Tanks using ilv270 STR acessories

Having low HP in dungeons isn't a big deal, unless enemies are one shotting him, which they shouldn't, max HP rarely makes a difference

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Originally Posted by SeriousxSarcasm

This makes me glad I have so many former-WoW raider tanks in my FC. ^^; They're quite happy with the bigger emphasis on VIT and mitigation, so at least I know, never go in without my tanks, because I don't want these dps meta types. D: Most are too unskilled to pull it off, and I personally don't have the patience for the ones that're gonna point fingers at the rest of the party when they screw up.

On the bright side, if I see a tank running around with the same HP as me, I'll just summon titan-egi until they switch, and lol for days while they struggle to take hate from him. XD It's sad seeing my stupid chicken nugget do a better job, but you do what you gotta do. >w<

And before you start in on me with out of context quotes: I am referring to the scrub imitators. There are a small amount of people that can handle the STR game play. Are any of those likely to be queuing with randoms in DF? Not likely no. For one, only an idiot expects randoms to adjust to that style of tank with no problems. No, the ones we will get in DF will be copy cats that think it sounds cool, but don't actually have the skills to tank that way, and they'll claim that it's the healer's fault for not healing enough, and/or the DD's fault for not using enmity reduction properly. We already had this issue with tanks that don't know how to stance dance, and then blaming the rest of the party for their own short-comings.

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A game shouldn't bend to the will of the lowest. There needs to be room for those with skill to show that skill. Not saying low skilled people shouldn't be able to tank, but removing a higher skill ceiling just so they dont feel the need to get better is asanine.

As someone who tanked in WoW, I can also safely say that of course they are happy with a bigger focus on base defense. WoW tanking is stupendously easy with no real place for a tank to show any sort of skill. They dont need to push themselves to do much of anything beyond "Ok I can taunt now.".

EDIT: That you summon your tanking pet out of spite makes me think you're just a generally obnoxious person to group with at worst and simply don't know what you're talking about at best.

More vit doesn't make you tank better. If you're struggling to stay alive with lower vit its because you aren't mitigating properly. Someone with all str acc will take the same damage as someone with vit. If anything you'll mitigate MORE with higher str as it means an increase in your self healing potencies.

Let me say again. Someone who is doing poorly with low vit will also be doing poorly with high vit because they aren't using their mitigation, which is unaffected by your vit.

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Originally Posted by Kyt

If you would rather have a vit tank over a str tank merely because there's more room for error, then your tank won't be able to clear harder content anyway, no matter how much hp he has.

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If you notice, my examples are of Duty Finder tanks. Do I want more room for error with randoms? Yes! People thrown together with no knowledge of each other do not often work well together, and rolling the dice with a STR based tank in that situation doesn't sound like a good time (and especially with the noticeable decline in healer competence lately). Am I going to DF the next EX primal? No!

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Originally Posted by Tila

EDIT: That you summon your tanking pet out of spite makes me think you're just a generally obnoxious person to group with at worst and simply don't know what you're talking about at best.

More vit doesn't make you tank better. If you're struggling to stay alive with lower vit its because you aren't mitigating properly. Someone with all str acc will take the same damage as someone with vit. If anything you'll mitigate MORE with higher str as it means an increase in your self healing potencies.

Let me say again. Someone who is doing poorly with low vit will also be doing poorly with high vit because they aren't using their mitigation, which is unaffected by your vit.

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I summon my tanking pet when the tank is doing poorly and the party is wiping. If that makes me obnoxious, then I'll accept that.

But can you deny that a bad tank is better off to just stack VIT? Not everyone can or will learn to be skilled at this game. Yes, it's laughably easy at times, but the fact is most tanks are not good, most healers are not good, most DPS are not good. A tank bad at mitigation with lots of HP can be worked around by the rest of the party, one with shite HP and no sense of mitigation? (which is what we will mostly see, I'm glad for the tank mains that don't have to deal with it, but most of us peasants have to do so).

I would also like to note, the tank can be great at their job, but if we get saddled with a crappy healer that's not prepared for a STR tank, we're still gonna wipe. :P

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

but a tank should never do as much dps as a real dps class.

so its a good thing what SE is doing ^^

it was a needed nerf to balance things out in the trinity system.

