chance of another 1k+ damage crit) this starting rotation was a great help to me. In condition the player is able to non-stop clicking because time is very short for the HT and B4B buff.

Why I did this rotation?

HT is a GCD skill, there will be the usual GCD timer. I don't like to see my character standing idle just to wait to cast ID. So I went for B4B.

Once ID is casted, I realized my other GCD skill is already ready. The casting animation for ID, Disem, CT is long enough that you can cast the next GCD skill consecutively.

After Phletom, you realized that there is a short pause, use a non-GCD buff Internal Release for this is the right time. You have B4B, HT buff on and Disem on boss ready for a big blast. Then go TT, and without waiting for GCD timer, go Power Surge. Then VT, Life Surge, FT (BAM 1k+ damage with my current gear setup). And without wasting any second after FT, press the Jump (non-GCD skill, still buffed with B4B, IR, HT and Disem) BAM for another 1k+ crit damage if hit.


5) After Jump,

Use Fracture --> Leg Sweep --> HT --> Dragondive --> ID --> Disem and .....

Just wish to share my starting rotation to everyone :) Hope it helps.

WARNING: you might agro the boss by accident, and you may not wanna include Spineshatter or Leg Sweep for Ifrit boss HM.

hey guys, i had a question about use of Life Surge

because of the whole DoT "snapshot" system that xiv has - isn't life surge best used on a dmg boosted chaos thrust (assuming all ticks) instead of a full thrust?

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Originally Posted by TheHomieData

hey guys, i had a question about use of Life Surge

because of the whole DoT "snapshot" system that xiv has - isn't life surge best used on a dmg boosted chaos thrust (assuming all ticks) instead of a full thrust?

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What I understand about Life Surge is, your next hit will be a guaranteed critical. And I believe its only one hit critical which means the CT strike is a crit but not the DoT. Probably you can test it out on a level 50 mob and see the bleed effect :)

Life Surge won't let your Chaos Thrust DoT's crit. Internal Release on the other hand is able to buff the chance of a DoT crit.
Use Life Surge always right before your Full Thrust.

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Originally Posted by SilverRhythm

Nice calculation on the rotation, but what if you meet bosses where the tankers practically cannot stand at one spot or switch tanking is needed, you going to have the boss facing in different directions in a nick of time? And what if the boss got agro'ed accidentally by a range/healer. This kind of situation, are you still going to try your very best to keep this rotation up at all time?

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This is a skill question and therefore has a skill answer: if you're good, you won't spend a half dozen GCDs trying to get your HT off. The better you are, the more you will minimize missed flanks due to boss casting / aggro failure.

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4) My starting rotation if the boss stands at a stable spot.

HT --> B4B --> ID --> Disem --> CT --> Phletom --> IR --> TT --> Power Surge --> VT --> Life Surge --> TT --> Jump and then its just nice that HT and B4B buff ends to deal this rotation. Am not really good at maths but as I know I managed to give the boss 2 DOTS skill, with FT (1k+ damage crit ) with Jump (chance of another 1k+ damage crit) this starting rotation was a great help to me. In condition the player is able to non-stop clicking because time is very short for the HT and B4B buff.

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With regards to your opening rotation, it's the same one as Easymodes in the op, although your timing of ogcds is off. His opener is a few pages back but it's somthing like:

Ht-bfb-id-ir-dis-sweep-ct-ps-phleb-jump-tt-ssd-vt-ls-ft-dfd

Only small detail I see wrong with yours is that ir crit chance is "wasted" by using life surge when it's up

So this is the rotation I was trying to use, including Off globals.

HT - LS - Fr - BFB - phlb - IR - ID - DB - CT - TT - PS - VT - LS - FT - Jump - HT - Fr - Phlb - TT - VT - FT - ID - DB - CT*

When I get to the 2nd CT in the rotation, I still have about 2-3 seconds left on the dot. This is on a training dummy, so ideal conditions. My GCD is at 2.42 and my skill speed is at 424.

Anyone else having this problem when you would clip the CT? If I add anything in or wait on the CT I risk not using it with the HT buff up.

Shouldn't have any issues with that, I don't think at least. you cant always put another jump after the first CT though.

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Originally Posted by Vegito

So this is the rotation I was trying to use, including Off globals.

HT - LS - Fr - BFB - phlb - IR - ID - DB - CT - TT - PS - VT - LS - FT - Jump - HT - Fr - Phlb - TT - VT - FT - ID - DB - CT*

When I get to the 2nd CT in the rotation, I still have about 2-3 seconds left on the dot. This is on a training dummy, so ideal conditions. My GCD is at 2.42 and my skill speed is at 424.

