Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

There is some irony here that you seem to be getting a bit defensive over my post which had absolutely no ill-intentions. I was just trying to explain why they may have reacted the way they did, and how it can look from the outside. People don't always enjoy having their actions called out, or advice given when not asked for.

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I'm well aware of this i'm not being defensive I just find that you said "let it be" which is what most people do and leads to players not wanting to be vocal or letting them do their own thing which in turn leads them going into groups where people expect their own level of play. I was just stating why in a lvl 70 dungeon, at least for me, this isn't acceptable as not only did I get flamed for trying to help someone because sometimes I can't help myself and I wanna see people improve, but i also got kicked so it kind of sucks.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Some additional points.

-Yes, communication is key. You failed at it, they failed it, was a team effort all around
-No, I am not defending poor game play, however, I give most players the benefit of the doubt, especially on trivial things like 70 dungeons
-Don't pester your party members. Yes, give advice if you want, but you're not going to be able to force anyone to accept it. Repeatedly harping on members within the first 5 minutes will annoy people.
-If you are that unhappy with your party members, you have the option to leave. I'd assume most people just get through it, but hey, to each their own.

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-Yes I agree everyone failed with communication I won't deny that I wish there was more but what can you do I know I at least tried.

-I never said you did but letting things be while people are not doing the basics at least to me is very frustrating and I do give people the benefit of the doubt but when I have threat, CDs popped, i'm watching what the parties doing, yes the 70 dungeons are trivial but I want effort which I feel is lacking in most content, not just max lvl.

-I can see how it is pestering but I apologized to them numerous times while trying to state I want to help them I get not everyone wants help but I want people to acknowledge it I honestly should have left but I wanted to see what I could do to help in any way, i'm not a mind reader there's no tone on the internet.

-Why should I have to leave when 2 of them basically have me being kicked anyways? Should I stay silent and let the run take longer while letting these guys struggle when they have the tools to make it easier? I at least tried to help that's honestly it but yeah to each their own you have your own way of playing and I have mine that's just it at the end of the day.

I'm just cursed with bad sirensongs when I do roulette on tank. 3 sprout party and they were all together.

They... were job potion users. SCH didnt have broil, indom, etc. The MCH may as well been doing nothing because their TP was always full (was forced to split the pull after the second boss). Monk seemed... okay? Though the MCH and MNK both had job potion gear on.

And the rewards for my alright albeit slow run? Being called an ass for telling them to do their job quests not even impolitely. This community sometimes...

So a story from a couple nights ago. Im sitting in town trying to decide what to do(think i was waiting on an ARR timed node), and i notice that the AiN bonus for leveling has shifted to DPS. A cluster while i wait? Sure, why not! Que takes a couple mins, because DPS que. Hit accept, load in to... Aurum Vale. I didnt save chat logs, but the tank immediately says something like "fml 15 mins til we can abandon" while the other DPS(sam) says "the things i do for a cluster". So we're chatting at the entrance, and the tank is certain that they dont want the repair bill. But since everyone seems to talk like they know what theyre doing, we get the tank to try the first room. We basically clear the middle part and get enough mobs out of the way to get to the first boss. No deaths, and just the normal minor aggro issues you can see when the DPS outgear the tank on a trash pull. We sit outside the boss room for a min before starting the fight - the tank keeps updating on the time remaining and is in no hurry at all. Finally jump in. Fight goes... not super well. The healer picked a fruit outside of healing range, and things kinda went to hell. Wipe. Take two. We run back. Tank is dragging their feet even more. While waiting, i examine my party members. Samurai? Multiple level 70s, current gear, seems to be doing everything right, and has mentor crown on. Healer(whm)? Current class at level 56(maybe a couple in the teens too), gear is a mix of 90s and on down to some pitifully bad jewelry. Tank(really wish i could remember class)? Current class at 50(nothing else of note), gear infinitely worse then the healers - level 46 weapon, maybe one piece of armor higher then that, several pieces at least 15 levels old, and some jewelry that has never been upgraded since level 1. It takes a couple mins, but we coax the tank into the boss fight again. This time im paying more attention to the others, and not just making sure that i dont screw up. Healer picks a closer fruit, we get mostly through the fight, but healer is starting to pull aggro near the end and this ends in a wipe. Run back. Tank is clearly just waiting to vote for abandon, sits down outside the boss line. Me and the samurai start coaching. In the next couple mins we cover what the healer should do and what the tank should do. Tank isnt getting up. His mental countdown hits 0, abandon pops up on screen. Sam insists he wont abandon since he only joined for cluster(i feel the same way - we made real progress and i felt we should get it next try). Vote fails. We keep talking, find out the healer came back recently and is still kinda rusty. Over the next few mins we get into role skills, and all sorts of other topics to help him improve. Every couple mins tank tries another abandon vote, it fails. They move a couple feet, sit back down. Not talking to us anymore. At the 32 min mark, either the sam or healer pops up a vote dismiss, and it passes. New tank is the same class, but its obvious after the first fight he needs no coaching and i dont have to look up his levels or gear. Breeze through the entire rest of the dungeon in a little under 10 mins, chatting the rest of the way(oh do i miss flare/foul when synced to 49).

