with this mindset the future looks dim

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Originally Posted by dannycookies

If you're not going to make the effort to watch a video or read a guide, why should your group make the effort to explain the mechanics?

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Before guides and videos, there was an actual team or two that downed the trial/event/dungeons. (how did they make it without watching a vid or reading a guide? omgz impossibluuuu they don't exist, it's SE that puts the guides after 2 weeks..)

And we have to play with you guys, seriously?

Sigh..

Look at it this way - you come home from work and you only have about 3 hours to play before you're off to bed. Your goal is clear turn 4 that night, maybe do a couple atma fates, gather a map etc. Instead you join this turn 4 where a bunch of people go "lol first time no idea what I'm doing". So now you spent your little free time that you have trying to teach newbies on what to do when you had other plans for your gaming time that evening.

So by you saying they are inconsiderate, you are also being inconsiderate because you don't know what their situation is. Don't assume everyone who rages like that is some guy who sits on his butt 12 hours a day and is just a jerk for no reason. Obviously his insults were uncalled for and you can report him, but if I was in his position I'd just bow out, and take the penalty because I don't have time to teach newbies from scratch during my short play hours after a long work day.

Similarly, I look up guides/videos before I go into new things because I don't want to be THAT GUY who is a landmine that wastes everyone's time.

tl;dr: its ok to be new, but don't be ignorant.

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

Before guides and videos, there was an actual team or two that downed the trial/event/dungeons. (how did they make it without watching a vid or reading a guide? omgz impossibluuuu they don't exist, it's SE that puts the guides after 2 weeks..)

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typically people like that will take days off of work to raid 8-10 hours a day to clear content/reach world firsts and have more time on their hands than those who learned from a guide and just want to play a couple hours a night.

What I don't understand is why people are complaining that he asked for some information. Would you of preferred he just pulled and wiped everyone several times without any questions.

In T4 people do it differently and in duty finder you get different party setups with varying amounts of melee and magic dps which would require some level of communication before the fight anyway. Things such as tanks facing dreadnaught in or out who is main tank who is offtank killing knights and soldiers before the 2nd dreadnaught etc.. Surely while preparing these most of the fight would of been explained away to him anyway. As main tank all you have to do is pick up dreadnaughts most of the fight. Eg: put down a marker and say stand here pull knight/soldier, place dreadnaught here face that way. Would of passed T4 in no more than a few wipes assuming you are adequately geared.

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Originally Posted by Rosy

This has to be the most toxic, juvenile community I have ever witnessed in any mmo...well WoW comes close. I feel it's coming from the console people who have never played MMOs but only first person shooter type games, where kids and bad manners are rife.

We need to teach these people that manners actually matter and that tantrums and rudeness will not be tolerated, who knows, it may even teach them some useful life skills :)

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how true that is, but unfortunately kids these days are raised by games and tv.

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

Before guides and videos, there was an actual team or two that downed the trial/event/dungeons. (how did they make it without watching a vid or reading a guide? omgz impossibluuuu they don't exist, it's SE that puts the guides after 2 weeks..)

And we have to play with you guys, seriously?

Sigh..

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That last comment is so hypocritical its hilarious.

Yes, there was a an actual team, A group of people who know each/are in a static/fc and know that being the first one will require wipes.
On the other hand we now have a bunch of randoms getting thrown into a group by pure chance into content that has been out for ages.

If you cannot see the difference here i dunno what to say.

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Originally Posted by DarkStaoneDragon

well let me see if I can explain this in a way that's understandable, I can watch a video for 15 hours, but I'll forget the whole thing, I learn much faster doing things first hand, with that said I just might forget about being "Rude" by asking what I need to expect in the fight.

Edit: I'll also NEVER go in as a tank first time since I have MNK now

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You'e completely exaggerating, though. That's not helping anybody. I didn't spend 15 hours watching videos either, but I did do a quick search on "Garuda Strat" before I went into that trial. It helped a LOT - because I had a vague idea beforehand what I could expect and as a result, I actually ended up being the TEACHER of the others in my party.


Look, no one can force you to be a better player. If you want to throw your body at a boss 99 times and drag your whole party down because you think 5 minutes on Youtube is somehow the equivalent of 15 hours spent outside of the game and isn't worth it, fine. But expect comments like the one posted where someone is exasperated at the complete lack of awareness other people display. Courtesy extends in both directions, not just on the side of the newb.

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

Look at it this way - you come home from work and you only have about 3 hours to play before you're off to bed. Your goal is clear turn 4 that night, maybe do a couple atma fates, gather a map etc. Instead you join this turn 4 where a bunch of people go "lol first time no idea what I'm doing".

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This is why you have PF, so you can set up a party with exp peoples. Why the hell are you going into DF for lol?
You get anyone from everyone by jumping into DF. Make your own PT.
Even then, you may have trouble and some slip ups because not everyone's perfect! -____-
I use DF and brave the storm I guess. I don't care if we have a few wipes here and there.
I make sure I have time for stuff like that instead of crying about it.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

If it's needed to look up, why isn't it in the game?

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What game walks you through solutions for its end game raids?

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

Look at it this way - you come home from work and you only have about 3 hours to play before you're off to bed. Your goal is clear turn 4 that night, maybe do a couple atma fates, gather a map etc. Instead you join this turn 4 where a bunch of people go "lol first time no idea what I'm doing". So now you spent your little free time that you have trying to teach newbies on what to do when you had other plans for your gaming time that evening.

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A counter-point. You come home from work, have 3 hours to play (ok, aside, yeesh. I work 8 hours a day, make dinner, do laundry whatever and still have at least 6 hours. Then again, I also only sleep 5-6 hours...maybe I need help) and you just want to relax. Instead of making your goal to clear T4 that night, your goal is to clear T4 at some point in the future.You don't want to look up videos because they don't really help you, and you'd rather just learn through gameplay.

Honestly, I'd use PF for that. I wouldn't touch DF at all. But my point is, different people have different goals. I could have said your goal was to farm T4 for a specific piece. You would probably not rely on DF for that. I guess the argument is really about DF in general. Using PF or a static, you can pretty much avoid this issue altogether.

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Originally Posted by Luxx

This is why you have PF, so you can set up a party with exp peoples. Why the hell are you going into DF for lol?
You get anyone from everyone by jumping into DF. Make your own PT.
Even then, you may have trouble and some slip ups because not everyone's perfect! -____-
I use DF and brave the storm I guess. I don't care if we have a few wipes here and there.
I make sure I have time for stuff like that instead of crying about it.

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This is a very self-centered arguement, and works from both end. Players who support watching videos could easily say - "That's what party finder's for - to make learning parties. When I go into duty finder, I expect to find people who know the fight."

In the end, this is no different than the whole cutscene skipping debate. People who feel they are entitled to 'play the game the way they want' will ultimately do what they want. But a little respect -from both ends- goes a far way. It's far more respectful to watch a video before diving into new content - even if just once - just so you're aware of what you will be seeing. Saying "Hey I watched the video but this is my first time" shows a lot more commitment than "This is my first time what do I need to know?" Showing that you didn't even -google- a text version of the fight, but want people to type out all the mechanics for you. If you can't even pay the basest of respects and watch a video once, do not expect respect and hand holding to be lavished on you - people will call you what you are: Lazy.