Anyone else having this problem when you would clip the CT? If I add anything in or wait on the CT I risk not using it with the HT buff up.

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If you're at the point where that is becoming a consistent problem then just switch to one of the rotations in the guide designed to avoid CT clipping

Wow I'm bad, can't believe I missed that section in the read ><. Thanks for pointing it out.

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Originally Posted by TheHomieData

hey guys, i had a question about use of Life Surge

because of the whole DoT "snapshot" system that xiv has - isn't life surge best used on a dmg boosted chaos thrust (assuming all ticks) instead of a full thrust?

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Life surge is a really awesome ability as it has strong offensive and strong offensive capability. Unfortunately, it will not increase the ticks of your chaos thrust. It is best used offensively with Full Thrust and Blood for Blood up. Using your dots w/ BfB however will increase their damage by 30% and they can be activated at the start and refreshed efficiently near the end of blood for blood. lots of damage. I hope this answers your question fully

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Originally Posted by TheHomieData

hey guys, i had a question about use of Life Surge

because of the whole DoT "snapshot" system that xiv has - isn't life surge best used on a dmg boosted chaos thrust (assuming all ticks) instead of a full thrust?

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Just did the test earlier, yeah CT with Life Surge only affects on the CT strike but not the DoT.

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Originally Posted by Sir_Maxwell

With regards to your opening rotation, it's the same one as Easymodes in the op, although your timing of ogcds is off. His opener is a few pages back but it's somthing like:

Ht-bfb-id-ir-dis-sweep-ct-ps-phleb-jump-tt-ssd-vt-ls-ft-dfd

Only small detail I see wrong with yours is that ir crit chance is "wasted" by using life surge when it's up

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True, indeed I also am trying to also adjust the placement of IR. The above rotation you gave is reasonable based on the placement of the IR. Probably I will give it a shot today.

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Originally Posted by Arland

Your damage won't go over the top, but it is a off GCD skill which boosts your actual dps, so why not?

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WHAT?!? It is???? Holy shit I have to start using it LOL.

Oh 90s cd... excitement killed.

90s cd + only can be used when target has less than 30% health left. So that means on most endgame bosses, you'll get to use it twice IF you're lucky. I mean yeah, sure, if you're being laser focused anal on picking abilities that will only boost your damage, yeah, Mercy Stroke fits that bill, technically. But I personally think it's pretty underwhelming and ultimately meaningless in 99% of situations. If you're raid group is wiping constantly and you're telling me 1 or 2 Mercy Strokes would've changed the outcome of it, there's much better ways to try to find ways to improve your group's performance than worrying about Mercy Stroke.

My personal take is, I'd rather have Mantra there. Now now, I know this is an unpopular opinion here (partly because I think no one likes the thought of leveling MNK to 42 to get this one ability, hell, I didn't really want to honestly lol). Yes, it is pretty mediocre without the MNK trait. Yes, it's an insanely high level requirement to get. Yes, it is totally NOT NECESSARY to get, unless your group is trying to min/max your group utility. These are all true.

I still think its benefits outweigh an attack you'll do once, maybe twice during a boss fight.

Our Coil group has a MNK, me as DRG, along with 2 BRDS, both which also have Mantra. Between the four of us, we cycle through our Mantra after each other, at 15 seconds each with a 2 min cooldown, that means every 2 minutes, for 1 minute, or half the time, the entire raid group is getting healed for 5% more, 20% more when the MNK does his. It's a small bonus, but it adds up over time and our healers have said for a fact, it's made raiding way easier since me and the two BRDs got Mantra recently.

Again, totally not necessary. You can beat Turn 5 coil and never pick up Mantra. But it's not about figuring out what's needed in an absolute sense, because neither Mercy Stroke nor Mantra fit that bill. It's what gives the most benefit. And imho Mantra's utility benefit > Mercy Stroke's DPS benefit by quite a fair margin.

However if you dread leveling up a MNK to 42 just to get this, then don't, trust me, you don't need it, I only did it because I'm crazy like that. ;)

I like how you're citing endgame bosses and Mercy Stroke, without observing that Mercy Stroke can be used a half dozen times in T5 and T4 (nevermind T2), particularly on strict add DPS checks like conflags.

Bottom line: replace Bloodbath or Fracture with Mantra, not Mercy Stroke. Bloodbath is only relevant on T4 when AOE'ing adds, or for long, sustained damage intake like bigADS on T2.

And I like how you're ignoring the point I made that neither is necessary, and this especially applies to Mercy Stroke. Great, it can be used a bunch of times in Coil. Totally never needed to and our group hasn't had any problems there.

