Steam payment HUGE price increase!

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The problem with steam reviews is they are not based on region, eo now there are a lot of "sub increased 3x with no warning" reviews with no explanation

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So? We had no explanation too, so why should we care to explain things in our reviews?

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Originally Posted by Nezia

So? We had no explanation too, so why should we care to explain things in our reviews?

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Better to be constructive with your criticism, without context and clarity a lot of the steam reviews I've read come off as whining. If someone came along interested in playing and noticed a ton of negative reviews without substance do you really think they'd give those reviews any worth?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The problem with steam reviews is they are not based on region, eo now there are a lot of "sub increased 3x with no warning" reviews with no explanation that wouldnt impact anyone other than those in 2 countries. The sub also only increased if you used steam, the base sub for the game did not change on the official site .

While this does suck for those effected, a lot of those reviews are misleading. Its also not the devs fault, they are not in control of the company financing.

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Exactly this!!! Which is why it seems like a hateful revenge campaign instead of being a case of making your voices heard about this (truly!) unfair event. You were treated unfairly as customers, you should make a noice about it here on the forums and contact customer service and media and everything, but a misleading revenge campaign is not a great way to go on about it.

I would just recommend to make screenshots of this topic, in case if SE will just delete the whole thread.
No thread - no problem?~

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The problem with steam reviews is they are not based on region, eo now there are a lot of "sub increased 3x with no warning" reviews with no explanation that wouldnt impact anyone other than those in 2 countries. The sub also only increased if you used steam, the base sub for the game did not change on the official site .

While this does suck for those effected, a lot of those reviews are misleading. Its also not the devs fault, they are not in control of the company financing.

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This is not a problem; it is the entire point.

Whether or not the problem currently affects you is neither here nor there; it speaks to the behavior of the company. The Devs are not separate from the company; the company contains the devs and the people who charge the money. Yoshi-p isn't your friend anymore than anyone else there is. The end goal in all cases is money.

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Originally Posted by Iorveth

I would just recommend to make screenshots of this topic, in case if SE will just delete the whole thread.
No thread - no problem?~

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Internet archives

SE deletes it? No problem. We can keep an archive of it here.

But it's not misleading at all because, as a subscription based game, SE is selling service. And people are frustrated with the service, you can't take it apart from the game if it is ruining your experience.

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Originally Posted by Furious

This is not a problem; it is the entire point.

Whether or not the problem currently affects you is neither here nor there; it speaks to the behavior of the company. The Devs are not separate from the company; the company contains the devs and the people who charge the money. Yoshi-p isn't your friend anymore than anyone else there is. The end goal in all cases is money.

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Are you one of those people that yell at the cashiers making minimum wage because of a corporate decision? Cuz in 5he end, thats about money too, except sa8d cashier has no say in the decisions.

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Originally Posted by Rofel

But it's not misleading at all because, as a subscription based game, SE is selling service. And people are frustrated with the service, you can't take it apart from the game if it is ruining your experience.

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It is somehwat misleading, the official sub price from the games account management service never changed. Only the price on a 3rd party platform, and only in 2 countries.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

It is somehwat misleading, the official sub price from the games account management service never changed. Only the price on a 3rd party platform, and only in 2 countries.

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Welp, they technically can do they same thing by adjusting Dolar to Yen at some point in time. So it somehow works to warn people about this.

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Originally Posted by Nezia

Welp, they technically can do they same thing by adjusting Dolar to Yen at some point in time. So it somehow works to warn people about this.

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And the world could end tonight at the push of a button. Fear mongering is bad.

No where else did Steam have special pricing for the games sub, only in 2 countries. It was only adjusted in those 2 countries to match the sub price IN THOSE COUNTRIES on the official site. This is nothing like them adjusting pricing everywhere. That is what is misleading.

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Originally Posted by Furious

This is not a problem; it is the entire point.

