Unjust Kicking from Alexander T4

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

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I 100% agree as i'm not one of the ppl who don't wanna learn if ppl wanna toss out tips or give me in put i'm all for it and i thank them. But just as you say {However, there have been several people in here that have said they wanna go in blind or not learn} the same can be said about ppl who feel they don't need to give out tips and expect ppl to know what to do. i think if both sides work together as a team stuff go very well

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

You might consider it common courtesy and good manners. I do not. I am perfectly fine with players going in blind to a DF encounter. I don't expect players to research an encounter before doing it.

When you sign up for a DF you get cast into a pool of random people. If you want to impose expectations onto people than make a PF where you have that level of control. In a DF group, you might be the only one with cursory knowledge of the fight and that is just something you need to go in expecting can happen.

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The problem is, both you and the people who go in blind after content is well established are the exception, not the rule. And the fact that Party Finder has a specific option for "Learning Party" is a heavy implication that you should use the Party Finder if you don't intend to research the fight beforehand.

It really isn't that hard. Mr. Happy's video guides are usually no more than 5 minutes long, and you can skip half of them since he covers trash as well as bosses (he has skip links to bosses and phases in the corner).

And sorry, common courtesy isn't subjective. At this point, players who haven't done the content are quite obviously the minority. Most everyone has done Alexander at least once by this point. So by not doing any research, you are the weak link. (using royal you, as I don't know your circumstances personally).

I'm not saying I would kick a person just for being new and not bothering to take 3 minutes to look up a fight, but it's just plain rude not to take that 3 minutes to get at least cursory knowledge of the fight. The one exception I can accept is if the player doesn't like to spoil fights and prefers to do them blind and learn... and in that case, that's what the Party Finder is for.

In my opinion I'm like

"i'm new" kick me out if that bothers you.=P

However, I also think you should be able to vote kick at the start of the instance for this type of zone, but if a boss dies you should no longer be able to.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

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Me? And what makes you think I'm one of the people who go in blind? I learn things with my static before I do it in DF because I enjoy playing and progressing with them. When I go into DF I already know the mechanics, but everyone is not that lucky to have a static they do things with. When I join DF and someone is new, I have no issues explaining mechanics. It takes less time total than it did to type this response.

The "Learning Party" check box implies nothing. It just means that you can now, as it wasn't always there, indicate that the party is a learning party. Whereas before you wrote it out in the text box. (though it is still far more common to just use the text box)

When you join DF you have chosen to group with people who may be completely clueless on the content you signed up for. That is just how it works.

Edit: Actually because it was bugging me. Where is this "Learning Party" option you're mentioning? I wrote that it wasn't always there, assuming you were correct that there is one. But after looking I just don't see it. People have always used the text box to indicate a learning party. Are you by chance talking about the "Newcomers Welcome" check box?

I honestly don't mind if a person chooses to use the DF while being completely new to the fight, I even don't mind if they repeatedly die due to failing mechanics. What annoys me is that they expect the 7 other people to wait while one of them explains said fight for the amount of time you could have used to browse a youtube video with better in depth explanations. It's just lazy.

It's not my job to teach each and every player that I encounter the mechanics and intricacies of every boss fight, yet I'm forced to do it all the time.

SE might as well pump that custom API out for UI addons so we can hurry up and get the automated auto pilot voice telling us what to do and what mechanics are coming up in every fight so we can complete the conversion to being a game for hand holding cash shop loving babies.

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Originally Posted by Alunari

I always watch the videos by both, they are very good at giving you an idea of the fight, however watching and doing are two different things.

It does make it easier going in with an idea of the fights and what will happen, but it doesn't mean that you are going to be step perfect, videos can help immensely, but nothing beats getting into the fight and putting what you've learnt in the videos into practice ... and it does still take practice.

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I noted in my post that videos are not experience. The OP went in for a non-blind run, and expected to be told mechanics when he could have gotten mechanics told to him by a video without wasting the group's time. No one is saying that videos can replace experience, only that videos should be watched in place of asking groups for explanations.

Gods the elitism being shown by some of the people in this thread is stomach churning. Ugh.

A lot of people seem to conveniently forget, or just really never bother to think about it, but...people learn in different ways.


