Bard - they broke my job

Ok so quick question on general rotation. Correct me if im wrong. With every filler "rotation" 18s w/o EMp arrow. Should i be getting 5 or 6 HS? Assuming I IJ/SS. Im asking becuase im seeing ss uptime lower then my own and assuming people are clipping a final HS before SS again.

Thanks for the write up I learned some new tricks.

After doing some research I found that in a pefect situation you can indeed get 6 shots off but most times 5 is what I've seen. Agood goal is 5.

@Junified
I really do get that you want advice and to learn which is what the community should be about (wrong thread mind you) however
and if you do not want to get critiqued by saying "Bard is by far the least mobile class"
well that is by far completely false, and also other classes are believe it or not punished more if you mess up.
Level and play blm @60 and you may change your opinion.

I believe Rice has more or less been accurate on what the real issues are with Bard.

ok in all seriousness what is current optimal dps brd rotation?

All of the homework I've been doing has paid off. To answer the question above.
Dot EMP,hs>3sec IJ,SS, repeat.
When you have buffs up align HE with B4B(use this right before IJ, and again when buffs are at around 3sec.
Prioritize Bloodletter over hs if they are both up.
This the most optimal way to get the most out your buffs.
Combo EMP with ss procs if they are both up emp>ss.
These are the basics of the rotation during an encounter.

im not even sure why are bards complaining... we are in a good spot atm, not perfect though.
In terms of movement we can stutter step really well, better then a BLM but worse the a MCH or a SMN
Minuet scalability with gear is insanely good, and having Bloodletter/RoD as oGCD insta cast while minuet is godsend.
We should be focusing on the QoL changes, to make the class more desirable.
I wish for some of the following changes:
*Straigther shot proc fix.
*1.5sec cast time for all songs. (MCH can ogcd theirs...)
*Remove wardens paeon or rework it totally to a foes for melee.
*Give us more movement options like MCH have with qReload and Reload, instead of praying to RNGesus for a straighter shot proc.
*Let Barrage Crit

In terms of rotation the only things that feels out of place & clunky is hard cast empy on a normal oGCD which eats a few milliseconds of the next GCD.

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Originally Posted by KrietorSenpai

Straigther shot proc fix.

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SE could change it so the proc appears instantly after a Heavy Shot cast much like how Sharper Fang & Claw and Enhanced Wheeling Thrust proc.

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Originally Posted by KrietorSenpai

1.5sec cast time for all songs.

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To go further, songs could also be taken off the GCD and be given a 10s recast and have their cast time shortened to 1s like where Swiftsong is. That may be a bit much, but I'd say it's worth sitting on.

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Originally Posted by KrietorSenpai

Remove wardens paeon or rework it totally to a foes for melee.

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A physical version of Foe Requiem would be nice, but I think SE wants to marry Paean to the idea of it being a support spell. If that's the case, SE should take it off the GCD (keep it as a spell like Empyreal Arrow is an oGCD weaponskill instead of an ability), give it a 40s, 60s, or 120s recast, and have it prevent any ailments (that can be cleansed) during the 30s it is up on the designated party member.

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Originally Posted by KrietorSenpai

Give us more movement options like MCH have with qReload and Reload, instead of praying to RNGesus for a straighter shot proc.

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Boosting Heavier Shot's chance of proccing Straighter Shot to 25% would be a baby step in the right direction. Another step SE could take is to add a passive trait to Straight Shot when Minuet is active. This trait could be a "Swift Shot" proc, adding a 50% chance of the next Heavy Shot being an instant cast--100% chance if Straighter Shot is used.

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Originally Posted by KrietorSenpai

Let Barrage Crit

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THIS. It would help to make up for what Barrage used to be.

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Originally Posted by KrietorSenpai

In terms of rotation the only things that feels out of place & clunky is hard cast empy on a normal oGCD which eats a few milliseconds of the next GCD.

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That's really the only thing that makes the job feel clunky. This could be fixed by making the cast time instant, or at the very least reduce it to 1s before skill speed scaling.

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Originally Posted by SlyRoyale

To go further, songs could also be taken off the GCD and be given a 10s recast and have their cast time shortened to 1s like where Swiftsong is. That may be a bit much, but I'd say it's worth sitting on.

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There's absolutely no reason that you can't turn off the song if you have GCD on cooldown, they should at least fix that. Especially with how it still clips into your next cast time when you do try to turn it off. Aside from that, I'd rather them not homogenize the two classes even more if they can help it (and we need to weave in two different oGCDs to promote into a mana turret on an average basis, tyvm.)

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Originally Posted by SlyRoyale

A physical version of Foe Requiem would be nice, but I think SE wants to marry Paean to the idea of it being a support spell. If that's the case, SE should take it off the GCD (keep it as a spell like Empyreal Arrow is an oGCD weaponskill instead of an ability), give it a 40s, 60s, or 120s recast, and have it prevent any ailments (that can be cleansed) during the 30s it is up on the designated party member.

