We have finally come full circle, SMN's need help!

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Originally Posted by Miotoss

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Whoa, no need to get so zealous. They can't just snap fingers and make buffs and nerfs happen. They need to be programmed, tested, tweaked, tested some more, until they feel like that a balance has been reached. A big movement to get SMN buffed didn't even occur until AFTER the DRG buff. So far SE has actually listened as far as class and job balancing goes. Furthermore, we're getting closer to Heavensward. We know new summons, and some readjustments to the current ones are planned. They're probably not too keen on making major adjustments to SMN when they're already planning some for the expansion.

Tl;Dr: being angry while offering nothing is pointless.

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Originally Posted by lxChrisxl

how could they tell anybody they didn't know how to play? they admitted they sucked at playing ninja.

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It's gone both ways in the past. They somehow didn't expect PLD to be able to survive BCOB bosses with their CDs, even though that should have been the first thing they tested. More recently they've said that NIN wound up doing more damage than they expected. In between those times and on the opposite end of the spectrum, though, they tried to say that WAR was doing okay, only to backpedal and buff it.

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Originally Posted by Odowla

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You also count whole duration of bio2 and bio. You need reduce those last applications halves and from second miasma you need take of 12,5% mana cost + increase mana cost of ruin that you gonna do in the second round since you need cast only one bio2 etc.

Using miasma2 after opener is always dps loss even with contagion. If you think it cost 107 more mana than ruin and you will do 40 potency more than ruin. 107 mana is 40% worth of energy drain = it is worth of 60 potency.

You also do not need 4x+ ruin2 every minute(if you do not need move) if you time your festers during you apply bio. Every time you use ruin2 you lose 54 more mana that is 20% worth of energy drain and in theory you will lose 30 potency every time you do that.

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Originally Posted by Corfish

Whoa, no need to get so zealous.

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Miotoss wasn't angry at all, he's just sad and sharing his fcob experience, there is an huge difference between being zealous/angry and sad :p don't confuse yourself :)

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Originally Posted by Corfish

Tl;Dr: being angry while offering nothing is pointless.

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Well, no offence but you just did :/, also for obvious Lodestone reasons, it seems that you can't really share any cob experiences either and like I said some posts ago :

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Originally Posted by Atomnium

This whole discuss is aiming for an endgame point of view, midcore and raider scenes, it have nothing to do with casual contents.
MP management on casual contents isn't a problem at all as SMN.

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That being said Corfish, I wish you to never meet this terrible feeling as SMN that Miotoss and myself share today, having the deep feeling that playing another job would be way more useful for our raid teams :(.

Back on the thread, like Viridiana and lxChrisxl said, I think we can obviously assume that their testing team is either too small or doesn't suit players play-styles diversity :/.
Like I said a PTS would be very welcome for future contents.

Meanwhile this thread has gone very far, many SMNs shares and feedbacks, Odowla even gave some nice Maths and ideas to us, 14 164 lectures during the last 5 days for 16 pages of constructive arguments.
And still no answer from a Community Rep. You guys were actually very quick to answer at posts like :
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...n-we-have-this
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...hin-needs-love.
Come on guys :p don't be shy, at least give us some hopes for future as a SMN before some of us just consider switching to another job...

The issue with the Summoner is SE wants them to be utility based without giving them any utilities to use or giving them a massive amount of dps to compensate for their lack of utility. Bard because of the group utility they have will always have a spot in a Raid Summoner not so. All the utility that the Summoner brings virus, e4e, heavy and battle rez a Scholar brings as well and overshadows the Summoner. Eye for an Eye and Virus can also be cross classed so the Summoner's utility becomes pointless. Since Summoner and Scholar share the same class it's impossible to move the Summoner into more of a utility role without being dominated and stripped naked by the Scholar. To make the Summoner into a utility Dps role would require a complete overhaul of the job or make a Advanced Summoner Job. Since no one wants to wait till 3.0 to see what becomes of the Summoner a band aide would be to buff the Summoner's Dps so statics can justify bringing them into FCOB.

