Gender Locks Have Revealed the Worst in Players.

OP I'm going to reiterate, so you canceled your sub over a gender lock? Yea you can stay gone. It's a dumb reason to quit....

Mad? Yea that's fine. Quit? Bye felicia!

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Originally Posted by J-Reyno

I didn't call the comment homophobic, I called it sexist. These are two different things, and we're fortunate enough to have google available to educate you. Use it.

"Lore" as an explanation is not valid when 1) you can have eight WHMs in a party and 2) they write the lore to their desires. In this case, they've written the lore in such a way to keep out those "weird" Viera males.

Also, we appreciate you showing your true feelings on the matter. You hate those raunchy gays, is that it? You've decided that anyone who wants male Viera is a homosexual ERPer and you don't want those people in your game.

Tell you what, we'll concede your point once you find examples of my pUbLiC hOmOsExUaL RP!?!?!

You can't, and you won't. You've decided to make up some imaginary boogeyman in your head because you have no other point to make that won't include made-up quotes and false assumptions of character. You mock, demean and disparage because your arguments are as empty as your head.

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lore on vierra goes back to ff12. they had a village of all females. its highly unlikely that bunny men were erased by yoshida with this in mind.

also, not really sexist. they already have effiminite men, and therevis no indication vierra males would be effiminate.

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Originally Posted by Illianaro

Just wanted to take a moment to speak to this piece of it, and just give my perspective as to why I didn't care about it then but care about it now. In FFXII, I played as other characters - as Vaan, Fran, Basch, Ashe, etc... Fran was a Viera I played as, but never my character. Viera lore always fascinated me.

But here, I play my own character, for whom I conceive backstories and personalities, and even plan out character arcs (I'm a writer, literally always writing). We're going to the Viera homeland in Shadowbringers. I took male Viera as given once it became clear the race was coming. I get that SE never promised us males, and I acknowledge that I assumed.

With the combination of ShB news and Viera lore, I came up with an awesome backstory for my character, with personality traits and idiosyncracies. I was really excited to be a male Viera. I feel really let down that I don't get to run around as that character. May still write his story though.

Look, people on both sides of this argument are running on intense emotions. Neither side of the disagreement is a hoard of demons or whatever, but we've spent the last 48 hours throwing some pretty horrific, personal attacks at one another. This isn't productive, and really does reflect the worst in us - on both sides.

We all love FFXIV, and are all passionate, and all care about different things. We can be productive - and even disagree - without turning on each other like this.

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but, there are virtually no male vierra in the lore of 12, or now in xiv. If you accept lore exists, its not surprising you may not have access to everything you could conceptualizs.

but i feel like by now, you were either very lucky, or not too creative, because the vast majority of possible charachters you can conceptualize have never been available for creation. Children, people with fat on them. older people of most backround, etc.

its fine to be disappointed and ask for what you want, but dont act like developers wronged you, or are out to oppress people because they made a choice you didnt like.

you here is not primarily the poster, but the people making those claims.

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Originally Posted by Physic

lore on vierra goes back to ff12. they had a village of all females. its highly unlikely that bunny men were erased by yoshida with this in mind.

also, not really sexist. they already have effiminite men, and therevis no indication vierra males would be effiminate.

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I don't think they would be (or need to be) effeminate. It's more of an issue, specifically, with the dev team having a hangup regarding boys with bunny ears.

Seriously though, it's like I've said before regarding Yoshi's "having a rabbit male might be kind of weird" comment. This, along with the men of the dev team (the men, specifically, as stated by Yoshi himself) actually refusing to work on the bunny outfit for male characters because it made them "uncomfortable". They had to ask female members of the team to work on it, resulting in it taking longer. They made the women do the work because the men straight up refused. How wild is that?

Let's really unpack that; as others have said, we do already have skimp options for males in the game. Why is there an issue creating a skimpy variation of the bunny outfit for men? It's because, as Yoshi stated before, bunny boys are "weird" for them. You'd think they'd just make them somewhat buff bunny boys or something, but this is obviously a hangup for the dev team.

Bunny women and girls with bunny ears have long been something of a feminine sex symbol, or a symbol of femininity in general. For them it's uncomfortable to put boys in bunny ears due to the longtime associations. It's not like I think the dev team is evil, but I do think they conform to a trend which has its basis in casual, societal sexism.

They are under no obligation to give players everything they want, but it deserves to be called out for what it is.

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Originally Posted by Varathael

I wouldn't describe the Viera as a "warrior woman only" society. Lore for Viera has it where the males are fiercely territorial in both 12 and 14, and 14's lore has it where they protect the forest from intruders. Those who do see a male Viera when intruding into their lands are like to experience it as their very last sight, according to the Draumaturge.

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so they have 0 interest in leaving their territory, to be part of the outside world, which gets us back to gender locking :)
well it's a stretch to even have female Viera, considering they are little better in that department.
It's awkward to have the warrior of light, being of a xenophobic race/culture. or said race running a RP cafe.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

so they have 0 interest in leaving their territory, to be part of the outside world, which gets us back to gender locking :)
well it's a stretch to even have female Viera, considering they are little better in that department.
It's awkward to have the warrior of light, being of a xenophobic race/culture. or said race running a RP cafe.

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While fair, female Viera leaving the forests are also exceedingly rare; those like Fran are viewed as outcasts, as family no longer. They lose the ability to hear the Green Word, are ostracized. Fran is very much a rarity, it's why people look at her as a curiosity in FF12.

