Summoner rework is a huge dissapointment

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Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin

As others said old smn wasn't really that hard. After you get basic down to old smn the flow was pretty easy to get hold of. The hard thing about old smn was learning its opener since the game really didn't do a good job pointing you in the right direction and you most like had to use outside sources to learn the job. After you did that and practice on a dummy some the job got easier and played just any other job in the game. At least that was my experience with SB and ShB smn. The problem most of us have with new smn is that they took all its complexly and flexibility out and made it on the rails experience where you only press one or two buttons and you can't really never able to adjust for downtime or adds in the savage fights.

I have been on the threads saying the same thing: I don't want to them go back to old smn, I like new smn but I want them to add more and finish the job. Since new smn does feel unfinished and feels it need more added to it. I want this to happen sooner than later also, I want them to continue to work on smn thought out 6.0 instead of leaving us with this unfinished version of the job for 2 years. I'm a die-hard smn lover and hurts me I had to switch to rdm this tier because it is just more fun to play in savage fights than smn. I still do roulette's as smn to get my fill but on raid nights I rather play rdm just because I know that job is more engaging to play.

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I agree with you wholeheartedly. Summoner feels very unfinished. I also wish we had more flexibility and more summons. We have so many primals yet we only get 3? I think they dedicated only a set amount of times to each job and when summoner’s time was up they just said “well okay that’s all we can do for now” I truly hope this isn’t all we get for the next 2 years because that will be completely disappointing. I like new summoner but I want more flexibility and more and more summons please. Don’t make us wait 2 years devs please.

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Summoner feels very unfinished. I also wish we had more flexibility and more summons. We have so many primals yet we only get 3? I think they dedicated only a set amount of times to each job and when summoner’s time was up they just said “well okay that’s all we can do for now” I truly hope this isn’t all we get for the next 2 years because that will be completely disappointing. I like new summoner but I want more flexibility and more and more summons please. Don’t make us wait 2 years devs please.

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Yeah I feel the same. I also think they have the design backward with how you summon everything. Instead of the demis giving us the elements summons, we should be summoning the elements summons to get to the demis. The way I thought they could fix smn within a expac is to switch things around. Each primal is on a cooldown(kinda like brds songs) and you have to summon each to get a gem. When you all three gems you then can summon a demi. I think that is a simple fix to add some flexibility to the job as it now. Also so you can open up with a demi for your opener add a button that is on a 120s cooldown that just gives you three gems for free, like what jobs have now of days. That is just one idea I had that I hope the devs may see and think about doing. I know they are kinda limited in what they can do in the middle of a expac but I like to see small meaningful changes like this that make the job fun to play as we wait to 7.0.

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Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin

Yeah I feel the same. I also think they have the design backward with how you summon everything. Instead of the demis giving us the elements summons, we should be summoning the elements summons to get to the demis. The way I thought they could fix smn within a expac is to switch things around. Each primal is on a cooldown(kinda like brds songs) and you have to summon each to get a gem. When you all three gems you then can summon a demi. I think that is a simple fix to add some flexibility to the job as it now. Also so you can open up with a demi for your opener add a button that is on a 120s cooldown that just gives you three gems for free, like what jobs have now of days. That is just one idea I had that I hope the devs may see and think about doing. I know they are kinda limited in what they can do in the middle of a expac but I like to see small meaningful changes like this that make the job fun to play as we wait to 7.0.

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Personally I think completely differently. Keep Demi and the Avatars functionally independent, with Demis and Aetherflow being a clearly defined burst phase you choose when to use, while Carby and the Avatars are the filler. Instead of needing to get the avatars to access the elemental spells you should need to use a system of elemental spells (which I believe should be tied to Carbuncle, not the player) to unlock the avatars. This is what the older iterations all did well. They were priority/resource management focused and had multiple elemental actions tied to their associated pet allowed for that integration without sacrificing the core heartbeat of casting spells, which kept Arcanist well integrated with the Summoner lore. This is why I said Shadowbringers was the best version of the job. That endgoal was much easier to insert into that version than this one, and even gave the individual avatars (back when they were Egi, something I can agree wasn't aesthetically pleasing as I only ever used the Carbies afterward) individually assigned roles. DoTs or no DoTs that is the core I wanted to be fleshed out to begin with. This iteration completely misses the point, on top of making it functionally impossible to implement because of how the avatars work (meaning the current version has to go to make this idea possible).

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

Personally I think completely differently. Keep Demi and the Avatars functionally independent, with Demis and Aetherflow being a clearly defined burst phase you choose when to use, while Carby and the Avatars are the filler. Instead of needing to get the avatars to access the elemental spells you should need to use a system of elemental spells (which I believe should be tied to Carbuncle, not the player) to unlock the avatars. This is what the older iterations all did well. They were priority/resource management focused and had multiple elemental actions tied to their associated pet allowed for that integration without sacrificing the core heartbeat of casting spells, which kept Arcanist well integrated with the Summoner lore. This is why I said Shadowbringers was the best version of the job. That endgoal was much easier to insert into that version than this one, and even gave the individual avatars (back when they were Egi, something I can agree wasn't aesthetically pleasing as I only ever used the Carbies afterward) individually assigned roles. DoTs or no DoTs that is the core I wanted to be fleshed out to begin with. This iteration completely misses the point, on top of making it functionally impossible to implement because of how the avatars work (meaning the current version has to go to make this idea possible).

