Confusion: Archer to Bard? Where is the Ranger Job?

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Originally Posted by Lavani

Because a bard is a support class in final fantasy. They should have added bard AFTER the RNG job.

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Bard should have been its own class, like the original plan was. Then they could have made its job dancer, or something else.

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

Yes, thank you, that was much more than I was willing to type. Also, they do not have to disprove anything, it boils down to what some people want from a job, like the LNC's campaigning against Wyverns for example. While you or I may not care that the job is BRD, others want a ranged damage dealer, and I feel the remedy to this lies within the Archer class itself if they can rebalance it correcly.

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It's a shame that Ranged DPS is anachronistic compared to new-school (post-broadband) MMO design; I won't drone on about it again for everyone's sake, but a few pages ago I went on a spree about why classes that ONLY do damage while being safe, or ONLY do buffing without any survivability can't exist in a Class-to-Job system, or in modern MMOs as a whole, really.

Those who are disappointed about Barcher will probably keep getting disappointed unless they come to understand the modern directions in responsibility balance in MMOs. They'll be disappointed when Musketeer turns into something like Corsair, they'll be disappointed when Ranger is finally announced and it's like, an extension of Beastmaster or something.

Either that, or I'LL be disappointed when they cave and add a pure ranged DD class where, like Archers do now, they just bump the DPS as high as possible and stand safely away from the mob, taking no damage and only accepting the responsibility of "don't take hate" - just alternating between going absolutely apeshit with WS and then standing around doing f**k all while their enmity lowers. Eugh.

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

what is the difference between an archer and ranger?

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Rangers are finely attuned to nature. They are generally able to camoflague themselves with foilage, heal small wounds, track their prey, and call upon nature to strengthen their attacks or defend themselves. When engaged in mortal combat, rangers are versatile in their attacks, competent with daggers, swords, and/or their bow and arrow, but their swiftness of foot and need for stealth precludes them from wearing heavier armor more suited for toe-to-toe defense.

Archers, on the other hand, shoot arrows at things.

My first character in FFXIV was my own "ranger" character, primarily built around ARC, but also included CNJ and GLA skills for healing, stoneskin, and dagger/sword fighting as necessary. It was a ton of fun until the limitations of the game upon its release eventually drove me away until 1.19.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

It's a shame that Ranged DPS is anachronistic compared to new-school (post-broadband) MMO design; I won't drone on about it again for everyone's sake, but a few pages ago I went on a spree about why classes that ONLY do damage while being safe, or ONLY do buffing without any survivability can't exist in a Class-to-Job system, or in modern MMOs as a whole, really.

Those who are disappointed about Barcher will probably keep getting disappointed unless they come to understand the modern directions in responsibility balance in MMOs. They'll be disappointed when Musketeer turns into something like Corsair, they'll be disappointed when Ranger is finally announced and it's like, an extension of Beastmaster or something.

Either that, or I'LL be disappointed when they cave and add a pure ranged DD class where, like Archers do now, they just bump the DPS as high as possible and stand safely away from the mob, taking no damage and only accepting the responsibility of "don't take hate" - just alternating between going absolutely apeshit with WS and then standing around doing f**k all while their enmity lowers. Eugh.

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I think it is ok that you(?) may not want another ranged DD in this game, however, you are not the only person playing, and I think we can both agree that since the creation of these forums there has been nothing except asking for players feedback and trying to gauge community reaction to one thing or another. IF players want a ranged damage dealer, which archer in its currently "nerfed" state is not, then they should be allowed to ask for it even if now is not the time to add it or whatever other argument and bias others may have against it.

I dont see much problem having a role as buffer and damage dealer, in any case if they fix the damage of archer the job itself will be one of the best, you can hit hard and you can upgrade the damage of the party and yourself.

Before the patch and after the patch archer has a hard time soloing compared to marauder/pugilist/gladiator or mages so having extra buffs can help a lot.

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

I think it is ok that you(?) may not want another ranged DD in this game, however, you are not the only person playing, and I think we can both agree that since the creation of these forums there has been nothing except asking for players feedback and trying to gauge community reaction to one thing or another. IF players want a ranged damage dealer, which archer in its currently "nerfed" state is not, then they should be allowed to ask for it even if now is not the time to add it or whatever other argument and bias others may have against it.

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I SMELL A POLL! ... (Well, those words weren't very well thought out...)

Though, to be fair, I'm not really talking about my own desires for what should and shouldn't be in the game - I would just lament the imbalance of having classes that have a lot of responsibilities, and then a cop-out class that just stands where nothing can hit it and and spams the same action until hate gets too high.

Idk, I just see a subtle but important difference between that stance and me actually saying my opinion should be gospel. Are there people who think it's fair and fine if one job has markedly less responsibilities than the others and just gets to faff around whenever their one trick will get themselves or someone else killed?

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I SMELL A POLL! ... (Well, those words weren't very well thought out...)

Though, to be fair, I'm not really talking about my own desires for what should and shouldn't be in the game - I would just lament the imbalance of having classes that have a lot of responsibilities, and then a cop-out class that just stands where nothing can hit it and and spams the same action until hate gets too high.

Idk, I just see a subtle but important difference between that stance and me actually saying my opinion should be gospel. Are there people who think it's fair and fine if one job has markedly less responsibilities than the others and just gets to faff around whenever their one trick will get themselves or someone else killed?

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The same can be said about Black Mage though if you really want to boil down to it, there isn't any reason why Ranger/Whatever shouldn't be given crowd control abilities there are other advantages to standing directly away from battle.

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

The same can be said about Black Mage though if you really want to boil down to it, there isn't any reason why Ranger/Whatever shouldn't be given crowd control abilities there are other advantages to standing directly away from battle.

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This could be; BLM is in the same danger that ARC was - but only if it loses access to any major chunk of THM spells it had. The THM skill set is full of things that need to be closely monitored - DoT rotations need to stay up, back-up sacrifices need to be thrown, Keeping stygian spikes II on the tank, recycling the MP management abilities - actually doing direct damage is almost a secondary responsibility. As long as ANY portion of this carries over from THM to BLM, I'd say it's safe from the ranged DD scenario I'm concerned about. Hell, even MP Management, Hate Management, and Backup Cures would be more responsibility than "Don't take hate. Don't get in the way. Keep kicking ass."

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Crowd control would be a nice start for secondary responsibility for a ranged DD, but it'd be so rarely required; single-target battles and parties wouldn't require it at all, only dungeon/stronghold raids (Which again, is a nice start, but one or two more things would be nice. I'd say maybe some buff rotations from a distance, but that's bard, and that's what people are angry about - any other ideas? There's still time to influence the next ranged classes.)

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

what is the difference between an archer and ranger?

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From Merriam-Webster:

Archer - A person who uses a bow and arrow

Ranger - 1. A soldiers or armed men who range over a region as law enforcement.
2. A soldier especially trained in close-range fighting and in raiding tactics.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I SMELL A POLL! ... (Well, those words weren't very well thought out...)

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Oh GOD ANYTHING BUT THAT, YOU WIN, I GIVE UP, GAME OVER MAN GAME OVER.