The great streamer Asmongold is joining FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

Not really. I exhausted all the casual content in WoW in two months only because they had a time gate on the casual content. Now that the time gate is gone, a new player can exhaust it in about two weeks. All progression beyond that is locked behind timed Mythic+ dungeon runs and Heroic Raids. Even if they'd had new content a month ago, there would still have been three months where I had nothing to do. I'm just not a fan of the go-go-go dungeon running mentality that is required to succeed in modern-day WoW.

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That pervades here too. Wall to wall pulls or GTFO.

I think people are people.

No game is going to be void of toxicity, because people are frankly always going to be people. I do believe that FFXIV does try to cover its toxic base by denying it's existence (not YOU guys, just in general I see a lot of people swear up and down it just doesn't exist here) where as WoW players just adapted and said 'eh, screw it. I'll be toxic too then.' - again not a representation of ALL WoW players. Just both games player bases have it's issue and both don't exactly handle them well. One tries to hide it, the other just says 'well in rome' and tells people to get thicker skin.

It's true, by the way, WoW hasn't had any new content in months; but I still love playing. I do dungeons with my friends, push M+ as far as we can go and have a great time. I think people who fall out because of content probably don't enjoy pushing stuff too far, and that's fine. Sometimes I get bored, but I get bored with FFXIV too. I don't know, both games have flaws, but I hate seeing people stomp all over one just to try and glorify the other.

We should, in my opinion, be unified as MMO players. We're literally our own community.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

Not really. I exhausted all the casual content in WoW in two months only because they had a time gate on the casual content.

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Only content in WoW to remain subbed is if you're a achivement hunter and collector. At least way I view it in current state.
Same reason I'm still subbed to FF, it has the same problem when you played it for so long.

If you're new, obviously there is a ton of stuff to do but that applies to both games.

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Originally Posted by Frienze

I think people are people.

No game is going to be void of toxicity, because people are frankly always going to be people.

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100%, it just pretty hilarious when people in this communiuty go off like WE'RE SO NICE, EVERYONE IS WELCOMED!
wow player enters the room
GET THE PITCHFORKS!

Now I don't think most people are like this but they are louder than the "normal" people. Most you see this online, not in game but if you're new and look up the game and find right server, community etc and look here or reddit. I get why the people get the idea that this community is really mixed and probably turn off some people.

[QUOTE=Sotaris;5587010]Only content in WoW to remain subbed is if you're a achivement hunter and collector. At least way I view it in current state.
Same reason I'm still subbed to FF, it has the same problem when you played it for so long.


This is the boat i’m in. I’ve done all savage and ex trials content i can do now. I’ve done my relics and i’m BiS on multiple jobs.Crafters and Gatherers all BiS and relics done. There’s virtually nothing for me to do on 14 except if i wanted to do the boring monotony that is achievement hunting. So it just seems like both games are lacking in the content department.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

This is the boat i’m in. I’ve done all savage and ex trials content i can do now. I’ve done my relics and i’m BiS on multiple jobs.Crafters and Gatherers all BiS and relics done. There’s virtually nothing for me to do on 14 except if i wanted to do the boring monotony that is achievement hunting. So it just seems like both games are lacking in the content department.

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I still have a decent amount of stuff I could do here in FF. Like finally level my crafters, and start decorating my house, or level BLU, even collect gold saucer mounts, but I don't want to do it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I still have a decent amount of stuff I could do here in FF. Like finally level my crafters, and start decorating my house, or level BLU, even collect gold saucer mounts, but I don't want to do it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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So tldr you dont have anything to do? XD

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

So tldr you dont have anything to do? XD

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Nope. I just afk in Gangos most of the time nowadays, when I log in.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Nope. I just afk in Gangos most of the time nowadays, when I log in.

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tbh, same. My FC just calls me AFK-Eo at this point.

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Originally Posted by Frienze

We should, in my opinion, be unified as MMO players. We're literally our own community.

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Truer words than any other in this thread.

I want both WoW and FFXIV to be good so they keep competing with each other. Currently, WoW hasn't taken FFXIV seriously. That might change with how popular opinion is turning. It's in all of our interests for them to keep trying to be better and not coast on the idea of being too big to fail. Absolute win/win no matter where in the playerbase you fall.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I still have a decent amount of stuff I could do here in FF. Like finally level my crafters, and start decorating my house, or level BLU, even collect gold saucer mounts, but I don't want to do it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Not leveling blu? Literally missing out on the reason for ffxiv to exist.