My point is which is more useful in terms of Mantra's utility vs Mercy Stroke's added damage, and I still stand by Mantra, because at least in our group, in Coil Turn 4 and 5, it's never the DPS that's a problem. It's tanks and healers getting overwhelmed by a bad string of crits, and between Mantra and Mercy Stroke, one of these can help, the other can't.

Your point about replacing Bloodbath, now that one, maybe I can see it here. But you know what, in the end, I still place Bloodbath's UTILITY over Mercy Stroke's once a while damage. If I eat some damage, healers already know not to even bother worrying about me if the damage is moderate, Life Surge, Second Wind, Bloodbath takes care bringing me back to full most of the time. And if not, then guess what, there's a 50% chance I'm under the effect of Mantra and one throwaway heal is enough to take me back to full. What does this mean? Means the healers can not worry about it and just stay focused on healing tanks and other emergency matters. Between this and an extra attack every 90 seconds, yeah, I think this is worth more. You do realize how little damage in the grand scheme of things Mercy Stroke is adding to any individual fight right? You're not just trolling, you are aware right?

Hey, great work on this forum, really enjoyed your work so far into it, but no need to get so apprehensive just because someone is offering a differing opinion than you, though you've acted in the same petulant manner against even Ayvar, so I guess I can't say I'm really that surprised. It's a different opinion, and considering the two choices are not competing in an empirical, direct manner against each other (for instance, it's not one damage attack vs another or one utility skill vs another), it's down to preference and playstyle, and I was merely expressing MY preference and citing points to support it. But apparently it seems like everyone in the world has to agree with you.

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Originally Posted by Bossmoney

And I like how you're ignoring the point I made that neither is necessary,

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I ignored it because it was accurate.

What I did not ignore was this:

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90s cd + only can be used when target has less than 30% health left. So that means on most endgame bosses, you'll get to use it twice IF you're lucky.

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This is false. L2type or l2r your own posts. Twice if you're lucky? Twice if you're lucky on Garuda.

Endgame bosses? You mean Titan where you can use it 4-5 times? ADS2 when you can use it 4 times? T4 where you can use it 4 times? Twintania where you can use it 5 times? Including strict DPS checks on short conflags?

Damn man lots of people getting really lucky.

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My point is

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Your point doesn't match your words.

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you've acted in the same petulant

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If I were acting in a petulant manner, I'd make a snide remark asking why you ignored my Fracture recommendation to swap in Mantra.

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It's a different opinion,[...]I was merely expressing MY preference and citing points to support it. But apparently it seems like everyone in the world has to agree with you.

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My care meter with regards to your opinion is: ||

Next time cite less wrong points to support your opinion while bashing an ability, or accept corrections to your points when they are made.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

If I were acting in a petulant manner, I'd make a snide remark asking why you ignored my Fracture recommendation to swap in Mantra.

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Which you totally did!

To answer that question, I don't because I prefer Ayvar's rotation that includes Fracture. I'll await while you reiterate again as you've done numerous times in the past (even when no one is asking!) why your rotation is better, I know it excites you every time you get an opportunity to do so.

It's clear I could engage with you back and forth in this to give you more opportunities to embarrass yourself more with your childish attitude, but you've done such a great job with this one post, I'll just let that speak for itself and walk away, since you've already let the world see you for what you are, a decent theorycrafting mind whose aptitude in number crunching unfortunately does not transfer to maturity level. :-)

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Originally Posted by Bossmoney

Which you totally did!

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You set the bar.

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To answer that question, I don't because I prefer Ayvar's rotation that includes Fracture. I'll await while you reiterate again as you've done numerous times in the past (even when no one is asking!) why your rotation is better, I know it excites you every time you get an opportunity to do so.

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I don't particularly care what rotation random posters use. You didn't claim that the rotation in the OP was the highest damage, so what correction needs to be made? Feel free to use whatever you want to use.

You seem to have a hard-on for me. Should I get a cease and desist order or something?

you two fracture is a staple not replaceable i feel. bloodbath, mantra, mercy stroke relevance all on what you have to do and the team you have to do it was mercy stroke i personaly feel is a a no go for the lvl its at but thats cause im not lvl a tank class to that for a move i am pretty sure you can use so lil in comparison to any other move you can put in its place it become a waste

fracture is a dps loss, and only useful if you will otherwise clip a DoT.

Btw. The entire update to warriors. Is that going to chop 30 seconds off of Mercy Stroke in general, or only to Mercy Stroke 'traited' on warrior?

No idea. If traits are awarded at the same level across all classes (I don't know), then there's a reasonable chance that Mercy Stroke will be buffed across the board since SE would have to replace another trait for MRD.

