Highly Notorious Monsters

Too much seriousness in this thread:

Boba Fett playing the Lost Woods theme on the accordion in a subway.

Spread the smiles!

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Too much seriousness in this thread:

Boba Fett playing the Lost Woods theme on the accordion in a subway.

Spread the smiles!

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Naw they need some of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uleS0i4Kgx4

If you want the full package as per the post from Richard in BG you need to remove PL from the game straight and simple. I returned to the game around 20th of Jan of this year after giving up not long after release. I found myself leveling jobs through Leves having fun getting up into the high teens. Trawling through the wards to get gear etc then was introduced to PL and its all pointless now. Even lvl 15,25,30 gear from NMs now is pointless. I understand its a person choice if they want to PL or not but lets be honest. Get up 10 levels in 1/2 hrs or spend numerous days doing it? Gear from NMs mentioned from 11 had a long life as you went up in levels to the 50s if not more, Emperors hairpin, LL Boots, O.Kotes etc. Just no need for them now. Get a weapon, get PL to 41 do SB party and 50.

I would agree that i would like to see HNMs introduced. Just try implement a system that the reward justifies the challenge and remove the need for people to bot, because thats what FFXI did, forced alot of people into a situation where they either botted to level playing field or simply didnt and seen little or no rewards for hours and hours of camping.

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Originally Posted by Oreth

If you want the full package as per the post from Richard in BG you need to remove PL from the game straight and simple. I returned to the game around 20th of Jan of this year after giving up not long after release. I found myself leveling jobs through Leves having fun getting up into the high teens. Trawling through the wards to get gear etc then was introduced to PL and its all pointless now. Even lvl 15,25,30 gear from NMs now is pointless. I understand its a person choice if they want to PL or not but lets be honest. Get up 10 levels in 1/2 hrs or spend numerous days doing it? Gear from NMs mentioned from 11 had a long life as you went up in levels to the 50s if not more, Emperors hairpin, LL Boots, O.Kotes etc. Just no need for them now. Get a weapon, get PL to 41 do SB party and 50.

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XI had a problem too, it was having level 10/20 equipment be viable at 50+

SE can fix PL'ing for all I care, but I hope they don't make the same mistake XI did with having stupidly low level gear be relevant at mid/max level.

I don't thin ka isaw anyone mention this yet : MAKE NM/HNM DROPS CRAFTABLE (yes like uraeus Doublet) WITH HQ VERSIONS POSSIBLE PLEASE.

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Originally Posted by KyrsIsley

Anyone who had played an MMO before also know about instances. Open world named or NMs was the standard of quite a few MMOs, but so was instance oriented content.

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Actually you wrong. There were MMOs up to that point that literally had absolutely zero instances. In the time frame of pre FFXI instancs were not the norm. They were just starting to come into play as they are today.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

No. They shouldn't exist unless the problems they carried with them from FFXI are fully addressed.

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This is the issue you and others seem to have here, its as if some of you can't see past FFXI when it comes to this game.. There are MMOs beyond FFXI, that had better mechanics for for endgame open world content right?

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Originally Posted by Taika

Cichy, I see you feel really strongly about this. However, in your post you don't even bother to explain why and how you feel the HNMs ruined FFXI.

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Cichy was likely one of those people banned from using the Salvage exploit, those groups of people seem to feel the strongly against FFXI and anything from it, even though Yoshida has proven he's not at all against revisiting XI as seen with even the reuse of NPC names for the same races lol.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

FFXI's long re-spawn timers lead to a problem of people negating their real world responsibilities in order to camp a long spawn NM. Hence the desire to claim an NM's would often lead to people not attending work, school, or social activities. This must be avoided with XIV.

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Because no other MMORPG in the world caused people to negate RL responsibilities? We've never heard of WoW causing kids to fail in school for example?

Nope, I quit of my own accord when cap was raised to 80. Camped HNMs for 5 years hardcore, I have more experience with them than most people in this thread.
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Fenrir/Cichy

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There's nothing wrong with Tiamat not spawning for 3~5 days after he is killed.

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Yes, there is. It creates the whole 200 people camping, sitting around doing nothing during spawn windows game. What was fun about that? Mobs don't have to pop once a year for their stuff to be rare/desireable, or to be challenging.

