Frontlines: There should not be ANY rewards for 2nd or 3rd place

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Originally Posted by Eastwall

That's Too strict, but they should reduce the process you get for losing. Like in gw2, there is a special series for ranked. Winning get 10 pips, but losing only get 3. I don't know about frontline, but for cc, l think winning is 900 and losing is 700? The reward for losing needs to be reduced to 450 at least. Same goes for frontline

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You have to realize GW2 is different game and it is a MMO that build with PvP in their concept when game is still on the drawing board
FF14 originally for PvE only and PvP is add in after release
Majority of audience is PvE originally, this is why you are seeing so many players do not respect other people's experience on Frontline
Through out almost 10 years with Frontline, only time you are seeing less afker/leecher is the time everyone want 200 wins for mount reward (Seize/Shatter/Rival Wing)

Also, people don't afk in PvE because if you failed, you have to keep trying until you bring boss down to zero and get the drop you want
Why PvP don't have same penalty system?
PvP should not be reward for participation and people need to focus on outcome.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I think if report/kick were easier and removed these players from the field semi-permanently, there'd be less motivation to find other solutions.

You're right that long term this sort of thing evens out. My primary motivation is to raise the skill floor by preventing people from playing who are basically mocking the mode and their team-mates. Plus I don't like carrying water for others.

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I carry water in pve all the time for others and I don't mind.

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Originally Posted by Valence

I carry water in pve all the time for others and I don't mind.

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Fair, but I think there's a qualitative difference between team-mates that are poor with their rotations, and those that are refusing to engage at all.

Like if you were running a roulette dungeon and someone decided it would be funny to walk through it, I imagine you'd be miffed and that they'd be kicked.

I have a better one, remove the xp from frontline, so people that come to play it are there for the mode, not for the free xp. Between that and obvious win trades, it's frustrating. Pvp has been the only content with replayability, but everytime I do a frontline, I just disconect and wonder why I'm still even bothering with a game the dev obviously don't care about. Continue to run your game like the rest of your company, right to the cliff. That's the best. At this point, is having a fast queue even worth it if the majority of the time, the game's gonna be rigged.

Honestly, I'd like the game mode more if you removed the crowd control and removed a team. 3 doesn't work. It hasn't worked. All 3 teams do is make two teams fight for 2nd place. It's absolutely moronic.

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

Honestly, I'd like the game mode more if you removed the crowd control and removed a team. 3 doesn't work. It hasn't worked. All 3 teams do is make two teams fight for 2nd place. It's absolutely moronic.

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3 team does work.
If there is a huge gap between 1st place, the 3rd place definitely will attack the 2nd.
They are not NPCs.
During this scenario, if there is no 3rd team, first place team will dominate game because of battle high.
10 years of WoW battleground already proven that

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

3 team does work.
If there is a huge gap between 1st place, the 3rd place definitely will attack the 2nd.
They are not NPCs.
During this scenario, if there is no 3rd team, first place team will dominate game because of battle high.
10 years of WoW battleground already proven that

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What happens when the 2nd place team bullies the 3rd? That's happened in multiple games for me as well. You can't say in that scenario that if it wasn't binary, it wouldn't just work how normal pvp works. The better team will always win.

You'd have a better agreement about removing Battle High, and I'm 100% on board with that. Battle High is terrible as well.

Frontlines has enough going wrong for it. It's a clown fiesta, the gametype changes daily, battle high, a mountain of crowd control and just bad attitude given the fact that it has a chat.

And you wonder why people afk through it or feed to end the game. It's just plain, not fun. It never has been. If you removed the battle pass and the tomes, I wouldn't touch it because of how god awful it is as a play mode. I can't even play CC because the queues are always dead. So I'm stuck doing my once a day purgatory that is the shit slop they serve up as pvp.

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

What happens when the 2nd place team bullies the 3rd? That's happened in multiple games for me as well. You can't say in that scenario that if it wasn't binary, it wouldn't just work how normal pvp works. The better team will always win.

You'd have a better agreement about removing Battle High, and I'm 100% on board with that. Battle High is terrible as well.

Frontlines has enough going wrong for it. It's a clown fiesta, the gametype changes daily, battle high, a mountain of crowd control and just bad attitude given the fact that it has a chat.

And you wonder why people afk through it or feed to end the game. It's just plain, not fun. It never has been. If you removed the battle pass and the tomes, I wouldn't touch it because of how god awful it is as a play mode. I can't even play CC because the queues are always dead. So I'm stuck doing my once a day purgatory that is the shit slop they serve up as pvp.

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That is funny, because I am seeing more AFKs on WoW battleground than in FF14 Frontline
It is even worst on the Epic Battleground (in which this is your ideal PvP format)
It has no Battle High, maybe except more crowd control.
Has Horde even able to win one Alterc Valley at all?
Expand from this, if there is a 3rd faction on North East corner, do you think Allies still can choke hold Horde at checkpoint?

People are afk because they are lazy and lack of respect to others and the culture is not based on collectivism; not necessarily because mode is bad
In your truly those AFKs in 24 men raid because they know they will be carried
If they get same penalty as PvE, do you think they will even afk?
Will they still afk when they are no longer rewarded for participation?
This is the core discussion of this thread

2nd place team bullies 3rd?
Of course it will happen when there is no shot caller or commander
It is also more about Battle High rather than 3 ways format
People lack of understanding that first spawn of nodes are pointless on Onsal Hakir and Seize and it is essential to obtain BH.
By the time the objective goers realize they are way behind on BH, of course they will attack 3rd place in order to compete with first one
If team has maintained reasonable level of BH, they will go for first place instead

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

What happens when the 2nd place team bullies the 3rd?

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That's because the average FFXIV pvp players are freaking dumb. They cannot read what's happening in the light of the current score and the map. You can make all the gameplay adaptation you want, if your player mentality is such as it is in FFXIV, it always gonna be bad.

People rush the closest group of enemies without any basic strategic thinking. Granted, one of the maps is very bad for pincer attacks, so it kinda suck, but with the other, there is no excuses. Between the guenines idiots, the obvious wintrades and people that don't care because they're there for the free xp, this mode is such a mess, and you're lucky when once in a while you get to have fun in this because you are in a game with 3 teams that wants to play the game..

There are 3 teams and nodes spawn randomly are to make it so that the gamemode is beginner-friendly in a way that the losing factors are less controllable, and when you lose you can say something like "the other 2 teams were bullying us" or "cringe spawns" and get over it.

Frontline is supposed to be a casual PvP content, the massive EXP bonus is in the daily challenge so that players whom wouldn't queue for PvP otherwise would consider joining, so that the queue actually pops frequent enough for us whom put some effort into it.

I am not saying it is absolutely correct or I fully agree with it but I can see why it is how it is. Perhaps try Rival Wings if you want a 2 teams large scale PvP. The only thing I hope they improve on is get rid of the AFK players, in my opinion that isn't just us carrying water for them, we are more like having to slow down the pace to feed them water.