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Originally Posted by Physic

but, there are virtually no male vierra in the lore of 12, or now in xiv. If you accept lore exists, its not surprising you may not have access to everything you could conceptualizs.

but i feel like by now, you were either very lucky, or not too creative, because the vast majority of possible charachters you can conceptualize have never been available for creation. Children, people with fat on them. older people of most backround, etc.

its fine to be disappointed and ask for what you want, but dont act like developers wronged you, or are out to oppress people because they made a choice you didnt like.

you here is not primarily the poster, but the people making those claims.

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I dunno... I had enough information to come up with at least a basis for a character. A viera taken away from his home and family at a young age, once it became clear he was male. Raised by a fellow viera who became the closest to family he had, a mentor, who taught him to fend for himself, to fight, to protect the forest, always thinking of the family he was forced to leave behind. Or, better yet, a male viera who was hidden when it became clear he was male, and found later on - as the lore I saw indicated that this happened from time to time.

A viera raised among only another viera, in the wilderness, would have a bit of a wilder personality, protective, tentative about other people, with less social grooming - as social awareness is not as vital as being able to hunt, feed yourself, survive, and protect the forest from outsiders. Wouldn't necessarily be a loner, but would struggle to make connections because of a trained guardedness.

Then the male viera, during those rare times of going back to the villages, learns his sister left the wood at great risk. Gets the idea that he's going to get out there and find her. He manages to escape the wood, almost dying in the process. It sets up conflict between him and his mentor. It sets up at least intriguing interactions with the world. It sets up some fun RP implications in game. And boom, I have the broad strokes for a start of a story.

It's not complete, and maybe it's not super creative, but it's enough for me to get excited at the idea. I don't mind if others don't find the idea original - I was enjoying the theorycrafting.

Looking forward to being female lion but since there not going to be one saves me from buying a fantasia. Doesn't affect me any but will SE sales from not selling as many fantasia from ones that would bought them. To me Viera just ugly with those super tall ears. Unless they can be made shorter won't even consider changing to one.

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Originally Posted by J-Reyno

This, along with the men of the dev team (the men, specifically, as stated by Yoshi himself) actually refusing to work on the bunny outfit for male characters because it made them "uncomfortable". They had to ask female members of the team to work on it, resulting in it taking longer. They made the women do the work because the men straight up refused. How wild is that?

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I actually think they would've been more comfortable working on it, had they actually made what the majority of people were asking for. Most, from what I saw, wanted a unique male version of the bunny suit. Like a Chippendales type thing. Instead, they went with the female version slapped on males (likely from misunderstanding). Which, btw, I have seen maybe twice since they added them. And it was only in Eureka. Obviously it was not what the majority of people wanted, and I'd be interested to know how many male characters actually glamour it.

Still, it's not "backwards" to respect other cultures' societal norms. You wouldn't, for instance, go into a Muslim country and tell the women to take their hajib off. The more progressive action is to work with and try to understand other cultures and why they might feel uncomfortable putting something in their IP. Instead of insulting them, calling for boycotts, or storming out of the room like a spoiled child. But I don't want to "white knight" here, so...

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Originally Posted by TarynH

I actually think they would've been more comfortable working on it, had they actually made what the majority of people were asking for. Most, from what I saw, wanted a unique male version of the bunny suit. Like a Chippendales type thing. Instead, they went with the female version slapped on males (likely from misunderstanding). Which, btw, I have seen maybe twice since they added them. And it was only in Eureka. Obviously it was not what the majority of people wanted, and I'd be interested to know how many male characters actually glamour it.

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I see it daily, but you can also see that I'm currently on Mateus. There are a ton of people here annnnd well, you see a lot. LOL. I didn't really care for the implementation of the outfit myself, but 1) I wouldn't have worn it no matter what it looked like and 2) I think it's fine that some enjoy it for what it is. Different strokes and all that. There are definitely outfits that see even less wear, I'll tell you that, and frankly there really shouldn't be a discussion about whether or not it should be included. Distribute the assets equally, even if you have to negotiate the design to better compliment male/female form.

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Originally Posted by TarynH

Still, it's not "backwards" to respect other cultures' societal norms. You wouldn't, for instance, go into a Muslim country and tell the women to take their hajib off. The more progressive action is to work with and try to understand other cultures and why they might feel uncomfortable putting something in their IP. Instead of insulting them, calling for boycotts, or storming out of the room like a spoiled child. But I don't want to "white knight" here, so...

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I would also not tell women from Muslim nations that they have to wear them, either. One thing people need to understand is that societal norms can be bad. It wasn't so long ago that racial discrimination in America was a widely accepted societal norm. Jim Crow laws were enforced until 1965, and not everywhere in the world is as socially progressive. Where is the empathy for the people living within these cultures who don't conform to these outdated societal norms, or are otherwise forced to do so to the detriment of their qualify of life? People around the world are still fighting tooth and nail for every scrap of equality they can get, even in America. It's an endless fight for what amounts to common decency. People are tired.

Having said that, I agree that we can work together respectfully. But respect goes both ways. They already know we don't like genderlocked races and they've told us before that we won't have them. Between that and showing us concept art of male Viera, their decision came out of left field and then they refused to even address it for over a month until the final fanfest. This was not handled well on their end. Queue disappointment and outrage.