Acceptable Cash Shop Items: Suggestions!

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiZero

I refuse to pay for any additional items. I'm already paying for a subscription. You want vanity items? Then let them release it with patches. Fantasia and name change/world transfer is borderline enough.

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Your subscription increases in value with every patch released and your subscription does not take into account the increasing server requirements to accommodate large and larger content, we should stop having the thought that paying a subscription = entitled to everything.

e.g you pay a monthly subscription for your internet, are you entitled to future additions of new technology or higher speed plans at no additional costs?

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Originally Posted by ReiszRie

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Tell me something. Who do you think runs a video game company?

If your answer is: game developers with a passion for creating fun games while also making a profit off of something they love doing. Then I'd have to tell you that it's no longer the 80s/90s or your outlook on the world is far too optimistic.

The correct answer is: CEOs that have no experience or knowledge of the video game industry prior to getting their job (because they worked in the packaged goods industry) who then ask the financial department for advice on the best course of action for the company to take but then are led astray because the people from the financial department have the exact same lack of experience and knowledge of the video game industry because they too worked in packaged goods before getting their job there. They don't think of what's best for the customer or the company, all they see are the top selling/most profitable games and try to imitate them as much as possible. The game developers have next to no power against these blind people leading them.

There are very few almost non-existent exceptions to that rule and SE is not one of the companies that is a exception.

Also do you know why P2P mmos are on the decline? It's because nearly every single new P2P mmo copies directly from WoW as if it's some magical check list to success. When that inevitably fails (if they survive long enough) they resort to double dipping their remaining customers to make up for the lost subscriptions with a cash shop which almost instantly destroys what little chance the game had left of surviving as a P2P game.

All it would take is a quick look at all the failed P2P mmos of the past 10 or so years to notice this pattern and see why not only that adding a cash shop to a P2P game is a horrible idea but it's also a horrible idea to copy WoW when it has become very obvious that its overly easy solo-centric gameplay is not the reason for its success.

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Originally Posted by Ikeda

Tell me something. Who do you think runs a video game company?

If your answer is: game developers with a passion for creating fun games while also making a profit off of something they love doing. Then I'd have to tell you that it's no longer the 80s/90s or your outlook on the world is far too optimistic.

The correct answer is: CEOs that have no experience or knowledge of the video game industry prior to getting their job (because they worked in the packaged goods industry) who then ask the financial department for advise on the best course of action for the company to take but then are led astray because the people from the financial department have the exact same lack of experience and knowledge of the video game industry because they too worked in packaged goods before getting their job there. They don't think of what's best for the customer or the company, all they see are the top selling/most profitable games and try to imitate them as much as possible. The game developers have next to no power against these blind people leading them.

There are very few almost non-existent exceptions to that rule and SE is not one of the companies that is a exception.

Also do you know why P2P mmos are on the decline? It's because nearly every single new P2P mmo copies directly from WoW as if it's some magical check list to success. When that inevitably fails (if they survive long enough) they resort to double dipping their remaining customers to make up for the lost subscriptions with a cash shop which almost instantly destroys what little chance the game had left of surviving as a P2P game.

All it would take is a quick look at all the failed P2P mmos of the past 10 or so years to notice this pattern and see why not only adding a cash shop to a P2P game is a horrible idea but it's also a horrible idea to copy WoW when it has become very obvious that its overly easy solo-centric gameplay is not the reason for its success.

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Tell me something, does game developers fill their stomachs with passion? would a game developer work for no pay? would customers buy and support a game just because it is ran and published by developers with a passion? unfortunately, nope, customers only buy a game if it is fun and many customers will only buy it if it has excellent visuals and other embellishments.

CEOs does something game developers cannot do, which is to feed them, if you think that CEOs are just sitting there doing nothing, you're rather naive.

Do you really think that all CEOs ignores the relevant product development team's input? if so, you're rather naive.

Do you really think that P2P MMOs are in decline because every MMOs copies from WoW? how many P2P MMOs are self funded? as in not reliant on investor's money?

You're making everything so simplistic, as if there are only a couple of variables to the success and failure of a MMO.

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Originally Posted by ReiszRie

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Because it is a simple matter that you and other cash shop enthusiasts just keep ignoring. As I've said a million freaking times. People play P2P mmos to avoid cash shops. It may not apply to you or a few others but the vast majority of people who play P2P mmos do it because they feel they're getting the full game for a consistent fee rather than feeling nickle and dimed for every little piece of content. Every P2P mmo that has failed that had a cash shop had somewhere between a few hundred thousand to 2 million subscribers. FFXIV has somewhere between a few hundred thousand to 2 million subscribers. WoW (the only P2P mmo to survive with a cash shop) has about 7-8 million subscribers (used to have more) and is slowly bleeding subscribers with each passing year. It's all in the freaking numbers.