If traits are not awarded at the same levels across all classes, then I'd bet on only MRDs getting the buff via a trait.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

No idea. If traits are awarded at the same level across all classes (I don't know), then there's a reasonable chance that Mercy Stroke will be buffed across the board since SE would have to replace another trait for MRD.

If traits are not awarded at the same levels across all classes, then I'd bet on only MRDs getting the buff via a trait.

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Traits are awareded at the same levels across all classes. After level 5~ you get them every 4 levels intersparsed with your normal abilities, which are also 4 levels between each. So every 2 levels it goes Ability -> Trait -> Ability -> Trait until level 50

I see no reason why it shouldn't be buffed across the board, I'm always a big fan of executes.

Though maybe someone can explain why the animation is a hip thrust followed by a big red "axe" flying upwards :<

When we were progressing on T2, the WAR in my FC realized DRGs had Mercy Stroke and started yelling out "HIT HIM WITH YOUR PENIS" in Mumble on every miniADS at 20%. T_T

did anyone catch the jump video in the live letter? havent found it posted anywhere but i know they showed a vid and i want to know how disappointing or possibly awesome it is.

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Originally Posted by matic

did anyone catch the jump video in the live letter? havent found it posted anywhere but i know they showed a vid and i want to know how disappointing or possibly awesome it is.

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Its awesome. Much faster and it seems like you are able to move right after the hit (when there is the little backjump part of the animation).

cool thanks

All allagan gear is going to be made ilvl 95... start picking all that up, even if you have myth
haven't looked at rotation times in a while, but if Drg abilities are getting a 10% buff; will fracture still have a spot on a boss rotation? I notice my dots dropping before HT, and even missing FT's HT buff depending on how many ocd abilities I thread into a cycle. taking fracture out may help with that, wondering if anyone else has tested it lately.

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Originally Posted by Khalous

All allagan gear is going to be made ilvl 95... start picking all that up, even if you have myth
haven't looked at rotation times in a while, but if Drg abilities are getting a 10% buff; will fracture still have a spot on a boss rotation? I notice my dots dropping before HT, and even missing FT's HT buff depending on how many ocd abilities I thread into a cycle. taking fracture out may help with that, wondering if anyone else has tested it lately.

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Please be very careful in reporting changes until they are 100% confirmed. The translations from Japanese to English can get out of hand, and we are if anything the enemies of misinformation. Whether the upgrade to ilvl95 will occur on gear has yet to be confirmed. The original Japanese comment was made with regards to weapons and not to gear and so we have no concrete information either way. I would also urge the same caution with reporting "10% buffs to all Dragoon abilities!" and other such changes.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1589513

Actually I just watched the video with live translation and they said "close range dps will get 10% buff" . so that's monks too...and tbh they don't need it. Along with increased GL uptime and higher back attack dmg, they sem to be making out better than DRGs, buffwise. kinda odd.

Does anyone else want to pull their hair out because Elusive Jump is on a 180 second cooldown? Don't get me wrong I can move like anyone else but 180??? Feels very long for the class. 90-120 anyone else feeling the same about this ability?

So, anybody else laughed at yoshidas answer on the question about dragoon jumps, fuck logic, right?

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Q1: Please tell us about dragoon adjustments. Also, you mentioned that you wouldn’t be making dragoons invincible while jumping, but can you explain why this this can’t be done, when black mage has something similar, and other constant damage actions.

A1: First, regarding invincible while jumping, jumps are attack actions. Black mage and other such actions have their own effect and after a set period of time the effect wears off, and they consume an action slot. Making you invincible while jumping would enable you to become invincible while attacking so we do not have any plans to do this.

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I mean, what kind of logic is this? They can't let us have invulnerability frames (even short ones) on jumps because we would be invulnerable WHILE attacking?! So... Let us look at the BLM at Twintania Divebomb phase, he just stands there, eating 3 Divebombs for 0 damage and without knockback and what does he do while standing there? Right! He attacks the snakes!

Yeah, sure he is not invulnerable because of his attacks, but because of mana wall. This in fact is even more powerfull than any invulnerability frame jump could offer us! Even if we would be so lucky as to recieve our invulnerability frame while jumping, this would be very hard to time right and probably more dangerous than to just move out of the way.

I'm glad they change jumps, but i don't quite understand yoshidas point there. Of course, we would have invulnerability frames every 40secs at least (more in fact) but those frames would only help us to fuck up less in a movement heavy fight but they never would be reliable enough to actually use them as a means to dodge every spell/skill to an amount of 100%. (Server delay would screw us over.)

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

fracture is a dps loss, and only useful if you will otherwise clip a DoT.

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What do you mean by clip a DoT. Like when it says "Chaos Thrust has no effect"?

Sorry, new to the forums but I always have that happen to me and no clue why.