The issue nobody wants to address

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Originally Posted by Elazu

This question has been asked multiple times in multiple threads, but the anti-parser crowd always ignores it.

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Can't answer something that has no reasonable answer really, the only argument they have is possible harassment, but that tends to not be as bad nowadays as it was early WoW. Was playing WildStar and one of the DPS was doing half the damage of the 2nd in lead DPS, but no one yelled at him even though we ended up wiping on the final boss a few times due to that last DPS check. Harassment is going to be a thing parser or not, jerks are going to continue to be jerks with or without them, it's just with parsers they'll have another way to be jerks. Oh, there have been more than a few times someone was bitching and poor DPS when they were doing the lowest in FFXIV, it's always very amusing.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

I'd say it's a lot different, though equal in theory lol. Unless the bad DPS are leading to wipes, it's not really on-par with intentionally letting your group die and start over.

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I don't know that it is all that different. The role playing thing is constantly brought up, that its ok to have an Ice Mage, as long as stuff dies eventually. Maybe my DRK is turning over a new leaf and is at peace with herself, and can no longer use DRK skills, only cross class. It sounds stupid right. Maybe I like to examine each room and vista thoroughly before moving on, checking every nook and cranny. Maybe I don't do my full enmity combo, I mean the dps should adjust to me right? I pay my sub. I don't see that being very different from a dps who only uses half their skills. And look no further than BEX for dps consistantly causing wipes. Or if you would like a 4 man example, Nidhogg, the amount of times I've seen that dps check fail is sad.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

It's not bad to give people that push, right now I'm too afraid of pointing out someone's poor DPS and giving them tips if they're a Ninja due to the fear that I'll get reported and smacked with a temporary ban.

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Haha. I complemented someone's DPS and immediately got this fear. Had to add the "your threat is higher" garbage.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I said that as long as players were capable of completing content, preferrably without a wipe, doing damage adequate to complete the content, they were meeting the goals, targets or expectations implicit in the content itself.

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No-one has a problem when content IS getting cleared.

The problem is when someone is WAY underperforming to the minimum needed to clear content yet have it in their mind that the either don't care or they just blindly blame everyone else. A parser will allow the others to point out who is causing the failure to complete the content and either replace or assist. IF they get replaced then they should take it as a wakeup call to improve to no longer be removed in the future.

If the tank underperforms is easy to spot who it is, because there is one tank. If the healer fails to perform it is easy to spot, as one healer. If one DPS underperforms, not so much. A parser will put all DPS at the same accountability as the healer and the tank, how is that not fair?

Underperforming tanks and healers get abused from the same DPS who are scared to show the same level of acocuntability by vocally being against parsers. So they can give it, but put some facts in front of them and they go all a running.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

No-one has a problem when content IS getting cleared.

The problem is when someone is WAY underperforming to the minimum needed to clear content yet have it in their mind that the either don't care or they just blindly blame everyone else. **snip**
Underperforming tanks and healers get abused from the same DPS who are scared to show the same level of acocuntability by vocally being against parsers. So they can give it, but put some facts in front of them and they go all a running.

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I understand that, but I point blank refuse to believe that a player with decent knowledge of the game can't identify when dps is lower than it should be and who the weak link is especially in 4-man content. Are you honestly saying thaton any 4-man content you can't tell when one or other DPS is low? I just think that for regular conent, parsers are unnecessary,and only when it is needed for everyone to do near optimal dps does parsing become useful in helping players to perfect their play.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I understand that, but I point blank refuse to believe that a player with decent knowledge of the game can't identify when dps is lower than it should be and who the weak link is especially in 4-man content. Are you honestly saying thaton any 4-man content you can't tell when one or other DPS is low? I just think that for regular conent, parsers are unnecessary,and only when it is needed for everyone to do near optimal dps does parsing become useful in helping players to perfect their play.

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Well what happens, which it does way too often, when you identify the problem and they refuse to listen? Or even register the fact you are trying to help, or worst case, get all abusive? A parser will let the other say, look, you are doing something wrong, the numbers show it without doubt, try this instead.

Also. I don't know BLMs rotation at 60. So why should I have to read up on a job I'm not playing just to help someone who is too lazy to even read the tooltips?

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Well what happens, which it does way too often, when you identify the problem and they refuse to listen? Or even register the fact you are trying to help, or worst case, get all abusive? A parser will let the other say, look, you are doing something wrong, the numbers show it without doubt, try this instead.

Also. I don't know BLMs rotation at 60. So why should I have to read up on a job I'm not playing just to help someone who is too lazy to even read the tooltips?

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A person unreceptive to helpful advice will remain just as unreceptive if you're armed with parser data, and even if there were an official parser add-on, I think SE will contnue to respond to respond to reports of 'abuse'. I agree you shouldn't have to read up on other job rotations, but you'll surely realize there is a problem with a BLM who never transitions,or sticks to one or two skills.

Fundamentally though, people who already don't want to listen to advice would seem (to me, at least) more likely to be even more annoyed if parser data is used 'against' them as well.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

Sounds like the talkings of cranky old man..."Kids today are too damn spoiled and don't respect their elders! And what happened work ethic? Not anymore! No one cares about quality or craftsmanship! It's all about cranking out as much crap as possible today! And don't get me started on what passes for entertainment these days! All filth and garbage on TV! Give me Andy Griffith any day of the week!"

You for all that too I bet eh?

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Funny how you seem to miss that a lot of arguments the elderly have are legitimate concers although exagerrated at times, you're as close minded as the people who rant off about everything going to crap nowadays if you fail to identify where they're coming from.

That said I'm not a cranky old man (I'm 23) but I have common sense.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Fundamentally though, people who already don't want to listen to advice would seem (to me, at least) more likely to be even more annoyed if parser data is used 'against' them as well.

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But shouldnt that then be their problem, not everyone else who is expected to mollycoddle them through everything? But, lets throw some imaginary figures out here, if out of 10 people, 9 take the data and use it to improve and 1 gets butthurt over it. Isn't that a win anyways? Also when we get the mod system implemented parsers WILL be one of the first mods created whether people want them or not. Plus even when that does happen players will still be able to report abusive players like now.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

But shouldnt that then be their problem, not everyone else who is expected to mollycoddle them through everything? But, lets throw some imaginary figures out here, if out of 10 people, 9 take the data and use it to improve and 1 gets butthurt over it. Isn't that a win anyways? Also when we get the mod system implemented parsers WILL be one of the first mods created whether people want them or not. Plus even when that does happen players will still be able to report abusive players like now.

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I don't think puttin a parser in the hands of every player out there will be as positive as you seem to, and I think the impact on the average level of skill amoung players will be negligible.