Open world HNMs, in the form they were in in FFXI, suck. period. There's a reason WoW only had like 2 of them for several years. Nobody wanted it, and almost nobody even cared to try to fight them. FFXI-style open world HNMs are open to abuses that force pops and instanced NMs aren't. They should only put things like this in the game if and when they can resolve those problems and abuses.

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its as if some of you can't see past FFXI when it comes to this game.

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No. I'm seeing past FFXI right now. That's why I make the statement about issues needing to be addressed. If they rip HNMs from FFXI like they've ripped a lot of other things, it will suck. If they do it their own way and solve the problems that FFXI HNMs had, then I'm all for it.

so don't make open world HNMs the way they did in FFXI. Thats the comparison too many people are blindly making here, and forgeting there are games that did it better, and thus, would make better comparison examples
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Thats the comparison too many people are blindly making here

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The comparison is being made because it's a valid concern. I, and a lot of people, don't want them to return just as they were before. I want them to be better and more enjoyable to go after. I want it to be about the monster fight, not the player fight and drama.

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Originally Posted by DarthTaru

Open world HNM's ARE and have ALWAYS been fair to all who want to participate.
You're on a server.
An HNM pops on that server.
You try to claim it.
You try to hold it.
You try to kill it.

It's the same for everyone.

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Agreed.

I appreciate all the ideas and discussion on different ways to implement HNM, really I do. I'd like to see some of that in XIV. But also, I'd like to see them in the way they were presented in XI too because there was nothing actually wrong with the system. Whether or not you liked the system is up to you.. whether or not you like to compete with other LS's is up to you... whether or not you want to camp for hours is up to you... whether or not you want to attempt to claim is up to you... whether or not you want to get a ToD is up to you... whether or not your in a Linkshell that has a clue what they're doing, also up to you..

Just because you didn't like XI or XI's HNM system doesn't mean there was anything wrong with it. Plently of people loved it obviously (there was always alot of healthy competition on my server) and it never bothered me or my LS mates if we didn't claim Sandworm for 2 weeks straight.. or missed Niddhogg abuncha of times back to back.. Alot of you guys like to complain about XI's HNM and its pretty obvious you never had much experience doing it in the first place. Especially when you go straight to 'no open-world HNMs because of "unfair" claim wars'.. really? I played XI on 360.. and got a claim on EVERY HNM we attempted at some point (multiple times in most cases... although I only ever remember claiming KV and Tiamat once each..but that was likely because I'd usually fall asleep on those windows..). I never got why some people tried to use claim bots anyway.. unless you were just AFK or didn't know the ToD, it was faster to just spam claim at the actual ToD (starting a few seconds b4 it). But, if you actually went out to these 'claim wars' on a regular basis, you'd already know that..

The actual 'war' would begin after the intial group claims... They'd try to hold it with whatever few members they had camping, basically a low-man kite.. while the other groups would watch in suspense watching if their tank(s) go down. If they did, the other groups would start trying to spam claim getting ready for the other group to lose hate. Another group picks it up and then attempts to hold it, meanwhile most of the new groups LS has now shown up and they start buffing up and engage. But then oh shyt!! Mob got turned, spike flail, wipes half the group!!.. Now the other LS are trying to spam claim it when that LS loses hate!! Group 3 picks it up at 50%, already buffed they go in and wail it on down for the "W" and the LOOTS!!! NOW THATS HOW YOU MMO!! Good show for all 3 groups, yet group 3 wins it today. Man I miss having fun in open-world...

Great post.
You and I are cut of the same cloth, Taru :D

A Tiamat not respawning until 72 hours after it's death doesn't "lead" to anything but the rarity and majesty of the HNM and its drop. That's it. Nobody was "camping" a window that wasn't up and nobody "camped" Tiamat on their main character unless they were really putting in a great effort to get Gaiters. Most of the camping was done by linkshell Alts. When Tia or any other HNM would pop the alarm would sound and the race would be on. It was one of the most fun aspects of XI.

In XIV, my LS and I sack claimed Goblin back before Yoshi P nerfed the existing NM's. Another linkshell was gathered in a huge alliance of 16 and my friend just jogged past them in a subligar and a conehat and took the claim. This really upset them (although they had no reason to feel cheated, they just got beat to the punch) and what followed was the funnest night i've had in this game to date. 4 friends and I (one LS) trying to kill Goblin while 16 from another LS tried to MPK us with mobs. We were unable to Siphon MP because we moved the NM (at that time this was a HUGE challenge to overcome) and all of us just had to be incredibly sharp to overcome everything. Sure, that was only goblin, but it was 5 man goblin, at a time when everyone used 16, while 16 people were trying to kill us and we had no MP.