Whether or not the problem currently affects you is neither here nor there; it speaks to the behavior of the company. The Devs are not separate from the company; the company contains the devs and the people who charge the money. Yoshi-p isn't your friend anymore than anyone else there is. The end goal in all cases is money.

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You sir deserve a cookie.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Are you one of those people that yell at the cashiers making minimum wage because of a corporate decision? Cuz in 5he end, thats about money too, except sa8d cashier has no say in the decisions.

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Of course not; that analogy is ridiculous and non-sequitur.

If you leave a negative review based on price on a supermarket's website that describes the prices as being far too high, or that the practice of pricing at the supermarket was somehow unethical, does anyone think that review is somehow demonising of the cashiers or the people producing the goods? Of course not.

The reviews aren't somehow only in the purview of the playing of the game; the experience of the game consists not only of the gameplay, but also of the difficulty of getting to that point, the reasonability of the price point, and anything else relevant to that particular game.

Negative reviews of a product based on unreasonable price or unethical practice are entirely warranted and reasonable. Nobody is saying "Yoshi-p set the price to this", however Yoshi-P is a member of the company, for better or worse. If the price point has changed to a point where it has become unreasonable for the content, it is our right as consumers to inform potential customers of that fact; that is why feedback systems exist.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Are you one of those people that yell at the cashiers making minimum wage because of a corporate decision? Cuz in 5he end, thats about money too, except sa8d cashier has no say in the decisions.



It is somehwat misleading, the official sub price from the games account management service never changed. Only the price on a 3rd party platform, and only in 2 countries.

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Let me reinterpret what these two were trying to say:

We're warning people worldwide of the poor PR choices the company is making, not because of the grudge we hold against SE, but because we're the only ones affected so far . Since you're probably not affected at all by this change, this doesn't really seem all that bad to you. But I bet that most people telling us to calm down and stop ruining the game's image will be the ones voicing their dissatisfaction should SE decide and make another unreasonable move without proper warning beforehand.

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It is somehwat misleading, the official sub price from the games account management service never changed. Only the price on a 3rd party platform, and only in 2 countries.

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And its exactly on this same 3rd party platform where those reviews are being posted.

Also, it doesnt matter if its only 2 countries. SE markets and sells the game officialy in here, and yet the closest thing to a localised support we've got is on Steam. Heck, having their single attempt to clarify the matter being only ONE forum post lost among hundreds, with no prior announcements, shows how much the service/support gotta improve.

Edit: thanks to the people helping me making my point clear. English naturaly isnt my first langage and typing on mobile isnt helping lmao.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

It is somehwat misleading, the official sub price from the games account management service never changed. Only the price on a 3rd party platform, and only in 2 countries.

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It's a price change nevertheless. Because those two affected countries had a regional price up until now and SE removed it completely without a single warning or prior explanation. It was so sudden people at first thought it was just a bug.
And honestly there's no saying a company that does something like that without saying a word won't do it again in the future. So I understand your worries about the reviews being misleading, but a price change is a price change. It might not have affected you, but it was an unprofessional move and people are complaining about it in their reviews.

And this could all have been avoided if SE had at least made an official note about it.

No mans sky was an indie game. A d focus of tje problem was USA that
Has regulations and third party organizations who avail players.

As far i know your only leverage was the review thing that was used as a protest mensurae but the damage is done. Cant get worse unless USA,JP or UK take the case and ist unlikely to Happen.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

No where else did Steam have special pricing for the games sub, only in 2 countries. It was only adjusted in those 2 countries to match the sub price IN THOSE COUNTRIES on the official site. This is nothing like them adjusting pricing everywhere. That is what is misleading.

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Oh, silly me, and here I thought that misleading was selling an expansion on regional price and then one month later remove the regional price option.

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Originally Posted by Indefiinable

I think I am being a bit thick
Let me just clarify. The new price now falls in line with the price in other countriesbut that is a huge problem because the average disposable income in Brazil is much lower?