Also you bringing up those other mmos being funded by investors instead of being self funded just pretty much blew a hole in your and other cash shop enthusiast's argument for cash shops. Back when they were preparing for ARR's launch in a interview Yoshi P brought up that point about the other mmos when asked about a cash shop or going F2P. He said since FFXIV is self funded they can rely solely on the steady long term income of a monthly fee without having to even consider a cash shop or going F2P because they don't have investors breathing down their backs wanting their money quickly. So once again this entire thread is freaking pointless.

Another thing you need to remember. YOU don't work for SE and neither do the other cash shop enthusiasts. So what possible reason could you have for even suggesting a cash shop? You won't profit from it and no matter how much you scream "but but but SE will be liek the one company to do the right thing and use the extra profit to update the game faster :D" over and over it isn't going to make it true. If anything your way of thinking is the one that's naive.

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Originally Posted by Skull_Angel

We all know adding P2W elements to a cash shop will negatively effect a game's community, but why/how will adding aesthetic options?

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No, we all know adding things YOU want has a negative impact on the game, while adding things YOU don't care about is fine. This is the only truth about cash shops. People don't mind other people suffering, but themselves? UNACCEPTABLE!

I repeat what I've said before. A cash shop may only sell time saving items.
- Like Fantasia that lets you skip recreating your character and regrinding the game.
- Like server transfer that allows you to skip recreating your character etc.
- But also selling endgame gear. Not the newest and best, but the old endgame gear that only people left behind still need.
- Also selling experience points / levels is acceptable.

If the game hadn't been multiplayer, even selling gold would have been fine. But due to economics that would not work out.

No P2W, no P2Enjoy, just P2Catchup

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

- But also selling endgame gear. Not the newest and best, but the old endgame gear that only people left behind still need.
- Also selling experience points / levels is acceptable.

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No these are not acceptable.

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Originally Posted by Ikeda

Because it is a simple matter that you and other cash shop enthusiasts just keep ignoring. As I've said a million freaking times. People play P2P mmos to avoid cash shops. It may not apply to you or a few others but the vast majority of people who play P2P mmos do it because they feel they're getting the full game for a consistent fee rather than feeling nickle and dimed for every little piece of content. Every P2P mmo that has failed that had a cash shop had somewhere between a few hundred thousand to 2 million subscribers. FFXIV has somewhere between a few hundred thousand to 2 million subscribers. WoW (the only P2P mmo to survive with a cash shop) has about 7-8 million subscribers (used to have more) and is slowly bleeding subscribers each passing year. It's all in the freaking numbers.

Also you bringing up those other mmos being funded by investors instead of self funded just pretty much blew a hole in your and other cash shop enthusiast's argument for cash shops. Back when they were preparing for ARR's launch in a interview Yoshi P brought up that point about the other mmos when asked about a cash shop or going F2P. He said since FFXIV is self funded they can rely solely on the steady long term income of a monthly fee without having to even consider a cash shop or going F2P because they don't have investors breathing down their backs wanting their money quickly. So once again this entire thread is freaking pointless.

Another thing you need to remember. YOU don't work for SE and neither do the other cash shop enthusiasts. So what possible reason could you have for even suggesting a cash shop? You won't profit from it and no matter how much you scream "but but but SE will be liek the one company to do the right thing and use the extra profit to update the game faster :D" over and over it isn't going to make it true. If anything your way of thinking is the one that's naive.

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It is a simple matter that you and other "corporations are evil" people just keep ignoring. As I've said a million freaking times.

People don't play P2P MMOs to avoid cash shops, I play P2P MMOs for a steady stream of content patches, there you go, you only speak for yourself, you don't represent everyone, don't be disillusioned into thinking that you are a representative of players.

vast majority? statistics please.

every P2P MMO failed because of cash shop? that is funny, since most of those P2P MMOs failed before they had cash shops and cash shops are like a hail mary for them.

Yoshida statement was on cash shop? source please, AFAIK, it referred specifically to F2P model, as for the ability to maintain content patches, sure, but we're not talking about key content here, instead we're talking about content that might otherwise not be implemented because there isn't sufficient demand for them to justify the cost.

Seems like you're unable to really prove anything and are just hoping that people take your word for it, regardless of how inane it might have been.

I am a paying customer, I have as much rights to rebut your fear-mongering of "cash-shop = instant fail"

Instead of trying to put words I've never said in my mouth, perhaps try polishing your arguments? ;)

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Originally Posted by ReiszRie

It is a simple matter that you and other "corporations are evil" people just keep ignoring. As I've said a million freaking times.

People don't play P2P MMOs to avoid cash shops, I play P2P MMOs for a steady stream of content patches, there you go, you only speak for yourself, you don't represent everyone, don't be disillusioned into thinking that you are a representative of players.

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I play p2p titles to avoid cash shops.

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Originally Posted by Kerberon

I play p2p titles to avoid cash shops.

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Indeed, you speak for yourself, you don't represent everyone or even the vast majority for that matter.

*my mistake, I had thought you were Ikeda.

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Originally Posted by ReiszRie

Indeed, you speak for yourself, you don't represent everyone or even the vast majority for that matter.

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Oddly enough, neither do you.