Most fun in XIV to date... for all of us.

A lot of XI veterans like XIV and have faith in XIV and the direction of XIV but if open world HNMs are not introduced that faith will have been unfounded and we will not be here for the long haul, we SE's most loyal customers.

Ooh yeah, I forgot about LS mates who would leave an alt character at pop sites and then let us know when stuff popped. If you were lucky your LS won the race to the HNM before everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The comparison is being made because it's a valid concern. I, and a lot of people, don't want them to return just as they were before. I want them to be better and more enjoyable to go after. I want it to be about the monster fight, not the player fight and drama.

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I agree good sir. As much as I loved XI HNM system (and trust me, i loved it!) we most certainly need to tweak the system and try to implement it better in FFXIV.

I know everyone has comparisons on what kind of HNM's they would like to see, but I say this: Why not implement every possible kind?

People want short-timed respawn HNM's that take teamwork to kill? Well lets put some of those bad boys in the game!

Some XI afficianados want a couple 21-24h HNM to feed that need of competitive inter-LS battles to claim and win? Why not let them have it?

Some people want only instanced HNM's.. well lets give them some HNM's!

There are so many more examples!

FFXIV cannot afford to cater to one group indivicually. Content needs to be spread evenly and be available for everyone regardless of what interests they have. I am not satisfied with XIV right now, but I am a die hard FFXI fan, and I want so badly for this game to become a game which I can play as devotedly as I did XI.

I would ask all of you to not insult other's likes and dislikes, but rather, offer purely constructive criticisms on ways that system could be improved, and worked into FFXIV. We will get alot farther if everyone comes together, rather than spend time amid arguments.

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Originally Posted by Exni

Agreed.

I appreciate all the ideas and discussion on different ways to implement HNM, really I do. I'd like to see some of that in XIV. But also, I'd like to see them in the way they were presented in XI too because there was nothing actually wrong with the system. Whether or not you liked the system is up to you.. whether or not you like to compete with other LS's is up to you... whether or not you want to camp for hours is up to you... whether or not you want to attempt to claim is up to you... whether or not you want to get a ToD is up to you... whether or not your in a Linkshell that has a clue what they're doing, also up to you..

Just because you didn't like XI or XI's HNM system doesn't mean there was anything wrong with it. Plently of people loved it obviously (there was always alot of healthy competition on my server) and it never bothered me or my LS mates if we didn't claim Sandworm for 2 weeks straight.. or missed Niddhogg abuncha of times back to back.. Alot of you guys like to complain about XI's HNM and its pretty obvious you never had much experience doing it in the first place. Especially when you go straight to 'no open-world HNMs because of "unfair" claim wars'.. really? I played XI on 360.. and got a claim on EVERY HNM we attempted at some point (multiple times in most cases... although I only ever remember claiming KV and Tiamat once each..but that was likely because I'd usually fall asleep on those windows..). I never got why some people tried to use claim bots anyway.. unless you were just AFK or didn't know the ToD, it was faster to just spam claim at the actual ToD (starting a few seconds b4 it). But, if you actually went out to these 'claim wars' on a regular basis, you'd already know that..

The actual 'war' would begin after the intial group claims... They'd try to hold it with whatever few members they had camping, basically a low-man kite.. while the other groups would watch in suspense watching if their tank(s) go down. If they did, the other groups would start trying to spam claim getting ready for the other group to lose hate. Another group picks it up and then attempts to hold it, meanwhile most of the new groups LS has now shown up and they start buffing up and engage. But then oh shyt!! Mob got turned, spike flail, wipes half the group!!.. Now the other LS are trying to spam claim it when that LS loses hate!! Group 3 picks it up at 50%, already buffed they go in and wail it on down for the "W" and the LOOTS!!! NOW THATS HOW YOU MMO!! Good show for all 3 groups, yet group 3 wins it today. Man I miss having fun in open-world...