9.1 is on June 29th..just announced. There is NO CHANCE Asmongold is going to play FF14 especially with the New World beta on July 20th. That guy is way too addicted to WoW and will never do anything else.

I mean he never said WHEN he'd try out FF14. When played Dark Souls, it took almost a year iirc before that happend.
But good for the wow community that they finally getting 9.1. It been a long wait.

Still only plan to raid log. I'm having more fun leveling jobs here.

I just need to find the one i want to grind gear for because I'm hard item level locked on the 5.3 MSQ and I'd like to finish it lol.

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

9.1 is on June 29th..just announced. There is NO CHANCE Asmongold is going to play FF14 especially with the New World beta on July 20th. That guy is way too addicted to WoW and will never do anything else.

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Remember, he played Sekiro and Darksouls. So he is more then able to play other games.
But of course if an update happens on WoW he will immediately flock to it.
Asmon also did mention that he wants to get a certain point with WoW first, a 'coasting' point. Once he gets there and can just take a break, then he will finally check out FFXIV.

Thats somewhat how he explained it

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

The problem is when they build up certain lore points but then completely drop them and create plot holes just to keep a character alive (aka Graha where this was done multiple times) and also Yshtola. That’s when it’s ridiculous. It isn’t so much the non deaths as it is them going back on their own built lore points and plot and completely ignore what they’ve set up to keep someone alive. It really does feel like we’re playing some slice of life anime game where there’s no consequences for anyone other than the antagonists. It makes things very stale.

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They might be playing the long game. I mean, it's not like they are new to doing that. - points to ARR being paid off in 6.0- So there's that. I might be reading this wrong but it feels like people just want bloodshed because blood. I mean we had death in the cast before, quite a few of them. And death isn't the only way to show lost or something dark. Stormblood is full to the top of insane crazy nondisney stuff. All the rape the empire was doing for one. That was like a HUGE point in a few plots.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Remember, he played Sekiro and Darksouls. So he is more then able to play other games.
But of course if an update happens on WoW he will immediately flock to it.
Asmon also did mention that he wants to get a certain point with WoW first, a 'coasting' point. Once he gets there and can just take a break, then he will finally check out FFXIV.

Thats somewhat how he explained it

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I don't see it happening. But then again I didn't think he would anyway, mostly because of one, his breakdown on sunday. And two, he's clearly sick of talking about XIV. Everytime it gets shown to him he groans. His latest reactions show this. His fans for some reason are slamming him with come over so much that it looks like he's putting it off on purpose. I just feel bad for the man.

It's less a case of people asking for death for the sake of death and more so an acknowledgement that consequences for the antagonists but not the protagonists makes for a pretty stale story. ARR was actually a lot grittier than what came after it precisely because we had scenarios such as Livia's assault upon the Scion's base in Vesper Bay. Now even minor characters are encased in thick layers of plot armour and anything bad that does happen to them generally ends up working out for the better somehow, anyway. As for the stuff in Stormblood, that wasn't anything new nor is it limited to the Empire. It was also attributed to be a problem concerning bad apples within the Immortal Flames, slavers in Satasha, members of the Corpse Brigade and other situations.

Overall, we have a bloated cast and in the eyes of many - myself included - quite a few of the major characters have overstayed their welcome. Given that we're supposed to be dealing with a recreation of the original Final Days, it'd be neat to see at least a handful of impactful deaths amongst the major characters.

It's a good way to make room for some fresh faces, too. Who knows? Maybe we can ditch the likes of Alisae and G'raha and replace them with a proud, stoic Raen male instead!

Yes, if we're not going to see any major deaths during the re-creation of an apocalypse, when are we going to see it?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's less a case of people asking for death for the sake of death and more so an acknowledgement that consequences for the antagonists but not the protagonists makes for a pretty stale story. ARR was actually a lot grittier than what came after it precisely because we had scenarios such as Livia's assault upon the Scion's base in Vesper Bay. Now even minor characters are encased in thick layers of plot armour and anything bad that does happen to them generally ends up working out for the better somehow, anyway. As for the stuff in Stormblood, that wasn't anything new nor is it limited to the Empire. It was also attributed to be a problem concerning bad apples within the Immortal Flames, slavers in Satasha, members of the Corpse Brigade and other situations.