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Tanks have never done as much damage as a DPS class. At the absolute height of tank damage relative to DPS damage (Gordias, where tanks could wear current-iLevel STR gear and had 1:1 AP scaling), the highest-DPS tank class averaged only 90% the damage of the lowest-DPS DPS class.

From 3.2 to 3.5, the top-damage tank classes topped out at typically 65-70% the damage of a dedicated DPS class. This was appropriate - any lower a proportion of the damage, and you\\\\'re creating an imbalance where improving your skills on some classes (in this instance, tanks) benefits your party much less than improving your skills on other classes (DPS).

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Originally Posted by SeriousxSarcasm

If you notice, my examples are of Duty Finder tanks. Do I want more room for error with randoms? Yes! People thrown together with no knowledge of each other do not often work well together, and rolling the dice with a STR based tank in that situation doesn't sound like a good time (and especially with the noticeable decline in healer competence lately). Am I going to DF the next EX primal? No!

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Well unfortunately you can't have it both ways. If you allow 270 str accessories for tanks, it makes the tanking classes more difficult (and more fun) to play, but you will deal with crappy tanks in 270 str gear. On the other side of the coin, if you lock the 270 str gear and make tanks purely vit meat shields who do no damage, MOST of the good tanks are going to stop playing tank in search of something more fulfilling.

Most people don't agree with me, but I love having two styles of tanking. It allows for varied gameplay and adds a sense of empowerment when you understand your class and the fight at the fullest to be able to min-max yourself further instead of being relegated to an enmity bot.

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Originally Posted by SeriousxSarcasm

I summon my tanking pet when the tank is doing poorly and the party is wiping. If that makes me obnoxious, then I'll accept that.

But can you deny that a bad tank is better off to just stack VIT? Not everyone can or will learn to be skilled at this game. Yes, it's laughably easy at times, but the fact is most tanks are not good, most healers are not good, most DPS are not good. A tank bad at mitigation with lots of HP can be worked around by the rest of the party, one with shite HP and no sense of mitigation? (which is what we will mostly see, I'm glad for the tank mains that don't have to deal with it, but most of us peasants have to do so).

I would also like to note, the tank can be great at their job, but if we get saddled with a crappy healer that's not prepared for a STR tank, we're still gonna wipe. :P

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A bad tank will be taking the exact same amount of damage with or without VIT acc. Will need the exact same amount of healing. Will, if anything, have LESS mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

i dont really mind if someone runs around with str acceoirees or notbut a tank should never do as much dps as a real dps class.
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So actually agree for once people who plays dps who gets out dpsed by tanks are actually bad? Since tanks never did out dps an actuall dps unless the dps was bad lol.

Jesus here come the people defending strength tanks again. SE pls recalculate the enmity scaling again. -_-

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Originally Posted by Kyt

Well unfortunately you can't have it both ways. If you allow 270 str accessories for tanks, it makes the tanking classes more difficult (and more fun) to play, but you will deal with crappy tanks in 270 str gear. On the other side of the coin, if you lock the 270 str gear and make tanks purely vit meat shields who do no damage, MOST of the good tanks are going to stop playing tank in search of something more fulfilling.

Most people don't agree with me, but I love having two styles of tanking. It allows for varied gameplay and adds a sense of empowerment when you understand your class and the fight at the fullest to be able to min-max yourself further instead of being relegated to an enmity bot.

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Sounds like a catch 22 doesn't it. :(

I can respect that view! One of my fav moments in game as a support DPS is when I'm pushed to use all my other skills on top of maxing my rotation, and seeing them make a difference, so I can understand tanks finding fulfillment that way. But, like, I know a PLD who's fulfillment comes from being the "best tank." I say it in quotes because I don't actually mean "the best," I mean, they like seeing the healers DPS and never have to heal them. They like having unshakeable enmity. They like using their party support skills and new shielding skills. Hell, sometimes I've seen the party just falling to pieces and they save it with a CD, Cover, and a bit of well placed Clemency spam to give the healers a chance to find their feet. I don't think we will ever see something like that from a STR built WAR.

It just seems like the "DPS min/maxers" reject that kind of mentality. I personally don't think a tank not interested in maxing DPS = subpar. In meta, for sure there is a very specific way to maximize everything, but expecting everyone to play to that and find enjoyment in that is silly.

Although I think all of this could be solved if they just changed the enmity gen back to VIT. XD;