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At one point my linkshell was making 100 mil a month because we monopolized everything with bots. We had about 50 ppl and claimed 90% of HNMs. Whatever we dint sell we dropped to the ground so that the notion that you can get gear for free did not get around. There were dozens of linkshells like us.
Is this what you want? Because this is what XI was and what XIV will become.
Unlike you I am not delusional and I'm not lying to myself that what we did was majestic or noble. However, this is what that game mechanic created and promoted.
Also, 90% of fights in XI were tank and spank so novelty of them wore very quick.

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Originally Posted by Cichy

At one point my linkshell was making 100 mil a month because we monopolized everything with bots. We had about 50 ppl and claimed 90% of HNMs. Whatever we dint sell we dropped to the ground so that the notion that you can get gear for free did not get around.

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I want to be like this ^^^ when I grow up

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The comparison is being made because it's a valid concern. I, and a lot of people, don't want them to return just as they were before. I want them to be better and more enjoyable to go after.

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Thats my point. As far as I can tell, no one is asking for anything to return in the same capacity as FFXI. We are asking for the HNMs as they are in other MMOs that did them better then FFXI. Alot of other games did alot of the same things FFXI did, but alot better, some of them did things worse. If you read the entire thread, all anyone is asking for to have open world HNMs, and most have made references to how to improve them, or made references to other games that did it better, or specifically say to impliment HNMs but not as they did in FFXI.

You are simply trying to be difficult for the sake of it I guess. Because I pointed this stuff out as a reason to explain why I think "thats the comparison too many people are blindly making here".

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Originally Posted by Cichy

At one point my linkshell was making 100 mil a month because we monopolized everything with bots. We had about 50 ppl and claimed 90% of HNMs. Whatever we dint sell we dropped to the ground so that the notion that you can get gear for free did not get around. There were dozens of linkshells like us.
Is this what you want? Because this is what XI was and what XIV will become.
Unlike you I am not delusional and I'm not lying to myself that what we did was majestic or noble. However, this is what that game mechanic created and promoted.
Also, 90% of fights in XI were tank and spank so novelty of them wore very quick.

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Who said what YOU did was majestic or noble? These forums still are a riot at times I see.. People can't defend an arguement without making stuff up.. But fine, I'll continue

IF by chance there was a time where your LS was claiming almost everything I'm not sure what that has to do with anything I said... Regardless if YOUR LS failed and couldn't get a claim without a bot (which is beyond SAD...), that just a testament to the lack of competition on your server. EVEN IF theres abunch a groups out only with bots, you shouldn't get claim 90% of the time unless the other people simply arent even trying.. If your LS decides to let stuff drop to the ground (again.. fail.., we always had friends either on a waiting list outside the shell, or would sell it someone camping for whatever.. better than letting it drop to the floor...), that's just up to your LS... Basically, just because your LS botted on a server with hardly any competition (so.. so.. fail..), doesn't mean the rest of us didn't have fun doing it the way it was intended..

Edit: The only thing that I will agree did become a problem w/ regard to HNM were the Speed Hacks, which I didnt notice as a problem until the Sandworm days.. Yeah fix that..

Double Edit: Cichy, your name is kinda familiar, were you on Phoenix (volume?)

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Originally Posted by ThePatriarch

Interesting idea. This would definitely be a good compromise.

Let's use King Behemoth for example. Instead of obtaining his "drops", he dropped a set amount of tokens every kill. Somewhere, there would be an NPC to whom you could trade these tokens to in exchange for loot.

Lets say - Neptunal Abj.: Legs - 10 Tokens
Behemoth's Tounge - 5 Tokens
Behemoth's Hide - 1 Token
Defending Ring - 50 Tokens

I kinda like it. Most certainly encourages fair distribution.

Should the tokens be tradeable, or Rare-ex?

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This is a really lovely good idea ! give up the linkshell point-system (DGKP) and Drama (lootwhore).Simply come kill NM, get what you desserve, be here often, and go buy what you have farm for. this is the best system i've heard from here.

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Originally Posted by ThePatriarch

I agree good sir. As much as I loved XI HNM system (and trust me, i loved it!) we most certainly need to tweak the system and try to implement it better in FFXIV.

I know everyone has comparisons on what kind of HNM's they would like to see, but I say this: Why not implement every possible kind?

People want short-timed respawn HNM's that take teamwork to kill? Well lets put some of those bad boys in the game!

Some XI afficianados want a couple 21-24h HNM to feed that need of competitive inter-LS battles to claim and win? Why not let them have it?

