BRD/MCH look here

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

and that's why a raid group has a blm o-o also spread out targets obviously don't suit blm. Bard single target damage is fine, been doing alex 1-4 all day, isn't v far behind other dps now though we do have a drg in the static so theres that. Idk this imaginary dps check ur talking about that's hard with a bard btw, and I've done them all lol.

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Bard single target damage is fine. That's why having one in the party still allows you to clear content. Nothing hard or imagine dps check.... whatever it is you're going on about. They just flat out do less dps than other classes. Not to mention their DPS relies on RNG.

The way I see BRD and MCH they are nothing more than a gimp BLM with a few support utilities that are rarely used. IMO GB/WM did nothing but make the jobs less fun. Going to be honest I wouldn't mind a 45% decrease in damage while in support mode but when Im not a TP/MP battery I want to do comparable damage to blm. We do not need TP/MP songs anymore or no where near when we use to back in 2.0. SMN, BLM, SCH, PLD, DRK and WHM can manage there own mp now. DRG, NIN, MCH and MNK can manage there own TP using DRG's invigorate. Even War can manage there own TP + NIN can throw a goad to War w/out taking a penalty to damage. And before you say BRDs have Foe well DRG now can buff everyone with 15% crit buff and NIN can do several buffs to increase damage for everyone yet we don't consider that a support role?

rarely used...

I'm done with this thread. I'm going to assume alot of complainers in here didn't even bother with the raid content in 2.0 when they apparently had nothing to complain about.

Anyone who says group support is a waste (MP/TP) either doesn't raid and hasn't done content like final coil or has no idea what their talking about. I can promise you in Alex savage these support skills will be mandatory. If bards didn't have these skills at this point literally no one would bring then to a raid because they would just bring another class that provides utility and does more dps.

You can argue that it's not fun anymore and that's fine. Fun is subjective and everyone is entitled to their opinion. But to say that utility is useless is down right ignorant.

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Originally Posted by Chairman_Meow

Bard single target damage is fine. That's why having one in the party still allows you to clear content. Nothing hard or imagine dps check.... whatever it is you're going on about. They just flat out do less dps than other classes. Not to mention their DPS relies on RNG.

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And why would u want 2 of any class? Also arguing single target dps is hardly worthwhile now with this new raid having 2+ targets on screen a lot of the time. T1 boss summons a clone of himself, t3 the hands, t4 the legs. Minuet multidoting and refreshing with ironjaw is Very good dps. bard has good dps vs 2+ high hp targets.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

You can argue that it's not fun anymore and that's fine. Fun is subjective and everyone is entitled to their opinion. But to say that utility is useless is down right ignorant.

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Well in most cases you don't need them. WHM, SCH, SMN, BLM, DRK and PLD can manage there own MP. DRG, MNK, MCH, BRD and NIN can manage there own TP using DRG's cross class utility. Even War can now manage there own TP. Hell NIN can throw out a Goad with out taking any damage penalty. Only in dire circumstances will you ever need TP/MP Regan from BRD and MCH. Even SMN can cast a raise DURRING COMBAT w/out taking a damage penalty.

Still unacceptable.

The problem with Minuet is the loss of mobility. I do not want to be a "turret/caster" bard.

When I feel like doing this, I switch to my Black Mage job.

As long as Minuet will reduce our mobility and turn us into a caster, it will stay a badly designed skill for the bard class.

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Originally Posted by Ormeriel

Still unacceptable.

The problem with Minuet is the loss of mobility. I do not want to be a "turret/caster" bard.

When I feel like doing this, I switch to my Black Mage job.

As long as Minuet will reduce our mobility and turn us into a caster, it will stay a badly designed skill for the bard class.

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That's why you only turn on minuet when you won't be moving for a while. A good example is Ravana Extreme when he sits, charging up his attack while taking x2 damage. The loss of mobility means nothing there because you shouldn't be moving to begin with (sans repelling)

http://www.knowleskreative.com/files...lustration.jpg

Just get RID of Wanderer's Minuet completely. Return bard to being a mobile support job that does ~15% less dps than black mage and everyone will be happy.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

Well in most cases you don't need them. WHM, SCH, SMN, BLM, DRK and PLD can manage there own MP. DRG, MNK, MCH, BRD and NIN can manage there own TP using DRG's cross class utility. Even War can now manage there own TP. Hell NIN can throw out a Goad with out taking any damage penalty. Only in dire circumstances will you ever need TP/MP Regan from BRD and MCH. Even SMN can cast a raise DURRING COMBAT w/out taking a damage penalty.

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U know a paladin runs out of tp in under 3 mins? Also nobody needs paeon like a nin needs it, they will go dry with invigorate not even nearly off cd. All the goad can achieve is delay the paeon slightly if u throw it on the paladin. . Theres no such thing as managing tp either, your either dpsing to max potential or ur not. So sure, if majority of the raid sux at dpsing or voluntairily gimps themselves, yh u wont need paeon then I guess.