The growing entitlement issues of the casuals

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

The problem with that logic is that you end up with a community like WOW where people call you a noob if you don't have the rarest most powerful gear in the game and won't even invite you for endgame content.

The goal is to give the opportunity for both casual and hardcore players to experience the same thing.

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That's only because WoW has such a strong emphasis on gear. FFXI was never like that because your character and skill was the biggest factor in how good you were, not your overpowered equipment. The equipment just increased your skill but it wasn't the sole basis for how good you were. You could technically kill anything in the game just using your AF gear. Hopefully XIV will be the same.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

the beauty of it is....you dont have to

do leve NMs if you dont want to camp a world NM, they gave you that option
and the world NMs spawn quick enough for this to not be as much an issue as in past games now

At this point its not about casual vs hardcore, but about who is WILLING to spend the time to do something

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Then why even bother implementing such a boring content?

There are many other ways to implement difficult content, it does not have to be camping HNM.

You should be fighting monster, doing quest in a game. Not staring at the screen, WAITING for 3hrs.

Is "camping" the only way to "hardcore"?

I'm sure even some hardcore players dislike camping, but they "have to" do it, because it gives the best gear.

So why should a game even have such mindless, boring way of doing thing?

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Originally Posted by Tenchi

You say that, but it's not the issue here. Two people buy a gym membership one goes 3 days a week the other 5... who's going to get more out of their membership?

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They both have access to the same equipement at the gym. One will get fitter faster than the other one ^^

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Originally Posted by solracht

You mean when the quality and subscriptions of the game increased 100 fold. The fact that your dying breed was kicked off that game, just like they're going to get kicked off every MMORPG they try from now on does not mean the games are getting worse.

Either way, if you were going to bring up the way WoW's endgame worked when the cap was level 60 (like 6 years ago), don't bother. You might as well keep on mentioning HNMs to back up how a game should work. The entire raiding scene of WoW was not accessible unless you had a lot of time at level 60, just because of the nature of 40man raids.

Nice job ignoring the rest of the post too.

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I read the rest of your post. "You have to play better". Then I laughed. Hi2u Hellscream's Warsong and Strength of Wrynn. Yeah, WoW is all about challenge now. *rolls eyes*

This is why instanced content works so well in other games. It's accessible to everyone, but you add in a low drop rate. Everyone has the same chance per instance, but the Hardcore groups can go more often. Attending more often gives more rewards due to this. It even matches the gym theory.

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Originally Posted by Alexis_Arteme

Some here should probably read the warning label. I fear for society.

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Well the minority that live in their parents basement aren't really part of society to begin with, you actually have to leave the house to do that :P

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Originally Posted by Poipori

Then why even bother implementing such a boring content?

There are many other ways to implement difficult content, it does not have to be camping HNM.

You should be fighting monster, doing quest in a game. Not staring at the screen, WAITING for 3hrs.

Is "camping" the only way to "hardcore"?

I'm sure even some hardcore players dislike camping, but they "have to" do it, because it gives the best gear.

So why should a game even have such mindless, boring way of doing thing?

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Why? thats easy

BECAUSE PEOPLE WANTED IT.

Thats right, when the NMs were first announced, people were extremely concerned that there would be no world bosses to fight. It was never about spawn rates with them, just their existance in general.

In every game, some people will find certain content extremely boring, guess what, those people can skip that content!
Dont like world NMs, do the quest ones, we have BOTH, thats the beauty of how they added them and will more then likely continue to add them.


Camping isnt about hardcore or not hardcore, the whole thing behind it before was how much time it takes, Alot of the casual vs hardcore debate is about time consumption. If a NM took 3-24 hours to camp....casuals didnt have a chance. Now the timer is what, an hour? tops? and you know exactly what time he spawns in game(they have a specific time they spawn after all) so you can just show up then? Sounds like it catered to the casual crowd to me.(in a good way)

but some other things being asked for can get rediculous

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Originally Posted by Abriael

I'm amazed to see people still advocating horribly boring timesinks to weed out the competition of people that simply play less time a day than they do, as it shows how they're willing to effectively have less fun themselves in order to be able to wave around an e-peen bigger than their peers.

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QFT. That other thread completely turned into "I just want things that only I who can invest 10+hrs a day can get that most other people can't attempt to get" for nothing more than to wag their e-peen in other people's faces, and on top of that equating it to "skill".

I agree with a lot in this thread, that casual player doesn't necessarily mean a bad player. I somewhat fall in between casual and hardcore myself, (atm I just don't only play this game since there isn't too much to do currently) and have never asked to log in with all gear and levels handed to me. There is a big difference from just handing people things on a silver platter, and making content "available" for everyone to do without investing 10 hours of the day. I'm sure there are people who ask for everything given to them, but they are most likely in the minority. Just like in that other thread, the people asking for ridiculous NM spawn timers are clearly in the minority as well.

For casual players they SHOULD have access to everything the hardcore players can get, HOWEVER that does not mean they can get it as fast. I'll use a few examples. Having a drop based gear from normal mobs or NM mobs(not faction) lets say you get coins from these mobs off certain NM and random low % off normal mobs, once you collect enough you can exchange it for a good piece of gear. A player who plays more will have more chances at coins while a casually player will have chances to, they both have equal chances of getting the item, just it will take one longer then the other.

I for one consider myself a hardcore player, now I do think other hardcore players like myself who spend a lot more time on game should have better chances for getting content done or IG gear, but I also do not think if you add in for instance 24 hour spawns is fair to the casually gamer who can hardly, if at all ever have a chance to kill a mob themselves solo or with LS members. Having equal access is what we need, but as for how long it takes, that should go to the players who play more.

So essentially make everything of equal access to players, but if you induce a system where a player who plays more gets more stuff faster and/or better, then that would be a fair trade off to casually players, they can still get the same stuff, it would just take them longer.

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Originally Posted by Kazimir

I read the rest of your post. "You have to play better". Then I laughed. Hi2u Hellscream's Warsong and Strength of Wrynn. Yeah, WoW is all about challenge now. *rolls eyes*

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Not even going to argue about Warcraft's endgame strategies, which are about "when" you beat the content, with the window being smaller than in other MMORPGs, but I was talking about this:

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Originally Posted by solracht

What you don't understand is that time doesn't equal skill.

People who are better at the game than others will get things to make themselves unique. People who are both good and have more time will get more things, and faster. You're already ahead.

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I haven't seen any of you guys ask for hard content, you're either asking for time-consuming content or content that only a linkshell can access per day. Nobody is going to cater to that if they care about their game.

You'll most likely get your hard content, however. If you're good, you'll beat it. You'll get the armor to show off for being actually good. If you're bad and can't... then maybe you didn't deserve it, even if you spent your 10 daily hours trying.