Some people want only instanced HNM's.. well lets give them some HNM's!

There are so many more examples!

FFXIV cannot afford to cater to one group indivicually. Content needs to be spread evenly and be available for everyone regardless of what interests they have. I am not satisfied with XIV right now, but I am a die hard FFXI fan, and I want so badly for this game to become a game which I can play as devotedly as I did XI.

I would ask all of you to not insult other's likes and dislikes, but rather, offer purely constructive criticisms on ways that system could be improved, and worked into FFXIV. We will get alot farther if everyone comes together, rather than spend time amid arguments.

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This.

The people who would like to see the return of HNM's with long repop timers and rare drop rates aren't at all opposed to an all of the above policy.

So why are the people so firmly against these NM's against an all of the above policy?

If there's plenty in this game to keep us busy after the launch of 2.0 why should you care if a bit of that content involves long windows on HNM's with big ticket drop items?

We're not against you getting dungeons. We're not against you getting instant repop NMs. We're not even against you getting instant repop HNM's (though I feel like they cease to be such with instant repops).

So why are you against us getting the content we want? Malice?
I just don't understand the mentality.

I remember listening to a linkshell leader complain in XI that his linkshell couldn't kill Tiamat because his linkshell could never claim Tiamat and so couldn't get any practice on Tiamat. In truth they _never_ claimed because they were afraid to wipe in front of everyone due to that lack of practice.

However, Jormy was up 24/7 and linkshells didn't bother with him outside of the occasional title hunt and yet I didn't see any of these linkshells that were full of complaining up there getting in some practice that would have served them well were they truly getting ambitious enough to involve themselves in Tiamat competition. Any aspiring linkshell that didn't get in on Tiamat or any other HNM class mob can blame themselves, not their competition, and certainly not "bots".

Take a little initiative and you might find nobody is or was holding you and your linkshell back but yourselves.

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Originally Posted by ThePatriarch

I agree good sir. As much as I loved XI HNM system (and trust me, i loved it!) we most certainly need to tweak the system and try to implement it better in FFXIV.

I know everyone has comparisons on what kind of HNM's they would like to see, but I say this: Why not implement every possible kind?

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You have said this before, I have said this before, and 47 other posters on this thread have said this before. 3 times as many have agreed with it.

The problem is that someone keeps stirring the pot and firing up the conversation with illogical comments of

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HNMS suck, no one wants them in game ever

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The thingis, we all end up back to this same point. Now that I think about it. I guess we should thank those illogical trolling haters for repeatedly kindling the debate so its stays a hot topic and keeps dev attention on it.

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Originally Posted by Exni

Who said what YOU did was majestic or noble? These forums still are a riot at times I see.. People can't defend an arguement without making stuff up.. But fine, I'll continue

IF by chance there was a time where your LS was claiming almost everything I'm not sure what that has to do with anything I said... Regardless if YOUR LS failed and couldn't get a claim without a bot (which is beyond SAD...), that just a testament to the lack of competition on your server. EVEN IF theres abunch a groups out only with bots, you shouldn't get claim 90% of the time unless the other people simply arent even trying.. If your LS decides to let stuff drop to the ground (again.. fail.., we always had friends either on a waiting list outside the shell, or would sell it someone camping for whatever.. better than letting it drop to the floor...), that's just up to your LS... Basically, just because your LS botted on a server with hardly any competition (so.. so.. fail..), doesn't mean the rest of us didn't have fun doing it the way it was intended..

Edit: The only thing that I will agree did become a problem w/ regard to HNM were the Speed Hacks, which I didnt notice as a problem until the Sandworm days.. Yeah fix that..

Double Edit: Cichy, your name is kinda familiar, were you on Phoenix (volume?)

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LSs that attempted to camp HNMs and couldnt claim usually fell apart very fast.
Every HNM linkshell in XI ever botted. That's just a fact. And yes people did not have fun doing it the way it was intended. You had fun watching someone kill Nidhogg after you spent past week camping Fafnir? Come on bro, it drove people to pull the hair out of their head.
Speed hacks at sandworm were never a big problem because SE found a pretty reliable way to detect them. Most people who got banned were using those. People used Scan Zone to find Ixion and Sandworm.
You cant convince anyone in their right mind that going everyday and seeing others kill HNM over and over is fun.
Especially ones like Nidhoggs who were the only shot at E body.