Overall, we have a bloated cast and in the eyes of many - myself included - quite a few of the major characters have overstayed their welcome. Given that we're supposed to be dealing with a recreation of the original Final Days, it'd be neat to see at least a handful of impactful deaths amongst the major characters.

It's a good way to make room for some fresh faces, too. Who knows? Maybe we can ditch the likes of Alisae and G'raha and replace them with a proud, stoic Raen male instead!

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Don't be silly. We got a perfectly good Raen waiting to actually get her dues in Yugiri.

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

Youre kindof proving my point. The point that this game has been dealing with things darker than the disney plot since it's start. And did you forget a person can't walk again? I think that's HUGE. IT really does sound like you just want death for death sake. There's other ways to make characters pay for things other then out right killing them. The one guy I won't mention cause spoilers is a good example. He can't walk anymore. Which means his adventuring life is done. Again that's pretty huge.

Let me ask you this. Why do you need death to bring in new people? What if they just moved on from the old cast to a fresh new cast after 6.0? I'm legit wanna know cause I've seen you and a few others complain mostly that we don't have enough death. But honestly that seems unfair when we have so much other crap, I mean.... losing your legs is pretty big and a game over for any adventurer. And to be fair... why is it a bad thing that mostly the bad guys get offed? I LIKE that we're killing them honestly. So many stories are scared to kill off the bad guys. Atleast in XIV we kill them.

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The problem with the consequence of said guy is he is a minor character. It doesn’t feel as strong of a consequence because said person hasn’t even been on screen for a long time and they’re just brought in at random for one patch. The problem with it is if we know everything is going to be okay then what’s the point? Where’s the pull? There’s a literal world ending apocalypse and if everyone ends up okay that’s just ridiculous lol. There’s a reason literally every single other ff game has dealt with character deaths and hell, a good chunk of them even have the protagonists fail and the antagonists succeed. So it’s not like it’s just out of the blue, it’s part of what makes a good story. Look at ff7 for example. The story wouldn’t be nearly as good if it wasn’t for a certain characters death that is literally one of the most well known moments in gaming history. Death is a part of the realistic sense of plot in a lot of games. It’s unreasonable to think the protagonists should always come out unscathed, especially in end of the world scenarios. My problem is when they give unreasonable amounts of plot armor or create plot holes just to keep characters alive which we’ve seen with both Graha and Yshtola. It makes the story very jarring when they won’t even commit to things and just tease them. This isn’t a disney or slice of life anime game. This is an mmorpg that deals with dark themes.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

Don't be silly. We got a perfectly good Raen waiting to actually get her dues in Yugiri.

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She's effectively bound to Doma but she'll probably show up to play a part in Endwalker yet between Yugiri and Mikoto I've had my fill of female Raen.

I think the men look cool and distinct, so it'd be nice to see one accompany us at least for a while.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

Don't be silly. We got a perfectly good Raen waiting to actually get her dues in Yugiri.

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She's fine and all but some Raen male representation, pls

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

The problem with the consequence of said guy is he is a minor character. It doesn’t feel as strong of a consequence because said person hasn’t even been on screen for a long time and they’re just brought in at random for one patch. The problem with it is if we know everything is going to be okay then what’s the point? Where’s the pull? There’s a literal world ending apocalypse and if everyone ends up okay that’s just ridiculous lol. There’s a reason literally every single other ff game has dealt with character deaths and hell, a good chunk of them even have the protagonists fail and the antagonists succeed. So it’s not like it’s just out of the blue, it’s part of what makes a good story. Look at ff7 for example. The story wouldn’t be nearly as good if it wasn’t for a certain characters death that is literally one of the most well known moments in gaming history. Death is a part of the realistic sense of plot in a lot of games. It’s unreasonable to think the protagonists should always come out unscathed, especially in end of the world scenarios. My problem is when they give unreasonable amounts of plot armor or create plot holes just to keep characters alive which we’ve seen with both Graha and Yshtola. It makes the story very jarring when they won’t even commit to things and just tease them. This isn’t a disney or anime game. This is an mmorpg that deals with dark themes.