Bump for dev response. Maybe we'll get a response in the Live Letter? Either way, please do something devs. Do we really have to sit here keep debating and bringing up stuff everyday like this to get a response? o.O

Im not mad at all, as stated im sad, and mad at myself for not leveling something else sooner to take over the class that I love. My group as of right now is at a disadvantage because Im a summoner. Summoners are quickly becoming the puppet master of 14. We have zero place in raids as it stands right now.

We dont have the support that warrents the dps. This class is hard to play with no benefit. Yea im not far behind other dps 30-40 points from the pack, but I have to play perfectly to obtain that while watching others make mistakes and blow me out of the water.

battle rez you say? With what mana? The DPS checks are so on 13 that summoner cant afford to rez.

What are the devs supposed to respond to here? You can't spam ruin II over and over and over and......and not expect to run out of mp. I've never had a mp issue. If I feel I'm even getting remotely "low" a simple Energy Drain + Aetherflow and I'm back up to 90% or more. Ruin II is best used to take off that last 3-4% of mob hp. Otherwise, you should use Ruin I.

This thread has no validating points because THE ONLY way to burn mp is by spamming Ruin II. The class is not supposed to be played that way.

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Originally Posted by kuikui

What are the devs supposed to respond to here? You can't spam ruin II over and over and over and......and not expect to run out of mp. I've never had a mp issue. If I feel I'm even getting remotely "low" a simple Energy Drain + Aetherflow and I'm back up to 90% or more. Ruin II is best used to take off that last 3-4% of mob hp. Otherwise, you should use Ruin I.

This thread has no validating points because THE ONLY way to burn mp is by spamming Ruin II. The class is not supposed to be played that way.

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Did a real quick check of your achievements because it's pretty obvious with that kind of thought process you aren't experienced. Lo and behold, you haven't done T5, much less T10+ where the people who know what they're talking about are complaining, and you think you can comment on current SMN MP issues.

As has been said many times in this thread ... Ruin II spam is not the issue. Being dumb is not the issue. SMN will run out of MP in 4 minutes if you're playing conservative, more if you go extra conservative and hurt your DPS even further. Final coil fights are up to 10 minutes long without breaks (slight breaks here or there in 12 and 13, but you'll be dry due to other reasons there), with multi-DoTing (which drains your MP even further than normal, significantly in fact). SMN simply can't keep up with BLM or the other DPS, who will actually have resources available to them and are quite able to do their higher-than-SMN-anyway DPS - SMN at this time will be just standing still skipping Ruins just to survive, or begging BRD for MP song which is basically a raid DPS loss.

There's a problem with SMN MP. Don't tell us otherwise.

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Originally Posted by kuikui

I've never had a mp issue. If I feel I'm even getting remotely "low" a simple Energy Drain + Aetherflow and I'm back up to 90% or more. Ruin II is best used to take off that last 3-4% of mob hp. Otherwise, you should use Ruin I.

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Energy drain restores what, 266 mp, aetherflow restores 596mp so thats total of 862 mp. If you are after those at 90%, you have total of 957 mp. Hows that even possible. I have more MP on my monk.

But seriously, Aetherflow is not up always, or then you are doing something wrong. Stacks should be used for festers (banes when multiple targets). If you use Energy drain, you lose 150 potency every time to restore 266mp which is enough for 2 dots/3 ruin's.
Ruin2 is best used in between bio/festers and while moving. Finishing last couple % doesnt matter if its dotted up, you can either just move on or hardcast ruin if it stays alive long enough.


MP problems werent that relevant before when fights had breaks/were short/didnt have multiple targets to dot so I can understand if you havent entered Final coils.
T10 its pretty much training dummy apart from times when u get targeted by Wild Charge and if you do Meteor during adds and all that mp saved from those is used when 4 targets are up, sure you can Bane so you only have to dot up 2 targets.
T11 same thing, long fight, 0 breaks. You get the point.

Anyway if you are saying u dont run out of MP, you are doing something wrong. I can do around 3.5mins on dummy before running out of mp and hving to wait for mp tick/aetherflow to come back.