For those of you who are constantly sitting there saying, watch a video before going in! and so on...it is abundantly clear to me that this lot of people either do not know, do not care to know, or just simply have forgotten that there are 3 types of learners.

Audio: Basically they learn by listening and hearing what is being told to them

Visual: Learns via Charts, Graphs, or even Videos one might say

Kinesthetic: These people learn by doing. Actual hands on stuff. You know, diving into a dungeon and learning the mechanics...like everyone does the first time content is released.

Every Minutiae of a video will not be remembered. Every detail of a guide, will not be remembered. Kinesthtic learners especially are not going to remember every minute detail. I've watched videos to try and refresh my brain after a years absence on some dungeons and when I get in I still find myself struggling to remember what the video said on old and indeed new content.

Don't want to deal with constant wipes or even the most minor of issues? Form a party on your own, old FFXI style where people used to sit there forming their own parties to go level. Then you have a right to gripe.

But don't seriously go in expecting your elitist stubborn, pig headed view to be the rule of law in Duty Finder. Crimeny. I've heard constant cries of entitlement in other circles best attributed to conversations outside of gaming but never have I seen a community so thoroughly rife with a sense of entitlement as this one has.

You know what? I'm a tank. Pld and Drk. If someone is new, I explain it to them, always. I am always more than happy to help people and explain mechanics they might not understand. I went through several, several, Ravana fights with new people and I always took the time and had the patience to work through it with the group and the clear was always attained.

If you don't want to explain things, if you want to have that sense of entitlement, fine. Feel free to do so. Just realize the only person to blame when you are eating dirt along with the rest of the group is because you refused to speak up and help in addition to the rest of the group that decided to remain silent.

You have only yourselves to blame. Period. It takes literally all of less than a minute to give a quick, brief, concise run down on most mechanics. I do it repeatedly without issue and always ask and most of the time can get a quick rundown as well.

If someone comes in, says hey I am new, can you give me a brief rundown...and if everyone refuses and just jumps in...well...

The group only has themselves to blame. Not the newbie. Period and end of story. If someone is intentionally trying to learn, and do their best, and heeding the advice you give, cut them some slack. You were new once too you know. Might do some good to remember the kindness another individual bestowed upon you and perhaps return it?

Like I said. This community has a massive sense of entitlement. If even the slightest thing goes wrong, everyone goes off like a 5 year old raging at the internet. It's hilarious. Especially all of these entitled responses of "Watch a video and don't be a burden to your group or we'll kick you! "

Right. Because heaven forbid your raid take 5 more minutes...

Yeesh.


OP. You did nothing wrong. Requeue, try again. It's all you can do man. Duty Finder, you are playing roulette. No telling what kind of people you are going to get. Just keep trucking. Yes, it sucks. But you do eventually find people willing to help, like myself...instead of those whose sense of self importance is above all else in their eyes.

People don't logon to teach pugs, they really don't. If you can't be bothered to read up/watch a video then I can't be bothered to group with you? it's a pretty simple concept that has been in gaming ever since the internet was invented.

I have a strong feeling the Op wanted an explanation on what to do, but no one said anything, and they proceeded to wipe, then he ran to the forums.

Read up, educate yourself, stop wasting 7 other peoples time, the end.

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Originally Posted by Dracosavarian

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Don't really see how its elitist or unreasonable to want people to read up as much as they can prior to going into a duty rather than after going into it, but okay.

And again, I don't think anyone is saying guides are a replacement for experience. A hands-on learner has NO advantages from a player explanation right before a fight over watching a video/reading a guide before a fight. They will learn from experience the best either way, so again, it's pointless to try and get an explanation right before a fight vs researching it ahead of time.

Expecting people to type out a quick summary (which might I remind you, is likely not going to prepare you adequately), or even worse, a long drawn out explanation of a fight right before it happens is pretty entitled and pointless though...why not get that done before doing a duty? Why make people waste their time for no reason?

Not to mention, trying to read a player explanation and get a good idea of mechanics is like cramming for a test an hour before it happens. It's just not going to beat having plenty of time to study (AKA the time you have to watch videos/read guides before you do a duty) in allowing you to be prepared.