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I was going to reformat my answer because I worded it not how I liked. But since you saved the reply and answered I have to reply. Mainly cause we had that in XIV as well. Does a character need to die each expac for you to feel the danger? We had quite a few in the beginning up to SB. And I just disagree with the one character not mattering because he didn't have alot of screen time. It's still there. He still can't walk anymore. And we SAW it. It's not like it was offscreen. We saw the battle and saw the after math. Hell it was a decent amount of the plot towards the end. It's one thing to be tired of some characters in the cast, but it's another thing altogether to forget things just because. Or to undermind what does happen simply because it's not death. So here's my question. If all the main cast - your party- survive all of 6.0 but some of them can't fight anymore. BUT we lost over 70% of the world would you still call that bad? What if we SAW people being killed burned or whatever. Would that not solve the issue you have?

I guess I just see it differently cause people are dying all the time in this game, dying, being raped, turned into things they can't cure from, hell some of them were EATEN!!! Yes I know the primal thing is being undone but I'm not talking about that. Also correct me if I'm wrong but what's the point of killing a main cast member JUST to replace them with someone else? Wouldn't it be better to work with what you have? Seems kindof pointless to me.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

The problem with the consequence of said guy is he is a minor character. It doesn’t feel as strong of a consequence because said person hasn’t even been on screen for a long time and they’re just brought in at random for one patch. The problem with it is if we know everything is going to be okay then what’s the point? Where’s the pull? There’s a literal world ending apocalypse and if everyone ends up okay that’s just ridiculous lol. There’s a reason literally every single other ff game has dealt with character deaths and hell, a good chunk of them even have the protagonists fail and the antagonists succeed. So it’s not like it’s just out of the blue, it’s part of what makes a good story. Look at ff7 for example. The story wouldn’t be nearly as good if it wasn’t for a certain characters death that is literally one of the most well known moments in gaming history. Death is a part of the realistic sense of plot in a lot of games. It’s unreasonable to think the protagonists should always come out unscathed, especially in end of the world scenarios. My problem is when they give unreasonable amounts of plot armor or create plot holes just to keep characters alive which we’ve seen with both Graha and Yshtola. It makes the story very jarring when they won’t even commit to things and just tease them. This isn’t a disney or anime game. This is an mmorpg that deals with dark themes.

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What I WILL say I wished happened in SB but never did and it'll made Zenos a much more liked villain for me.. is if.. he killed us in the first fight. Hear me out. They could've worked in a solo dungeon for us to fight thur to come back to life. Since we're so special and all that. I mean... that'll set us apart from everyone us and I think it'll made more sense. My issue if we're going to bring up those with the main cast is they can do everything we can do. With one or two things they can't. The Echo being one of them. It's hard to believe we're so skilled and OP when most of the cast is just as OP. THAT I think needs to be fixed in my opinion. HW was REALLY bad with that... they'll be entire scenes where you the WOL did nothing but stand there and watch the NPCs and your party get the work done. SB and SB2 fixed it for the most part but it's still there in a few things. I just wished our character did more and was a true main character in the plot instead of just gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

I was going to reformat my answer because I worded it not how I liked. But since you saved the reply and answered I have to reply. Mainly cause we had that in XIV as well. Does a character need to die each expac for you to feel the danger? We had quite a few in the beginning up to SB. And I just disagree with the one character not mattering because he didn't have alot of screen time. It's still there. He still can't walk anymore. And we SAW it. It's not like it was offscreen. We saw the battle and saw the after math. Hell it was a decent amount of the plot towards the end. It's one thing to be tired of some characters in the cast, but it's another thing altogether to forget things just because. Or to undermind what does happen simply because it's not death. So here's my question. If all the main cast - your party- survive all of 6.0 but some of them can't fight anymore. BUT we lost over 70% of the world would you still call that bad? What if we SAW people being killed burned or whatever. Would that not solve the issue you have?

I guess I just see it differently cause people are dying all the time in this game, dying, being raped, turned into things they can't cure from, hell some of them were EATEN!!! Yes I know the primal thing is being undone but I'm not talking about that. Also correct me if I'm wrong but what's the point of killing a main cast member JUST to replace them with someone else? Wouldn't it be better to work with what you have? Seems kindof pointless to me.