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You'd have to be careful of giving BRD a physical damage boost, because at that point you're throwing out MCH's only meaningful perk over BRD (the fact that they have a damage increase toward physical dps which barely breaks even against foe)

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Originally Posted by SlyRoyale

Boosting Heavier Shot's chance of proccing Straighter Shot to 25% would be a baby step in the right direction. Another step SE could take is to add a passive trait to Straight Shot when Minuet is active. This trait could be a "Swift Shot" proc, adding a 50% chance of the next Heavy Shot being an instant cast--100% chance if Straighter Shot is used.

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While I'm for all making BRD more motile, I'm not in for making both jobs motile. It'd homogenize their playstyle even moreso if they don't give MCH their own changes. I'm honestly fine with one job being motile and the other being non/semi motile, as long as the job functions as whole (which is more than what I can say for BRD atm). BLM and SMN can handle the diversity just fine by design and they're still competing with each other for raid slots (if not interchangable, since they share caster gear that some players actually play both)

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Originally Posted by SlyRoyale

THIS. It would help to make up for what Barrage used to be.

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While keeping everything in perspective, BRD doesn't need any more damage in comparison to MCH. From what I've seen, the two are pretty neck-to-neck as of right now, not factoring that their numbers can be boosted from debuffs (specifically, MCH's own physical debuff boosting themselves). Not to mention the only other skill that has a similar functionality is duality, which also does not allow for duplicated crits.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

There's absolutely no reason that you can't turn off the song if you have GCD on cooldown, they should at least fix that. Especially with how it still clips into your next cast time when you do try to turn it off. Aside from that, I'd rather them not homogenize the two classes even more if they can help it (and we need to weave in two different oGCDs to promote into a mana turret on an average basis, tyvm.)

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Like MNK's "Fist of Wind/Earth/Fire" abilities? They are on their own shared cooldown of 3s, so that would be a step in the right direction. Thing is, SE seems dead-set on having parity between BRD and MCH.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

You'd have to be careful of giving BRD a physical damage boost, because at that point you're throwing out MCH's only meaningful perk over BRD (the fact that they have a damage increase toward physical dps which barely breaks even against foe)

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While a physical defence reduction song may potentially be overkill, Foe Requiem is stronger than MCH's version of magic defence reduction. Should SE change Paean's effect to what Krietor suggested, MCH's turrets would have to be adjusted so the vulnerability they apply to the targets in range is greater than it is now. Although, I feel that SE wants to keep Paean's current niche novelty, but they should at least make it more convenient. Take away its cast time, make it an oGCD spell with a 90s recast, and have it persist for its full 30s duration even after it negates a cleanse-able ailment.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

While I'm for all making BRD more motile, I'm not in for making both jobs motile. It'd homogenize their playstyle even moreso if they don't give MCH their own changes. I'm honestly fine with one job being motile and the other being non/semi motile, as long as the job functions as whole (which is more than what I can say for BRD atm). BLM and SMN can handle the diversity just fine by design and they're still competing with each other for raid slots (if not interchangable, since they share caster gear that some players actually play both)

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Thing is, BRD and MCH are very much alike in a lot of respects. It's just that one job benefits more from double-oGCD weaving due to a certain trait it has, while the other can move more freely due to cast times being designed around the job instead of being slapped on like an afterthought. BRD could use a bit of leniency in that area, but mostly around animation locking and Straighter Shot procs. If any differences could be made, BRD could have higher base damage but focus more on group sustainability while MCH has slightly lower base damage but more emphasis on inflicting debuffs.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

While keeping everything in perspective, BRD doesn't need any more damage in comparison to MCH. From what I've seen, the two are pretty neck-to-neck as of right now, not factoring that their numbers can be boosted from debuffs (specifically, MCH's own physical debuff boosting themselves). Not to mention the only other skill that has a similar functionality is duality, which also does not allow for duplicated crits.

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The main reason why I support allowing abilities like Barrage to have the chances of one-to-all of its hits being able to crit is that it would have the potential to make up for what was a nerf from what the ability originally did. Granted, MCH would also have to be adjusted as an answer to it, but that would require some balancing issues to take into consideration.

Ultimately, I think we can all agree that Straighter Shot needs to be fixed and the Warden's Paean needs to be less niche. Those two changes alone would be a step in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by Junified

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Totally correct besides the last part, there is an *exception* to EA + Straighter shot, however this is from an unfortunate person who currently sits at around 740-800 skillspeed depending on encounters, for example in A1S my 800 skillspeed set is easily better stats and I don't need TP

The thing is though, if you're "lucky" you'll get an SS proc every time EA comes up. If SS lines up with EA, you're using 130 TP in a single GCD, so while the lack of GCD clipping on EA looks tasty it can burn the hell out of your TP. I tend to avoid doing it too often if I'm getting lucky with SS procs, and I choose to hold EA for my next GCD to both save TP, and "check" for another SS proc since you can do SS -> HS (EA) -> SS if it procs.

It's really just another one of those bard things where it changes depending on the situation, though.