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Originally Posted by Cichy

LSs that attempted to camp HNMs and couldnt claim usually fell apart very fast.
Every HNM linkshell in XI ever botted. That's just a fact. And yes people did not have fun doing it the way it was intended. You had fun watching someone kill Nidhogg after you spent past week camping Fafnir? Come on bro, it drove people to pull the hair out of their head.
Speed hacks at sandworm were never a big problem because SE found a pretty reliable way to detect them. Most people who got banned were using those. People used Scan Zone to find Ixion and Sandworm.
You cant convince anyone in their right mind that going everyday and seeing others kill HNM over and over is fun.
Especially ones like Nidhoggs who were the only shot at E body.

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I pulled hair out, for sure. Probably tossed a few keyboards.

It did bring some great inter-linkshell comedy, and competition though. Kept people playing solely to compete and smash the other LS's by claiming and getting that drop. I am in no way saying implement alot of this content, however. But for the ones of us who found that chaos fun, why not throw us a little piece of the pie and give us a few 21-24 hour HNM's. I used to get my homework done solely off 7th window pops lol. (When I say give us a "few", i mean think of if the game had over 500 NM"s total, make like 3 HNM's 21hour respawn)

I think that other NM's with shorter respawn times should most certainly outnumber the above mentioned content, but I'm not saying it should be completely absent from the game. Some of us enjoyed the mud-slinging, raunchy camps of which is hardcore HNM camping.

But do I want to do it every day, no. Hell no. But its just nice to have that wide variety of content, that way if I get in that mood I can go out there and camp that 21-24h HNM. That way when I lose claim I can go pop another instanced NM and take out my frustrations lol

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Originally Posted by Cichy

LSs that attempted to camp HNMs and couldnt claim usually fell apart very fast.
Every HNM linkshell in XI ever botted. That's just a fact. And yes people did not have fun doing it the way it was intended. You had fun watching someone kill Nidhogg after you spent past week camping Fafnir? Come on bro, it drove people to pull the hair out of their head.
Speed hacks at sandworm were never a big problem because SE found a pretty reliable way to detect them. Most people who got banned were using those. People used Scan Zone to find Ixion and Sandworm.
You cant convince anyone in their right mind that going everyday and seeing others kill HNM over and over is fun.
Especially ones like Nidhoggs who were the only shot at E body.

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No that's not a fact.. But you must be from the "Because we did, everyone did camp". Yeah, I had fun watching HNM almost as much as fighting, I've said that a few times already in this thread and others. Spectating was ALOT of fun for me, especially because you didn't always know how it would turn out. No, I didn't QQ after not getting Nidhogg after 2 weeks.. and I think it's kinda sad you did.. but if XI tugged at your emotional hamstrings for missing the possibility of MAYBE getting a drop, then that's on you. And yes, speed hacks were a large problem, there were so many alts running around blinking across the map at one point I almost wrote a letter to SE.. And what does Widescan have to do with using the speed hack? Yeah, we all know you located which zone Ixion or SW popped in with Widescan, the problem came after when all the LS's run to that position for the claim..

Seeing others claim HNM over and over while rarely ever getting a claim yourself wouldn't be fun for me either. But, seeing as though I never said that in the first place I don't know why you felt the need to mention that. A HNM shell that actively camps, collects ToD's, has on-call members, and communicates with each other wouldn't have that problem in the first place.. At times it would seem other shells would be on roll with claims, other times we'd have them locked down, most times it was a pretty even spread with the exception of when an LS really focused on trying to lock down one specific HNM. Our schedule was so busy (which I'm SURE you should be aware of..) that regardless if we missed the claim we may have had members already camping two other HNMs. If we got claim great, if not we were already on the way to the next, or rushing to start the rest of endgame before it got too late. It did not bother me to miss claims.. We got plenty of all of them, and could gear newer members quick enough (if they had good attendence), and had plenty of places to be allllll the time.

I was loving even days like these:
POP!
....
NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Missed Nidd AGAIN!!
....
PlzWipePlzWipePlz
....
OMG! OMG! OMG! SW POP La'Theine Plateau [S]!!! GO! GO! GO!
Screw Nidd, everyone GO GO GO!
....
GDI!! Already Claimed...
....
BOOO!!!!!
OK (Gather together)(Einherjar) - Odin - 15(Minute)!