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The problem is that in ShB for example. They describe it as the expansion where we face our strongest foes yet. There’s the constant danger of the scions slowly fading away and they dangle that in front of our faces constantly but then...nothing comes from it. We fight against two of the strongest foes so far and nothing happens to any of the scions. Yet in other expansions some die despite it being against lesser foes. At this point i’m not even asking for deaths but consequences period. Despite it being advertised as the darkest and grimest expansion against the strongest foes ever, it’s played the safest with no consequences whatsoever for the main cast. As for your last point, it’s to replace them with someone new to add something new to the story. “Working with what you have” only works for so long.When we’ve been stuck with the same cast for multiple expansions and nothing new happens in regards to them they become stale and boring. We’re already seeing this with Graha whose overstayed his welcome within just 1 expansion, and he’s a character who they wrote immense plot armor and plot holes for to keep alive.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

The problem is that in ShB for example. They describe it as the expansion where we face our strongest foes yet. There’s the constant danger of the scions slowly fading away and they dangle that in front of our faces constantly but then...nothing comes from it. We fight against two of the strongest foes so far and nothing happens to any of the scions. Yet in other expansions some die despite it being against lesser foes. At this point i’m not even asking for deaths but consequences period. Despite it being advertised as the darkest and grimest expansion against the strongest foes ever, it’s played the safest with no consequences whatsoever for the main cast. As for your last point, it’s to replace them with someone new to add something new to the story. “Working with what you have” only works for so long.When we’ve been stuck with the same cast for multiple expansions and nothing new happens in regards to them they become stale and boring. We’re already seeing this with Graha whose overstayed his welcome within just 1 expansion, and he’s a character who they wrote immense plot armor and plot holes for to keep alive.

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I have to just be seeing it differently because I never felt the cast being teased in front of my face. I was too invested in the fact that my character was actually going thur things for the maybe first time? I mean it's rare to be in the direct main plot and have things effect the WOL. Was it fluff... ofcourse. But it was still nice. So I didn't notice nor care that the cast were not being killed. Then again I couldn't count all the deaths we've seen cause there was alot.. it just wasn't the main cast. And I'mma say this. If you're not liking how they are writing the main cast now, then why on earth do you want them to replace them with new faces. To do what? Do the same thing you're sick of the main cast doing? That's what I mean. Changing the players would do nothing if the writing isn't going to change. All you'll be doing is giving the party Fantas to look and sound different. They would still have the plot armor you hate and they still won't be getting killed off. The problem isn't death OR the cast. It's the writing.

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

OK then, from page 1 of this thread only (won't go through 14 pages)







Better? Feels more welcoming?

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Truth be told This is a forum where people yell and complain about everything you are just in the biggest condensed version of it. Maybe talk to people more in the game and you might get the toxicity less, cause I know I rarely come across the jerk attitude from players. Even if you do come across people from asmongold's seething community You should still keep a levelhead and remain nice to them, cause they can't win if they don't get a negative reaction from you.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

The problem is that in ShB for example. They describe it as the expansion where we face our strongest foes yet. There’s the constant danger of the scions slowly fading away and they dangle that in front of our faces constantly but then...nothing comes from it. We fight against two of the strongest foes so far and nothing happens to any of the scions. Yet in other expansions some die despite it being against lesser foes. At this point i’m not even asking for deaths but consequences period. Despite it being advertised as the darkest and grimest expansion against the strongest foes ever, it’s played the safest with no consequences whatsoever for the main cast. As for your last point, it’s to replace them with someone new to add something new to the story. “Working with what you have” only works for so long.When we’ve been stuck with the same cast for multiple expansions and nothing new happens in regards to them they become stale and boring. We’re already seeing this with Graha whose overstayed his welcome within just 1 expansion, and he’s a character who they wrote immense plot armor and plot holes for to keep alive.

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I enjoyed Shadowbringers' story a lot, easily more than any expansion's story before it. But yeah, that is still one of my biggest gripes with the game. There's no real consequences for the actions of the story's major characters except for 3-4, and 3 of them were just semi important side characters. 1 wasn't around long enough to actually be important. lol I'm not asking for Game of Thrones here. But if it were like most other FFs, characters would die, even some of the ones we've grown attached to. And they stay dead. It adds a bit more emotional weight to the game and accurately depicts the high stakes of such a large, important conflict.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's less a case of people asking for death for the sake of death and more so an acknowledgement that consequences for the antagonists but not the protagonists makes for a pretty stale story.

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I think that depends entirely on the story being told. The entirety of Alphinaud's story arc is about consequence. Consequence does not and should not have to mean deaths, although there are deaths already, regardless if people think they're minor deaths.

