[dev1206] Class Reforms & Action Lists

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Originally Posted by viion

No it doesnt, i think it is fairly clear:

"The following is a listing of changes to actions planned for patch 1.20, along with those to be introduced alongside the implementation of jobs in 1.21."

Break it down.

The following (the above stuff) is a listing of changes for actions planned in the patch
ALONG
with those to be introduced (those job skills seen above) alongside the implementation of jobs in 1.21

Its saying here are the changes to Actions and since we only have classes atm it displays then and it is also displaying job skills along with it which will come with the implementation of jobs in 1.21.

Its clear. The way you are thinking about it, they'd be no Job skills shown because how you think of it, is that more skills with come along with jobs when they are released, but its showing all the skills there.

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I understand now, thanks for clearing things up =)

*Looks at your Edit* Now Im Hungry.. :P

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Originally Posted by Kiote

People like you fail to understand that there is no going back..

If these changes are awful when they are implemented, we are stuck with them. Yoshida doesn't have the benefits of trying something and then changing it if it doesn't work. They spent all that Credit on the release. He is literally on a forced march forward and can never look back.

If something looks awful to you, you need to speak up now. Once it's in the game, it's there to stay. They can adjust potency and difficult. Simple adjustment can be made in the future. A system overhaul like this is a one shot deal.

If it looks bad, speak up. You will not get a second chance.

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you already know this is the way it is on these forums. if you see something before it comes out you worry about and bring it up you are crying without trying it. if you complain after they are put in you are told to shut up and go play wow. this group doesn't care about anyone else that plays the game now nor would want to play it in the future. the sheep will go to their own slaughter.

i can agree we shouldn't jump to conclusions over these postings until they are put in game, but the fact is both sides are already doing the same thing. one group sees the changes and can think of the bad things possible and the other only thinks of the positives. neither side cares to see the other side of the argument.

tanaka was right when he said the forums were a horrible idea and would never work.

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Originally Posted by Katella_Avenlea

Just seems our utility classes are just becoming ghetto versions of their assigned jobs in some cases. I would very much like to be mistaken, so if there is something I'm missing or not understanding correctly please (kindly) tell me so I won't be thinking of this wrong, but this is my initial impression with what they've released.

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I'm going to say you're not too far off in what's you're seeing. Yeah, THM is basically a mini-BLM now. No, Sac, raise, or enfeebles. It might as well be a completely different class. As to whether or not it can solo well, that remains to be seen. Sure, you won't be able to solo the way you had before. You'll have to relearn the class. BLMs in FFXI had no problems soloing, and although THM lost heals and enfeebles, it seems as though it's gained a ton of offensive power. So soloing just might involve crowd controlling and nuking things to death. And sure, that's not what the THM populace signed up for. And I honestly sympathize with that. But it's literally the end of the class as you know it. Gotta roll with the punches or move on, cause I can guarantee you not much can possibly be done about it. The same can be said about every other class change. Only a small minority is gonna think these changes suck. And that's not enough to get Yoshi-P's butt moving to change things.

You know, because of this debate, I went back and looked over the abilities with an eye specifically for an offensive CNJ build. I think it has a lot of potential. Grab the cross class spells and abilities from THM and a fill your remaining two slots with ARC emnity- abilities. Between CNJ's ability to increase it's own offensive magic power, and reduce/regain MP over time, it could be a real powerhouse offensively. You sacrifice WHM, but that's only to be expected; you can't have the best of both worlds.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

you already know this is the way it is on these forums. if you see something before it comes out you worry about and bring it up you are crying without trying it. if you complain after they are put in you are told to shut up and go play wow. this group doesn't care about anyone else that plays the game now nor would want to play it in the future. the sheep will go to their own slaughter.

i can agree we shouldn't jump to conclusions over these postings until they are put in game, but the fact is both sides are already doing the same thing. one group sees the changes and can think of the bad things possible and the other only thinks of the positives. neither side cares to see the other side of the argument.

tanaka was right when he said the forums were a horrible idea and would never work.

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That's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black, isn't it?

You claim that the problem with the forums is that everyone takes a black/white position, but to claim as such, you'd have to be seeing only the black and white positions yourself.