I didn't need to have the glory everyday just to have fun.

Exn :) I love your post and I agree.

Yeah and a group without bots could come in and just claim a Fafnir Yay! No one would try to steal their claim or mpk them. They had fun!
You might be the most delusional and ignorant person in this thread yet.
You said you got plenty of claims, that means your linkshell botted, and your gear was obtained through bots.
Dont act like such a saint.
Every HNM linkshell that successfully claimed HNMs botted. Period.

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Originally Posted by Exn

I was loving even days like these:
POP!
....
NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Missed Nidd AGAIN!!
....
PlzWipePlzWipePlz
....
OMG! OMG! OMG! SW POP La'Theine Plateau [S]!!! GO! GO! GO!
Screw Nidd, everyone GO GO GO!
....
GDI!! Already Claimed...
....
BOOO!!!!!
OK (Gather together)(Einherjar) - Odin - 15(Minute)!

I didn't need to have the glory everyday just to have fun.

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This made my day good sir.

This statement here exemplifies the wonders of having ample amounts of content. By catering to every aspect, there is always something to do, regardless of your successes/failures.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cichy

Every HNM linkshell that successfully claimed HNMs botted. Period.

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....
xD
Spoken like a true botter.

At any rate, here's an idea. Toss in a big hnm who's spawn is completely random. Could take 45 minutes, could take two weeks. Safeguards against holding. Similar to tiamat, but more random.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cichy

Yeah and a group without bots could come in and just claim a Fafnir Yay! No one would try to steal their claim or mpk them. They had fun!
You might be the most delusional and ignorant person in this thread yet.
You said you got plenty of claims, that means your linkshell botted, and your gear was obtained through bots.
Dont act like such a saint.
Every HNM linkshell that successfully claimed HNMs botted. Period.

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I must have had some kind of amazing ps2 to bot and get all the claims i got...

Also, I think I should add this. I helped lead an endgame LS for around a year. Sometimes we'd do sky, sometimes we'd do sea, sometimes we'd do HNM (sometimes we claimed them). We never felt any huge loss when we lost claim on an HNM or something, because our enjoyment of the game didn't depend on a certain piece of gear. Our ability to work cohesively as a group made far more difference than one paladin having a defending ring. Thus the content was completely optional. A similar level of satisfaction could be brought by force pop NMs. Personally, sky and sea were my all time favorites. This doesn't mean I didn't have a lot of fun, especially with lower level HNM like Roc or Simurgh. Sitting there 3 hours was not the most fun, as most of us agree, so we've proposed sufficient measures to fix this. Like OP said though, this doesn't mean we shouldn't keep a couple of long windows around.

The simple fact is that all content is optional. Even in XI, if an HNM dropped the best piece of gear I could have, I didn't feel like I was missing out just because I had to have AF2 instead of dalmatica (or whatever, I can't remember which was better). Similar yet different levels of "eliteness" could be achieved in XI whether you chose force pop, instance, or open world. I would like the same to be true of XIV. I would also like to address the grievances people have with XI's system in order to achieve the maximum level of support. But in the end, as everyone's said, the best way to do this is variety.

All content is OPTIONAL. If you feel like it's not, you need to take a deep breath and turn your computer off for a day.

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All content is OPTIONAL. If you feel like it's not, you need to take a deep breath and turn your computer off for a day.

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QFT

lolpeoplearegoingtoragesohard

...and even if you MUST occupy yourself will content, there should be enough varied content in the game that will keep you and everyone of other mindsets happy.

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I was loving even days like these:
POP!
....
NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Missed Nidd AGAIN!!
....
PlzWipePlzWipePlz
....
OMG! OMG! OMG! SW POP La'Theine Plateau [S]!!! GO! GO! GO!
Screw Nidd, everyone GO GO GO!
....
GDI!! Already Claimed...
....
BOOO!!!!!
OK (Gather together)(Einherjar) - Odin - 15(Minute)!

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Having your plans ruined and having to constantly fall back onto other things? You actually found that fun?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Having your plans ruined and having to constantly fall back onto other things? You actually found that fun?

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If you actually go there "planning" to get a claim your goals are a little shortsightedly unintelligent. Is unintelligently foolish enough to assume folkes literally "planned" on getting the claim fun?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Having your plans ruined and having to constantly fall back onto other things? You actually found that fun?