Im thinking about reporting the tank the whole time we're sitting there talking plus immediately after the run, but ultimately dont(one of the others might have - not sure). He was pouting, he was making it worse then it had to be, and i kinda doubt he took any of our advice to heart(we focused mostly on the healer when he stopped responding). But we did make him wait more then 30 mins to get out, when he could have just immediately left and had a shorter penalty. Plus two deaths worth of repair bill(with cheap gear like he had how expensive could repairs possibly even be? how is that an issue for people?) for basically nothing. Tank guy, if youre reading this you really should upgrade your gear(and maybe do your class quests?). AV isnt the most popular dungeon, but you were so sure it would go poorly that you made it worse. A positive attitude would have been enough to get through if youd taken our advice like the healer did. If youd been on my server, id have offered to pay your stupid repair bill(really, just to make you a better set of gear alltogether) - but alas you were not. And finally, if you really dont want to do a specific instance, why would you wait until you could abandon? Just leave, eat the penalty, and move on.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

The hilarious takeaway in all of this is the "have fun waiting in queue"

Yeah, cuz tanks "wait" for DF lvling roulette. HUEHUEHUE

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Adding to the hilarity. They even failed trolling since it's usually the last boss kick if you want to piss someone off like I suspect that healer thought they were doing.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I'm sure you meant well, so please don't take this the wrong way, but you tried to offer advice not once, nor twice, not thrice, but 4 times....all before the first boss was dead. I think it's perfectly fine to offer up a tidbit if things are going horribly, but you have to gauge the party and their reactions. If you had no response, maybe just leave it be. After the WHM got snippy, that should have been a 2nd flag to just leave it. I can see how 4 comments along those lines would have been coming off as pushy/annoying.

Viewing this with healer eyes, it always irks me a tiny bit when the tank just declares they're going to pull big without asking the party. It just has the air of "I'm going to do what I want regardless if the rest of you can keep up". Bit of an exaggeration there, but it's just one of those weird things with me. As you mentioned, everyone is signing up for group play when you enter a dungeon. Maybe the healer is rusty/new/not confident with big pulls yet. Perhaps the DPS has been struggling with their AoE rotation. A quick "Hey, mind if I pull big?" may work better than just "I'm pulling big".

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I'm sorry, but no. Why should it be left alone when the SAM is basically looking for a carry? There is nothing pushy about asking DPS to aoe large pulls when their sole responsibility is dealing high damage. They got annoyed because someone wasn't willing to simply let them get a free pass.

And people typically adhere to a standard. It's more common nowadays than perhaps ever for tanks to pull large if not everything in sight. Therefore, anyone who wishes to deviate from that standard needs to communication lest everyone else assumes it's just another standard, "pull everything" Expert like every other one they've done.
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As for my own story. Brace yourselves we're heading into Savage pug Country!

Friend asked if I would help them with a o5s page run. Fortunately we have a party of mostly friends or acquaintances but still needed another DPS and two healers. We end up with a WHM/AST. Everything is going well enough... until the tank/healer aoe. The AST puts out precisely zero shields. We all manage to eat the huge amount of damage because the WAR at the quick foresight to buff their Shake It Off, though barely.

This proceeds to be a consistent problem.

Head On? No shields
Pulsing aoes? No shields
DPS marked with green aoe? No shields (Or heals whatsoever)

Perhaps the most tragic thing of all was when I watched the AST royal road Balance for an enhanced Bole.

At some point the WHM got snippy about DPS being greedy despite them... dying at least once per pull. Even when the DPS did disengage for Head On; and tried to align themselves to get knocked against the far wall, they both died due to straight not getting healed.

When we finally did manage a clear out of this mess. I decided to look at casters. One Aspected Benefic and four Aspected Helios in an almost eight minute fight. To the shock of absolutely no one. It turns out the AST had only ever cleared on SMN once yet said nothing of this despite joining a page run party.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

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I'd report the tank....and honestly I'm surprised you didn't vote kick sooner. You're more paitent then I am.

In fact I'd tell the tank to leave....period. If your going to damn the party by announcing you have no intention of finishing..why bother sticking around.
And I really don't see why the big huff about AV....yes..its annoying...yes...its frustrating...but its a good dungeon...its fun...teaches you tactics...strategy..teamwork.

Something the tank obviously lacks seriously so.
Kudo's to you sticking around in the middle of that mess.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

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Definitely report them. It's one thing if they want to leave and eat their penalty, but it's another when they stand around spamming Vote Abandon so they get out scout free.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

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cause he dont want too wait 30 minutes he knew you guys was going too fail in he was right if i was the tank i would afk forcing you too kick me since you guys refuse too abandon a hopeless mission.

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Originally Posted by Godofhealing

cause he dont want too wait 30 minutes he knew you guys was going too fail in he was right if i was the tank i would afk forcing you too kick me since you guys refuse too abandon a hopeless mission.

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And this right here is bad advice. It's only a hopeless mission if you just give up and don't want to listen to what sounded like good advice from other players so everybody in the party could get a smooth run in. This is called being selfish. And based on what you've written, grounds for being reported if you ever did that to anybody in a party. Stuff like this is looked down upon in instanced content for a reason.

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Originally Posted by Godofhealing

cause he dont want too wait 30 minutes he knew you guys was going too fail in he was right if i was the tank i would afk forcing you too kick me since you guys refuse too abandon a hopeless mission.

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And because of this, I would purposely look up a youtube video, set my character to auto run and lock you in the dungeon until 90 minutes passed or you took your penalty.

You don't get to decide for three other people whether the "mission" is hopeless. If you feel it is, you can leave. You (and they) simply wanted to avoid getting a 30 minute penalty. Adding insult to injury, this tank apparently had level 1 gear despite being level 50, thus had no business complaining when his gear caused their second wipe.

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Originally Posted by Godofhealing

cause he dont want too wait 30 minutes he knew you guys was going too fail in he was right if i was the tank i would afk forcing you too kick me since you guys refuse too abandon a hopeless mission.

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I hope to catch you doing this one day.... I'd love to be the fly on the wall when the GM slaps you.
It's people like you that make this game bad for sprouts all around.
If your not going to do the dungeon...leave....don't bother committing unless your ready to do the duty.