Sorry SE, but endgame won't work if you don't fix something.

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Originally Posted by Shaone

...I think there are probably bigger prizes available for anyone who can prove it's possible to exceed light speed. Of course there is latency, it's the fundamental part of communications.

But I think there is some truth to the fact that the problems are between users and SE, and not directly on the server. I had massive lag, big spikes, rubberbanding everywhere, Titan was guaranteed death... and my ISP has been doing their best but so far no fix. So in the mean time, I'm using a proxy and apart from a few random 90k in instances (which doesn't seem to be related to the proxy, in game chat still works whilst disconnecting), I haven't had any of the problems I had before.

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I believe the bet is to prove that latency in this game is equivalent to other games.

You don't have to exceed light speed. You just have to compensate for human reaction time and work around conventional methods of packet sending. There's also methods that do checks later and roll back if necessary and in a non-intrusive way. In this game, the lag is in your face in a way that affects game-play mechanics.

No one in Starcraft, League of Legends, WoW, Terra, etc complain that there's systemic, built in lag, for everyone. No one in those games complain that responsiveness is a real problem. In SC - no one blames your lack of micro on lag. In Terra, when you get out of the AOE, you know you're out of the AOE. Imagine trying to do Alistar headbutt pulverize combo in this game.

I have no problem dodging anything. But I acknowledge that I can be out of the circle for .5 seconds and still get hit. I can dodge in this game because the requirements are lenient.

Think of it this way:

It's like asking to turn in a homework assignment when it hasn't been assigned.

Yes - you can deal with it. You can learn about the disposition of the teacher and just do everything in the textbook.

Yes - you can dodge it. You can make friends with the teacher and not turn it in. You can ask one of your overachieving friends and copy off of them.

But is it fair?

What if you just transferred to the class? What if you have to work part time to support your family, and just simply don't have the time to do everything in the textbook? What if, in the future, the teacher decides to put something in there that is totally unexpected?

SE currently thinks it's fair.

It's something I would like to be fixed. Or at least acknowledged.

In any game other than FF14, if you got out of an AE 0.01s before it's done, you'd be confident to say that you dodged the AE.

In FF14, it's the other way around. You'd be very confident to say that you did NOT dodged the AE.

You can work around the fact that the castbar is essentially wrong, but why display a crucial piece of information (casting time) if it's just flat out wrong for all practical purposes? As is right now you might as put a message like "Titan is now casting WotL" on the screen instead of a bar. People who can dodge it will still dodge it, and people who can't dodge it still won't dodge it. It might even be better because then at least you wouldn't have people who claim they dodged something when there's no castbar to measure against.

I 100% agree with this thread. I'm having this problem since I started playing about a month ago.
It's never been TOO frustrating, but now I'm in the process of fighting Titan for my relic, and there's a 50% chance Weight of The Land will hit me even if I'm completely off the circle.

It's SO ANNOYING.

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Originally Posted by Astarica

People who can dodge it will still dodge it, and people who can't dodge it still won't dodge it. It might even be better because then at least you wouldn't have people who claim they dodged something when there's no castbar to measure against.

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I will actually disagree with that claim. If everything was true to screen, and they didn't make the cast longer or anything, but only sync'd the cast bar and the aoe indicator with the cast bar, and when you moved out of it you were truly out of it, I think a lot more people would successfully dodge. I would even wager that many DF pugs would down Titan. Most people die to Landslide and Weight of the Land. Both have about 2 seconds cast time.. that is a long time to dodge.

Right now though, not only do you have the server not correctly noting the player's position, but the cast bar will often show up late (let's assume .3 seconds, though as latency gets higher, the time gets later), the cast bar can also seem to cut short and disappear early (we'll assume another .3 seconds). That's .6 seconds off the cast bar immediately, which is more than 1/4th the actual time you get to dodge, doesn't include the lag to player position updates, and is a large chunk of time in the heat of the moment by itself. There are also those that can dodge at 50% of the cast bar and still get hit, which shouldn't ever happen in an MMO.

Once things on the screen are true, and being out of an AOE means you're actually out, I think a lot more people will be dodging successfully. Yes, some players still won't, they have those players in every game, but based on pugs from any MMO I've played (including this one when the fight isn't Titan), I think most people will dodge. Now, Titan is probably still going to be a bit difficult because of players derping the WotL placement after the heart, but that's a different issue entirely.