But that is how exchange rates work isn't it? They look at a countries average income, levels of unemployment, cost of living, GDP and many many other economic factors and say OK my 1 USD is the relative value of your 3.15 BRL.

So while I appreciate that an anoucement would have been courteous if not required by the ToS I must be missing something if this has suddenly become totally unaffordable when the relative value in real terms is now the same as in every other country

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That is not how things work. First it depends how much currency the country has in circulation. After that it depends on the county's ability to buy and sell things (thus making a demand for the currency) Say the USA government decides to print 1 duotrigintillion (yes I looked it up) USD, you really think the USD currency exchange rates would still be favorable? So no you can't base it on exchange rates alone.

Previously, the game caused only positive emotions, but after I sat on the forum for a couple of days, I saw the face of the community - it's toxic and stuffy people. Your yesterday's brothers in arms faced a problem. Players are waiting for answers from SE, but only get dirt in comments from gloating people. Somebody bring an oxygen mask.

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Originally Posted by Rofel

"If Steam sells something for a loss, then it's Steam that loses money."

It was said that SE determines the pricing over Steam, they were not making it cheaper for the sake of it.

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Originally Posted by DoppelShifter

Well, here's the thing... said prices are controlled by the game's publisher, not Valve. Square Enix dictates the prices for Brazil and Russia, and then ignored them for 5 years with no change. Might have been an oversight, but this oversight was what brought the Russian and Brazilian player base we have here.

We hope that this overall shady behavior serves as a justification for Valve to weight in just like they did in NMS and Arkham Knight and allow for refunds; or at least poke Square Enix saying "Yo folks, you have an impending PR nightmare here on this side. Either authorize the refunds or do something about it".

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I made my post fully aware of this. You did not understand what I was alluring to. Steam is simply a middle man providing another entry to a service. Middle men usually either get cuts from the business or tack on their own fee for the service. This does not change the fact that Steam Wallet is a Steam process. SE might set the prices for their own goods, but that does not stop Steam from asking for their services. This already happened recently in Australia with Steam's Goods and Services tax.

I'm not saying there's no possible faulting of SE, but I am trying to give you reason to pause and think on other reasons this may be happening. Also, I gave an example of why this may have come to SE's attention in the form of a "legit and SE supported" Mogstation that was not being run directly from Square Enix. SE doesn't like people messing with their income. No business does, and like every business, they'll seek ways to make that money back. This could be their answer.

I don't know. It's just a theory.

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Originally Posted by Katsuragi_

I'm not sure what kind of contract they might have specifically with each other, but generally the way Steam works is that Valve just charges a percentage of what the developer makes.

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The only articles I can find are the unfair price discrepancies across the globe over Steam pricing (a 3 year old article) and another article on Steam giving developers the tools to opt into sales on Steam on their own schedule, rather than being forced into some Steam schedule. The latter which does not apply to this situation as it's not a sale, but the first article certainly applies. Worth reading.

In the very least, this is not a new issue, only newly knocking on FFXIV's door.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The problem with steam reviews is they are not based on region, eo now there are a lot of "sub increased 3x with no warning" reviews with no explanation that wouldnt impact anyone other than those in 2 countries. The sub also only increased if you used steam, the base sub for the game did not change on the official site .

While this does suck for those effected, a lot of those reviews are misleading. Its also not the devs fault, they are not in control of the company financing.

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How are those reviews misleading? Have you at least read them or are you like those people who see negative rates and move on to another game?

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Originally Posted by Princess_Momoka

That is not how things work. First it depends how much currency the country has in circulation. After that it depends on the county's ability to buy and sell things (thus making a demand for the currency) Say the USA government decides to print 1 duotrigintillion (yes I looked it up) USD, you really think the USD currency exchange rates would still be favorable? So no you can't base it on exchange rates alone.