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And personally, I really don't like your ideas and the way you want to take smn sorry. You and I have butt heads before about pet ai and stuff so I'm not going to get into it with you again. Honestly, I don't know why you reply to my post since you already know my feelings about some of your ideas. I don't think we should go back to the old ways of smn and use pet ai at all. So let's just agree to disagree and move on. I like the new smn system and I think the devs can make improvements on it since I believe they also like the new system they made. So let's not take a step back just to make you happy...

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Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin

Yeah I feel the same. I also think they have the design backward with how you summon everything. Instead of the demis giving us the elements summons, we should be summoning the elements summons to get to the demis. The way I thought they could fix smn within a expac is to switch things around. Each primal is on a cooldown(kinda like brds songs) and you have to summon each to get a gem. When you all three gems you then can summon a demi. I think that is a simple fix to add some flexibility to the job as it now. Also so you can open up with a demi for your opener add a button that is on a 120s cooldown that just gives you three gems for free, like what jobs have now of days. That is just one idea I had that I hope the devs may see and think about doing. I know they are kinda limited in what they can do in the middle of a expac but I like to see small meaningful changes like this that make the job fun to play as we wait to 7.0.

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I think that's a nice idea honestly, you could even make it connected to aetherflow, making it a relevant part of the kit again. Bring back the actual aetherflow action, make it 3 again, and spend 1 each on summoning. That, or they could bring back dreadwyrm aether required for summoning bahamut which could be accumulated by using fester or painflare during elemental summon trances. Then, you could get ruin 4 stacks by using the elemental rites. I would ideally also throw in more cast times for gcds and make ruin 4 the weaving option for bahamut phase again.

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Originally Posted by anhaato

I think that's a nice idea honestly, you could even make it connected to aetherflow, making it a relevant part of the kit again. Bring back the actual aetherflow action, make it 3 again, and spend 1 each on summoning. That, or they could bring back dreadwyrm aether required for summoning bahamut which could be accumulated by using fester or painflare during elemental summon trances. Then, you could get ruin 4 stacks by using the elemental rites. I would ideally also throw in more cast times for gcds and make ruin 4 the weaving option for bahamut phase again.

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Oh yeah, that be nice also. I would love to have my aetherflow button back from SB and have three aetherstacks again tbh. All you suggest are really good ideas for smn. My idea is mostly a quick or temp fix to the current smn as we wait for 7.0 since I know there is so much the devs can do in the middle of expac. Honestly, I really don't know how much they could change a job in the middle of expac, I know we saw a mini rework to mnk during ShB that set it up for its compete rework in EW. I'm hoping the EW smn is kinda like that. Part one of a rework that they will finish sometime in EW down the line.

I finally set up hot bars and and gave the rework a shot, it looks great but it’s sucks. After enjoying it a lot in shb (I didn’t ever play it current, just in echo savage farms) I was pretty worried over this rework and I was right, it’s on the “do not open till 7.0” shelf along with monk. It’s not even a casting job anymore, you just run around pressing the glowing buttons and there’s no fail states to separate good players from bad.

I'd like to share this video I happened across on youtube. Feel like it perfectly captures people's issues with new SMN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niwMUfh8VrQ

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I'd like to share this video I happened across on youtube. Feel like it perfectly captures people's issues with new SMN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niwMUfh8VrQ

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I'll watch when I have time.

But for me, underperforming is one thing. Underperforming and playing an unfun job in savage because its too simple and too rigid is mind blowing. SMN is fun casually because those caveats don't matter to people that don't raid. It's really bad in raids. The current SMN will most likely not work in 6.1 Ultimate because you're gonna have really bad time break sequences that will just hinder SMN more than fights like P2S and P4S.

When I play current Summoner the only time I feel great is when Aetherflow and Titan is up for quad weave shenanigans. Other then that you pretty much just press Ruin 3 the whole time. Boring as shit.

I'd much rather that instead of Energy Drain that each summon gave you aetherflow stacks to use. And make Ruin 4 oGCD. Breaks up the flow so much.

The job is just like MCH. Once the aesthetic wears off you begin to see all the problems and just think wow this class is shit. What were they thinking?

Edit: I just tried this one button macro shenanigans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjjUkRsV9GI

Some examples from the macro creator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r3T1X0OXIU (Dark Inside Extreme)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BId-R_GKsNc (P2N)

It actually performs well as a one button mashfest. Would I use it outside of funsies? No. Especially since I play differently from this macro rotation.

But it does illustrate a point that the rework is essentially a one button job. All you do is push Ruin 3 forever with fancy fireworks.