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To some extent, I actually do. A little bit of salt makes the sugar sweeter. Adapting to any given situation can often be more rewarding than having your plan go off without a hitch.

XIV NMs right now, for example, are all sugar. You go there, you kill it. If you don't get the drop you wait 5 minutes and try again. What's the fun in that? The lack of effort diminishes the reward.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Having your plans ruined and having to constantly fall back onto other things? You actually found that fun?

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I did find this fun as well. If the competition was fair, it was a thrill to try and claim the NM. If we lost, I cheered those who won. If they got drop, I congratulated them. It wasn't about plans being ruined, it was just about losing a competition. There's a world of difference between the two. But sure as it was, too often the joy was taken by botters and whatnot.

This thread shows well some of the differences between player's attitudes. I personally dislike the way many modern MMO-gamers want their game to always actively entertain them and they always need to succeed in everything. Call me a masochist, but I want my game to have elements that are just too hard for me to do. I like the fact that I don't always win. And I really don't see why I should feel bad if there's some content that's not withing my reach or a piece of gear that's just too hard to get. But of course, everything in moderation and I agree that FFXI was a bit too harsh on some things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hirmu

I did find this fun as well. If the competition was fair, it was a thrill to try and claim the NM. If we lost, I cheered those who won. If they got drop, I congratulated them. It wasn't about plans being ruined, it was just about losing a competition. There's a world of difference between the two. But sure as it was, too often the joy was taken by botters and whatnot.

This thread shows well some of the differences between player's attitudes. I personally dislike the way many modern MMO-gamers want their game to always actively entertain them and they always need to succeed in everything. Call me a masochist, but I want my game to have elements that are just too hard for me to do. I like the fact that I don't always win. And I really don't see why I should feel bad if there's some content that's not withing my reach or a piece of gear that's just too hard to get. But of course, everything in moderation and I agree that FFXI was a bit too harsh on some things.

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This I agree, but as you said, "If the competition was fair". The HNM competition from FFXI was far from fair, every major HNM LS on the server at one point admitted that they do have bots, it's only a matter of who has the more "advanced" bot. I don't mind losing to another fellow player, but I do mind very much when I lose to a bot, it's an unfair advantage, and I hope that SE do a better job this time to prevent something like this from happening again, if they do implement HNMs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Matsume

I don't thin ka isaw anyone mention this yet : MAKE NM/HNM DROPS CRAFTABLE (yes like uraeus Doublet) WITH HQ VERSIONS POSSIBLE PLEASE.

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Edit this suggestion into the OP please

No, that makes it pointless to farm them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hirmu

I did find this fun as well. If the competition was fair, it was a thrill to try and claim the NM. If we lost, I cheered those who won. If they got drop, I congratulated them. It wasn't about plans being ruined, it was just about losing a competition. There's a world of difference between the two. But sure as it was, too often the joy was taken by botters and whatnot.

This thread shows well some of the differences between player's attitudes. I personally dislike the way many modern MMO-gamers want their game to always actively entertain them and they always need to succeed in everything. Call me a masochist, but I want my game to have elements that are just too hard for me to do. I like the fact that I don't always win. And I really don't see why I should feel bad if there's some content that's not withing my reach or a piece of gear that's just too hard to get. But of course, everything in moderation and I agree that FFXI was a bit too harsh on some things.

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I feel the same as you do. For all the times that you missed claim on fafnir, then suddenly 1st day nid pops and you beat the others LS's to it and get double E.body. It's those moments that made everything worth it, you were so happy to be at the spot and that time. It's memories like that, that get screenshotted and people friends will talk about that for years to come. FFXIV doesn't have moments like that because content get smashed out way to quickly. There is plenty of challenge yes, but (imo), not nearly hard enough.

As per your bot statement, it has been rehashed over and over and over again, and I'm sure if we get any more newposters in this thread, they won't take time to flip through, and will start an argument based on bots all over again (phew, so many commas).

None of us want bots. We are striving for a competitive, clean, bot/cheat free HNM system. We have alot of people saying that it's not possibly, but I think we all the plans that we have rolled out, that it is not only possible, it is higher than likely.

@Matsume: Added to the OP under "Drops" (I added the word "Some" however, because I don't think that ALL drops should be like that, but I'm sure you would agree. Variety!)