The issue here isn't 'looking at the positives' vs 'looking at the negatives' personal opinions on speculation are just that.

The issue here is that people are jumping to conclusions without the patch being out. That's the divide. One side is saying "Wait and see." While the other is saying "OMG I'M GONNA RAGE QUIT NAOZ!"

Even if the patch on paper involves tropes you might disagree with, the gameplay itself may be enjoyable enough to keep you on. As billing won't commence til sometime after the post is out, give it a shot first to confirm your opinion. There's no harm in that. For as much time and so called loyalty you've invested into the game at this point, that alone should encourage you to give it a chance.

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Originally Posted by Hulan

You know, because of this debate, I went back and looked over the abilities with an eye specifically for an offensive CNJ build. I think it has a lot of potential. Grab the cross class spells and abilities from THM and a fill your remaining two slots with ARC emnity- abilities. Between CNJ's ability to increase it's own offensive magic power, and reduce/regain MP over time, it could be a real powerhouse offensively. You sacrifice WHM, but that's only to be expected; you can't have the best of both worlds.

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Yep, that's one the points of these changes. In fact, it looks they managed to keep the armory system and skill mixing relevant, and at the same time made each class unique.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

you already know this is the way it is on these forums. if you see something before it comes out you worry about and bring it up you are crying without trying it. if you complain after they are put in you are told to shut up and go play wow. this group doesn't care about anyone else that plays the game now nor would want to play it in the future. the sheep will go to their own slaughter.

i can agree we shouldn't jump to conclusions over these postings until they are put in game, but the fact is both sides are already doing the same thing. one group sees the changes and can think of the bad things possible and the other only thinks of the positives. neither side cares to see the other side of the argument.

tanaka was right when he said the forums were a horrible idea and would never work.

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Tanaka was wrong. Disagreements happen, and from conflict comes resolution. Most people will argue their side solely, even if they do see the merits of the other viewpoint. This is how arguments work. Arguing is good.

Personally, I like the changes because combat is currently broken. Sure, it's much better than it was 6 months ago, but it's still broken. Combat changes have been good so far, so I'm going to continue my present optimistic attitude toward changes until I see a reason not to. I have a hard time with people who are upset about the solidification of roles, as there has been plenty of information regarding the roles the different classes will fill. There has been time to change course and modify your expectations.

As for soloing... it doesn't look broken to me. Every class, with the exception of Gladiator, appears to retain solo ability. I could be wrong here, but if you think there's a class that has lost solo ability based on these ability lists, please say which one, and I will gladly explain how I think you're mistaken. As for Gladiator... well, see the next paragraph.

We have been told there will be 15 abilities per class at level 50. Given the fact that other than the DoMs, each class has less than 10 abilities listed, it is safe to assume that these lists are not complete. I imagine that the remaining abilities will fill in some of the gaps that the current list leaves open. This intent of this list seems to be to clarify roles. I'm sure the unlisted abilities will address things such as Gladiator's solo ability and LNC's complete loss of utility. Of course, this is just speculation, other than the fact that these lists are not complete (that is clear).

EDIT: Belay my last paragraph. My count is thrown off because of the funky indentations on comboed WSs. After recounting, each list seems complete. My apologies. It does seem that soloing as Gladiator will be painfully slow. Here's hoping that something can be done about that.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Grats, now you won't be added to a party for ANYTHING but healing as a CON.
Seeing as you have THM close to 50 too though, I bet you don't mind.

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That's the point though, I wanted to cast nukes on CNJ because they had them. Now they only have 2.

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Worse yet he has done more damage to this games lore than he will ever be able to fix

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Must I say this again? People voted for this game to be fundementally changed, and that's what they are doing. The lore could change, NO ONE KNOWS YET so please quit jumping to conclusions about this.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

That's the point though, I wanted to cast nukes on CNJ because they had them. Now they only have 2.



Must I say this again? People voted for this game to be fundementally changed, and that's what they are doing. The lore could change, NO ONE KNOWS YET so please quit jumping to conclusions about this.

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Don't you hate that? People jump to Conclusions all the time in these forums.. its nothing new >.>

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Originally Posted by TinnySnips

Here's hoping that something can be done about that.

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Cross class skills.