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Meh thought I quote myself since it is last post on the page.
http://www.economist.com/content/big-mac-index
I went to look at this rq and in January it said Brazil was slightly overvalued in the exchange rate and now it is significantly undervalued. This means they went paying a bit less then what SE could ask for, to overpaying by a significant amount, if we base it on PPP. Thus I can definitely see why this thread was made, assuming if SE is going by exchange rates alone and keep adjusting the cost based off it.

Russia since July 2014 though, wow >< Basically the dollar exchange rate got really favorable for the USD in the last 3-4 years or so vs everywhere.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

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SE had full control over prices all this time. Some items in mog shop were sold at 100% of their value, jump portions and transfers for example. So up until the exact month since SB release they were perfectly fine with our payment model. It's not life RUB suddenly dropped in price. It happened years ago. But for some reason, only after we bought new expansion and played it for a month, SE suddenly realised that RUB exchange rate has dropped. I'm sorry I don't believe in coincidences.

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Originally Posted by EriShvakh

SE had full control over prices all this time. Some items in mog shop were sold at 100% of their value, jump portions and transfers for example. So up until the exact month since SB release they were perfectly fine with our payment model. It's not life RUB suddenly dropped in price. It happened years ago. But for some reason, only after we bought new expansion and played it for a month, SE suddenly realised that RUB exchange rate has dropped. I'm sorry I don't believe in coincidences.

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Kindly read the whole post. Thank you.

EDIT:

I'll just say it because apparently reading is hard or simply cherry picking points on my post.

BR and RU players abused the reduced rates on Steam Wallet to buy Mogstation items. They then re-sold the items for profit (I want to say I remember seeing Sleipnir being sold for around $15.00 compared to $24.00 from the store directly). This was roughly 1 month before Stormblood. Investigations to find the reason why takes time. While it has been apparently made impossible to buy items from the Mogstation through Steam (not in that area nor do I use Steam for FFXIV so I do not know the validity of this claim), this lends causation.

So no, it's not a coincidence at all, nor have I tried saying that at all.

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Originally Posted by Princess_Momoka

Russia since July 2014 though, wow >< Basically the dollar exchange rate got really favorable for them in the last 3-4 years or so vs everywhere.

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It's the other way around. It got extremely unfavourable. We went from 30rub to 55rub per dollar, while salaries remained the same. So everything got 2 times more expensive.

well I can understand the price increase in steam, but wait, you could say, hey guys freebies ended we raise prices, but ... we understand that a one-time increase in payment by 100-300% will hit hard on some of our players. we apologize or something like that...

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Kindly read the whole post. Thank you.

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Ok, let's see.

There were no news about changes to steam's cut. Russian tax on digital sales got introduced a year(?) ago. RUB exchange rate is stable. Nope, sorry, I don't see a reason for a sudden change. Why they didn't change it back in 2014 when rub dropped two times in price? Why they didn't change it when tax was introduced? Why change it exactly a month after SB release? Why not on SB release? Why not before? Really makes you almonds crack, huh?

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Kindly read the whole post. Thank you.

EDIT:

I'll just say it because apparently reading is hard or simply cherry picking points on my post.

BR and RU players abused the reduced rates on Steam Wallet to buy Mogstation items. They then re-sold the items for profit. This was roughly 1 month before Stormblood. Investigations to find the reason why takes time.

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Yes, its the classic case of "this is why we can't have nice things". The majority losing good stuff because some people abuse it. The article you mentioned on your post is very interesting, but I don't think it hits straight to the point of why we are upset. Alright, the price raised, but why did they do this the first patch after the expansion, without any blog post or previous notice? This is the main reason a lot of people are upset. They spent money on the expansion they might not play now because its on a price range they might not be willing to pay. Its just too shady.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

BR and RU players abused the reduced rates on Steam Wallet to buy Mogstation items. They then re-sold the items for profit

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So there is this revolutionary solution. Like. I just came up with it. I must be a genius. But. BUT! Hear me out.

What if we increase prices for cosmetic items? Like, we're already selling Jump potions for a full price, so why not do the same thing for other items.