If anything, I hate when character (especially major character) deaths are used to show consequences. That makes them less real and more tools for plot device.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Meanwhile i still see people both on the forums,reddit, and in game bash on WoW players constantly. Idk why people still try to defend it when it’s literally a known major problem. Our community sucks. It’s a cesspool of toxicity hidden behind a shiny piece of plastic with glitter and stickers on it. Just because people try to keep it underwraps doesn’t make it any less true. The fact people sent death threats and tried to physically harass an ex wow veteran simply because he gave an opinion on the game should speak volumes. You can argue all you want that “that doesn’t represent our community,” but when it happens multiple times, yeah sorry but one time is an accident, a second time isn’t. Don’t give me that crap.

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Our community sucks as much as you want to wallow in the negativity. Blacklist people who are jerks, don't stay in FC's full of them either. Everyone else I've met has enriched my gaming experience pretty nicely. I've played many many MMO's and so far This and GuildWars are the "nicest" ones.

Yeah it's not a utopia and yes some people act like the community is nothing but milk and honey (it totally is not) but both extremes are completely untrue.

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Originally Posted by Awha

FFXIV community is a meme though GCBTW, is how a many others view us because of those minority posters. The reality is yes if someone saw something crazy multiple times many would attribute that behavior the community at large.

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And that's their problem. The truth being the extreme majority of the FFXIV community is the same as anywhere else, people playing games. And since we aren't also indoctrinated with this pseudo rivalry of say.. Alliance VS Horde or Asmodean Vs Elyos, most people in the game are helpful and willing to treat you as a fellow gamer no matter where you come from. Memes are memes and should be taken as such. Games are populated with gamers who are as diverse as the rest of the world and for the most part largely just people amusing themselves with the game.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Yeah it's not a utopia and yes some people act like the community is nothing but milk and honey (it totally is not)

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Yeah, but I think "great" is far from "utopia" or "milk and honey" and that's why gcbtw simply irks me. FFXIV is the only community I know where saying it's great is somehow a bad thing that must be corrected or people would somehow be unable to deal with toxic elements of the community if (or when) they do find it.

I was proud to be a part of the "most toxic server NA" in SWTOR. We acknowledged exactly what we were, and everything was more fun due to it. Imperial fleet, and PvP chats were amazing, hilarity every single night. God, now those were the days.

Here, there are parts of this community who refuse to acknowledge the darker parts of it, and I've seen many who talk about the "great community" who are absolutely the opposite, third-party. Behind people's backs.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Yeah, but I think "great" is far from "utopia" or "milk and honey" and that's why gcbtw simply irks me. FFXIV is the only community I know where saying it's great is somehow a bad thing that must be corrected or people would somehow be unable to deal with toxic elements of the community if (or when) they do find it.

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It comes across as some sort of contrarianism to put it charitably. Certain posters just have this need to remind everyone that the XIV community has vile people in it and almost revel in it like "see? you're not so great! you're in fact worse than all the others!" and claim it represents the community as a whole rather than the individuals in sub-communities. But not them of course, they're either not actually part of the community or are the good part since they constantly pat each other on the back about what a good job they've done bringing up what bad people did.

XIV's community is literally like any other fandom community and I haven't seen this "majority" trying to censor or white-wash, but I also don't go kicking in a fandom's doors and hit them with the "um ackshually..." and then confirm my bias when they defend themselves.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I was proud to be a part of the "most toxic server NA" in SWTOR. We acknowledged exactly what we were, and everything was more fun due to it. Imperial fleet, and PvP chats were amazing, hilarity every single night. God, now those were the days.

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Cool for you and the people you knew, what about the folks who weren't in it to be treated poorly by others who embraced their toxicity? Do folks like that carry the "act like a jerk, it's more honest" mindset into their real lives?

I'm not sure if I should be concerned or flattered to have gotten my own tag. lol

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Originally Posted by linayar

I think that depends entirely on the story being told. The entirety of Alphinaud's story arc is about consequence. Consequence does not and should not have to mean deaths, although there are deaths already, regardless if people think they're minor deaths.

If anything, I hate when character (especially major character) deaths are used to show consequences. That makes them less real and more tools for plot device.

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Like i said before though, i’m not even so much asking for death as i’m asking for consequence. There were almost no consequences for the main cast of ShB, despite it being the most gritty and darkest expansion against the strongest foes imaginable. Even the whole carteneu section of 5.55, despite going against lunar primals, no one in the main cast got hurt or had any consequences. I disagree with characters deaths making them less real. If anything it makes it more realistic. No one is ever safe when it comes to think like wars or apocalypses. People don’t have plot armor or plot devices in real life. They’re just as vulnerable to things as everyone else. There isn’t really a plot device either if the writers have to resort to plot armor and plot holes to keep characters alive, like i keep staying, Graha and Yshtola. That’s more of a detriment to the story than a character death (which can actually enhance the story) would ever be.