I apologize if I took what you said in the wrong way, but the way it was worded read as everything in the game is dodge-able right now for everyone, and the only reason people are failing is because of skill, when that really isn't the case. Some people's indicators are so delayed that they flat out can't get out of an AOE regardless of how quickly they move, and the only way to dodge some of the skills seems to be to know when they are coming up ahead of time and move pre-emptively. That's not something people should have to do considering Yoshi himself has stated he wants the on-screen stuff to be accurate.

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Originally Posted by Sunarie

I will actually disagree with that claim. If everything was true to screen, and they didn't make the cast longer or anything, but only sync'd the cast bar and the aoe indicator with the cast bar, and when you moved out of it you were truly out of it, I think a lot more people would successfully dodge. I would even wager that many DF pugs would down Titan. Most people die to Landslide and Weight of the Land. Both have about 2 seconds cast time.. that is a long time to dodge.

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What I mean is that lag in this game is so consistent, it basically functions the same as if the cast time is simply shorter. If WotL is 2.0s to cast, you might as well think of it as if it's just 1.4s. Therefore ultimately skill does determine whether you'll dodge it or not. If WoW needs to duplicate the exact difficulty of FF14, they'd just use a 1.4s casting spell, and if you can't dodge 2.0s in WotL, you still won't dodge 1.4 (without lag) in WoW.

Of course, then we got to ask what's the point of having a castbar if a significant portion of that bar isn't even there. I think that's the issue that makes people angry. In WoW if you have an ultra fast casting AE, people will get hit by it but they will see they clearly weren't able to escape on time. In FF14 you basically have the false hope with a fake castbar that makes you think you dodged something, except the castbar is wrong. This is actually pretty consistent, like I pretty much always know if I beat an AE or not. There's no randomness involved once you get the timing down. You will pretty much always know when you beat the AE and when you did not. Right now, even eliminating the castbar would be an improvement, as without a castbar, at least nobody would be tricked into thinking they dodged something. It's not like the current castbar tells you anything useful against an ability like WotL. All it does is make people angry by displaying false information.

hmmmmmmmmmm

The lag is not that consistent though. You can tell this by how different people are able to get to different points in a cast while moving. Some only get 300ms into a cast before it breaks, some get 800ms, and some people are able to finish 1000ms casts while moving.

The latency issue is killer and should have been fixed like yesterday. We can fashion all the work arounds we want, but the fact that we as a player-base are forced to in order to clear content is unacceptable in a contemporary MMO. Period. I'm unsure whose idea it was to code this game in crayon and then decide to make the mechanics severely punishing to anyone who lives more than two blocks from a data centre... but they're terrible.

Disclaimer: I live in Australia and have cleared 4 relics (twice as healer). The first two were on an NA server, the most recent ones on Masamune. I have a shitty laptop and am on wireless. But you're right, I'm a bad player if I acknowledge there's a problem.

After clearing all the PvE content, I've had enough time with the game and enough experience to make my final call. This games network code is atrocious and extremely unreliable, unresponsive, and clunky feeling mess. Despite this, I still like the game, but damnit--to deal with this extremely pervasive problem really puts a dampener on my enjoyment of the game.

Simply doing things such as clicking, "Ok" on the UI comes with a noticeably laggy response, it's everywhere in everything. The PvE encounter design is great, but they demand twitch, reactive, predictive based game play, and at the same time the game is unreliable and laggy. I still squarely base blame on my self for any mistakes and I just needed to compensate more, more. I can say for sure that while some people might not be able to compensate for this, the games netcode and associated problems are at best, extremely unintuitive and unsettling. I can perfectly understand why people get hit, and it is not entirely their fault

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Originally Posted by SenoritaAmarys

After clearing all the PvE content, I've had enough time with the game and enough experience to make my final call. This games network code is atrocious and extremely unreliable, unresponsive, and clunky feeling mess. Despite this, I still like the game, but damnit--to deal with this extremely pervasive problem really puts a dampener on my enjoyment of the game.

Simply doing things such as clicking, "Ok" on the UI comes with a noticeably laggy response, it's everywhere in everything. The PvE encounter design is great, but they demand twitch, reactive, predictive based game play, and at the same time the game is unreliable and laggy. I still squarely base blame on my self for any mistakes and I just needed to compensate more, more. I can say for sure that while some people might not be able to compensate for this, the games netcode and associated problems are at best, extremely unintuitive and unsettling. I can perfectly understand why people get hit, and it is not entirely their fault

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Very well put.