That way we can get more money from RU and BR, kill reselling market, and keep thousands of players from waging holy war against us!

A-MA-ZING. SE needs to hire me right now.

Yknow whats the problem with your theory, Junsei? At this point, its just speculation. Thats exactly why we need more transparency from SE about this issue.

We are fully aware of the many possible reasons to change the rate. The few FACTS we have so far are: most of the userbase from these regions are dealing with more than a little increase on how much the game costs now. The timing was terrible, people just spent money on SB and doubling the amount they have to pay monthly in order to enjoy it is baffling. The lack of communication, prior and even now, just puts salt in the wound.

We understand you like the game (we do to, believe!) but as customers, we are allowed to share our opinions and do what we can in order to be heard. I am really sorry if this subject upsets you but that lost single post isn't enough when the damage was silent done.

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Originally Posted by Katsuragi_

I'm not sure what kind of contract they might have specifically with each other, but generally the way Steam works is that Valve just charges a percentage of what the developer makes.

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Originally Posted by Drakanoth

Yes, its the classic case of "this is why we can't have nice things". The majority losing good stuff because some people abuse it. The article you mentioned on your post is very interesting, but I don't think it hits straight to the point of why we are upset. Alright, the price raised, but why did they do this the first patch after the expansion, without any blog post or previous notice? This is the main reason a lot of people are upset. They spent money on the expansion they might not play now because its on a price range they might not be willing to pay. Its just too shady.

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Hrng, the only thing I can rightly call off the top of my mind as to way you would not give notice for something like this is when you wish to prevent a response to the situation already at hand. To put it bluntly, Square Enix cannot simply issue and cease and desist, but unless they can track down the individuals and/or company and get the law involved, it becomes words. Instead, they take away the ability to purchase and stockpile these items ahead of time by simply giving no notice. Which, again, leads me to point out that the subscription price has not changed; the conversation rate on these two areas has changed.

The fact the site in question (yay for Discord history) mentions Steam and Square Enix and the price hike makes me believe that this is, indeed, an instance of people(s) abusing a system lends me to believe it may be a culprit to the situation. i don't know why the wait. I also don't know how long it took for them to find out about the site or where it was originating from. I also don't know how much the sales of story-skip potions might have affected this, which became available after early access, could have made them watch closer. Those are things only SE can answer, and I do also question the timing; it should have been done sooner, thanks to the constraints of Steam's guidelines.

Like I said, I'm not saying it's there's no fault to be had on SE. However, I'm also not saying there wasn't something out there to catch SE's ire.

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Originally Posted by EriShvakh

So there is this revolutionary solution. Like. I just came up with it. I must be a genius. But. BUT! Hear me out.

What if we increase prices for cosmetic items? Like, we're already selling Jump potions for a full price, so why not do the same thing for other items.

That way we can get more money from RU and BR, kill reselling market, and keep thousands of players from waging holy war against us!

A-MA-ZING. SE needs to hire me right now.

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A simple Google search revealed the issue of buying items through Steam Wallet can be circumvented with incognito status on a browser. You can then buy crysta, still, using the browser. The issue therein lies with the rates on Steam Wallet.

Again, I don't use Steam, Steam Wallet, nor am I in a location that could test this to see the validity of the claim. Only stating possible reasons.

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Originally Posted by Rofel

Yknow whats the problem with your theory, Junsei? At this point, its just speculation. Thats exactly why we need more transparency from SE about this issue.

We are fully aware of the many possible reasons to change the rate. The few FACTS we have so far are: most of the userbase from these regions are dealing with more than a little increase on how much the game costs now. The timing was terrible, people just spent money on SB and doubling the amount they have to pay monthly in order to enjoy it is baffling. The lack of communication, prior and even now, just puts salt in the wound.

We understand you like the game (we do to, believe!) but as customers, we are allowed to share our opinions and do what we can in order to be heard. T
I am really sorry if this subject upsets you but hat lost single post isn't enough when the damage was silent done.