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Originally Posted by SilverObi

Cool for you and the people you knew, what about the folks who weren't in it to be treated poorly by others who embraced their toxicity? Do folks like that carry the "act like a jerk, it's more honest" mindset into their real lives?

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Well pub players started running away to the PvE servers. I suppose they didn't like getting killed in their spawns while leveling. Not my problem. If a player signs up for a PvP server, they should expect to PvP. Like, that's all I'm saying! We definitely didn't enable any sort of play that would become a burden on others either, not like here anyway. We looked out for each other.

Hmm, I can't speak for others, but I am quite polite in real life. The difference is.. these are games. This isn't real life. People shouldn't be taking what's said in games too personally. Not like many do here. Trash talk is just trash talk, like in sports. It's a part of competition, I feel.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Here, there are parts of this community who refuse to acknowledge the darker parts of it,

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What is the context of this acknowledgement? If they haven't experienced it for themselves, it's understandable.

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and I've seen many who talk about the "great community" who are absolutely the opposite, third-party. Behind people's backs.

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I'm not sure what you mean here? If people are being hypocrites or liars, that is their problem, but those people exist everywhere. If that disqualifies FFXIV from being able to have a "great" community, I think that's a negative outlook to view life and gives undue credit to bad people and allow them to ruin it for the rest.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Hmm, I can't speak for others, but I am quite polite in real life. The difference is - these are games. This isn't real life. People shouldn't be taking what's said on games too personally. Not like many do here. Trash talk is just trash talk, like in sports. It's a part of competition, I feel.

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I really wish people would remember this. People take literally everything in this community so seriously. Whether it be people who like antagonists or what. There are people that literally call players genocide sympathizers or the n word in regards to people who like the Garleans. People need to remember it’s a game full of pixels. People take any form of criticism for the game as some personal attack on their person. We see proof of this in both the scottzone and lazypeon situation, and we’re now seeing it with Asmongold. People can go ahead and say “well those people don’t count for the community as a whole,” and while that is partially true, it doesn’t change the fact that it is a reoccurring problem with this community and it seems like this community specifically. People who are upset at the people that constantly call the toxicity out, please think about it from their perspective. We’ve gone years with people constantly praising this game as the greatest community ever and there’s a large majority of people who constantly get spoon fed by SE or the community in that this game can do no wrong and this community is perfect, and then gaslight whenever someone calls it out.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Like i said before though, i’m not even so much asking for death as i’m asking for consequence. (which can actually enhance the story) would ever be.

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I always see people that make this complaint and it urks me, Why must there be consequences in a plot story that is already fine as it is, also You are not getting the fact that there IS a consequence, and that consequence is what is going to happen with endwalker. There's a name for this but I forgot what it was called but I do know the best details for it and it goes like such. "When You prevent a terrible thing from happening, something worse will come in replacement to that." So yah, if you wanted your consequence, please think with a bigger set in mind instead of hoping for a scion to die or get some severe reprocussion. Cause I seen it already happening in 5.55 that I won't say cause spoilers.

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Originally Posted by Pandie_Goodies

I always see people that make this complaint and it urks me, Why must there be consequences in a plot story that is already fine as it is, also You are not getting the fact that there IS a consequence, and that consequence is what is going to happen with endwalker. There's a name for this but I forgot what it was called but I do know the best details for it and it goes like such. "When You prevent a terrible thing from happening, something worse will come in replacement to that." So yah, if you wanted your consequence, please think with a bigger set in mind instead of hoping for a scion to die or get some severe reprocussion. Cause I seen it already happening in 5.55 that I won't say cause spoilers.

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Um... that doesn’t change the fact we went a literal entire expansion without it. We can speculate about 6.0 all we want sure, but that doesn’t change the now. The story being fine is your opinion. Personally i wasn’t a huge fan of it specifically for that reason. Especially when they completely write over and ignore plot points the writers THEMSELVES WROTE, just to keep someone alive. It’s when it starts contradicting itself that i lose interest in the plot. Arr had consequences, HW had consequences, SB had consequences. ShB should be no different yet it is. Could EW bring some? Absolutely, but people said the same thing before ShB came out. We just have to wait and see in that respect.