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Of course it's all speculation nor am I trying to silence anyone. On the contrary, I am trying to stimulate conversation than just throwing fits. It's more enjoyable, and therapeutic, to talk and debate on the hows and whys, even if theory, than to simmer with a bunch of angry people. I hope SE does reply in a timely manner on the issue, but until then, there's no reason to continuously stir a pot.

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I am trying to stimulate conversation than just throwing fits. It's more enjoyable, and therapeutic, to talk and debate on the hows and whys, even if theory, than to simmer with a bunch of angry people.

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And I agree. Thankfuly this topic has been pretty civil for how upset people are - and with reason, or it would be locked by now. Thats why I dont agree with the part about stiring the pot. We are providing what we can of information, and thats about it since is going to deafening ears.

Now if SE could join us and provide us with something more practical than speculations about the problem when they should be thinking about a better solution, TALKING to the playerbase thats supporting the game way before the regional prices, that would be a blast for us.

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Originally Posted by EriShvakh

It's the other way around. It got extremely unfavourable. We went from 30rub to 55rub per dollar, while salaries remained the same. So everything got 2 times more expensive.

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talking about the point of view of the USD, i know that.

Well, about the whole thing with people abusing the system to sell mogstation item codes for cheaper: It could be circumvented by simply not allowing gifts to be paid for with the steam wallet or removing the regional pricing from all of the mogstation items, and leaving only the sub pricing as regional. I'm pretty sure that there wouldn't be such a uproar if only the optional items had been adjusted. And knowing that regional pricing is set per item (cause I tried to buy a jump pot when it came out and it had no regional pricing, but the broom mount I bought a few days later still had it) it shouldn't be that hard.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

A simple Google search revealed the issue of buying items through Steam Wallet can be circumvented with incognito status on a browser. You can then buy crysta, still, using the browser. The issue therein lies with the rates on Steam Wallet.

Again, I don't use Steam, Steam Wallet, nor am I in a location that could test this to see the validity of the claim. Only stating possible reasons..

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Jesus, you have literally zero idea how payment with steam work.

It's just another payment method. But on steam's end price was converted to regional price, set by SE. So prices on cosmetic items were converted to regional price without any restrictions on gifting, which allowed people to resell them.

If SE really wanted to kill reselling market all they had to do was to remove regional pricing on cosmetic items. It's that easy and they were already doing it with certain services and items.

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Originally Posted by IzumiOgata

Well, about the whole thing with people abusing the system to sell mogstation item codes for cheaper: It could be circumvented by simply not allowing gifts to be paid for with the steam wallet or removing the regional pricing from all of the mogstation items, and leaving only the sub pricing as regional. I'm pretty sure that there wouldn't be such a uproar if only the optional items had been adjusted. And knowing that regional pricing is set per item (cause I tried to buy a jump pot when it came out and it had no regional pricing, but the broom mount I bought a few days later still had it) it shouldn't be that hard.

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Exactly! World of Warcraft does that too, the other services are normal price but the monthly fee is regional price (and please include retainers on that T_T XD)

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Originally Posted by EriShvakh

Jesus, you have literally zero idea how payment with steam work.

It's just another payment method. But on steam's end price was converted to regional price, set by SE. So prices on cosmetic items were converted to regional price without any restrictions on gifting, which allowed people to resell them.

If SE really wanted to kill reselling market all they had to do was to remove regional pricing on cosmetic items. It's that easy and they were already doing it with certain services and items.

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Once it's converted to crysta, there would be no limitations. That is where the loophole lies. What you're saying is if you could continue to buy items on the Mogstation directly using Steam Wallet, simply limit those items through that method. That's why I brought up the ability to buy crysta via Steam Wallet and using that method.

Is crysta the middle man now?

Is it just the subtime price that changed for you guys? Or did mogstation optional items change too?

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Originally Posted by Rofel

Is crysta the middle man now?

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It's always been for me >_< since SE is picky about what cards it accepts for direct debit.